1971 Boss

[donkost]

OMG! Sault Ste Marie Ontario! How did I miss that?! Sault?! Is that supposed to be a pun, lol. Now i'm REALLY nervous. I probably got screwed again. When will I learn?! I actually have a set of mint original F6015 Goodyear Polyglass GTs with 1972 date codes I was planning on putting on my 72 R code convertible when it gets finished. I like the idea of the Firestone Wide Ovals with the radial tread. The car might not be worth the investment in new tires if it was ravaged by the Sault in Ontario! Oh well, I'll sort it out when it gets here. If it doesn't get here, I guess it's Ebays" problem! By the way, I told the wife and she's OK with it for now. I told her it was a "great investment, lol."

BTW, can you send me a copy of the Marti Report, and how did you have it already? Can you PM me your phone number? Sounds like we need to talk. Thanks!

Oh I'm sorry for the confusion- I was talking about my own '71 429 CJ-R 4 speed car originally being from Sault Ste Marie Ontario, and my Marti report.  I mentioned how this eBay 429 SCJ C6 car would not have had a rev limiter from the factory since those were only installed on 4 speed cars.  Then I was rambling about my car for a bit, including the Firestone Wide Oval radials that are available now.

 

[kevken1959]

OMG! Sault Ste Marie Ontario! How did I miss that?! Sault?! Is that supposed to be a pun, lol. Now i'm REALLY nervous. I probably got screwed again. When will I learn?! I actually have a set of mint original F6015 Goodyear Polyglass GTs with 1972 date codes I was planning on putting on my 72 R code convertible when it gets finished. I like the idea of the Firestone Wide Ovals with the radial tread. The car might not be worth the investment in new tires if it was ravaged by the Sault in Ontario! Oh well, I'll sort it out when it gets here. If it doesn't get here, I guess it's Ebays" problem! By the way, I told the wife and she's OK with it for now. I told her it was a "great investment, lol."

BTW, can you send me a copy of the Marti Report, and how did you have it already? Can you PM me your phone number? Sounds like we need to talk. Thanks!

Oh I'm sorry for the confusion- I was talking about my own '71 429 CJ-R 4 speed car originally being from Sault Ste Marie Ontario, and my Marti report.  I mentioned how this eBay 429 SCJ C6 car would not have had a rev limiter from the factory since those were only installed on 4 speed cars.  Then I was rambling about my car for a bit, including the Firestone Wide Oval radials that are available now.

Great Don. Thanks! I will call you later. Kevin.

 

[73pony]

This is a scam.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Last year a group was doing scams like this and the FBI I think tracked over $25,000,000 in funds taken as deposits and payments on false ads. The money gets transferred to an account and the funds are pulled from off shore. They never catch anyone and not money back.

There are times that these are true and not scams for sure. I have several I purchased at way below market value on Craigslist and Ebay both.

I am negotiating on the 72 Q code Cougar right now at a very low price. He was actually going to drive it to my home the other day and it rained.

Also on to a 1965 mustang coupe that has been in storage since 1982, 289, auto, air, console and all original factory interior. He is stuck on $5,000 but I am probably going to hook up the dolly and go there this weekend and take $4,000 in cash and see if I can come back with it. I already have is sold for double if he will do the deal.

You never know but plane tickets are cheap and do the deal face to face or not at all.

Another thing I ask people to do is to take a picture of them holding a $5.00 bill in front of them and send. Also you can research their info on the net pretty easy if you have full name, age and city they live in.

Hope both are real, lol.

 

[73pony]

See pic he sent me. This is how I know it is a scam for sure. The door tag VIN does not match the last 6 digits in the upper right corner but those do match the one for sale in NC. I noticed and posted in the thread of Kevken on the 429 as the guy made the exact same mistake. I believe it is the same person or group.

 

[kevken1959]

See pic he sent me. This is how I know it is a scam for sure. The door tag VIN does not match the last 6 digits in the upper right corner but those do match the one for sale in NC. I noticed and posted in the thread of Kevken on the 429 as the guy made the exact same mistake. I believe it is the same person or group.

THIS GUY IS SO GOOD. I ASKED HIM TO SEND ME A PIC OF BOTH SIDES OF THE TITLE WITH HIS NAME ON IT. HE DID SO. I FOUND OUT THE VIN IS THE ONE WITH THE LAST NUMBER CHANGED AND I CALLED MARTI. 1F05J173077 DOES NOT EXIST!! I WIRED THE $25K INTO AN ACCOUNT WITH HIS NAME, ARLEM JONAS

 

[jpaz]

Oh man, this really sucks! Sorry this happened and hopefully Ebay will refund your money.

 

[kevken1959]

Oh man, this really sucks! Sorry this happened and hopefully Ebay will refund your money.

Thanks Jpaz. In hind sight there were all kind of red flags hitting me in the face. I was blinded by the hope of believing I had found a really good deal and I so wanted to believe it was true. I'm going through the claim process with Ebay insurance now. I'll keep everyone informed. I couldn't convince ebay to pull the ad on the yellow Boss351. We found out here on the forum that the email the seller was using was "[email protected]" on both of those ebay ads. I think this is a network of several people working together. Ebay said that the above email was not linked to any account that they have on file. I guess that means that the two accounts linked to these two fraudulant ads were hacked. It's funny, because Ebay is telling me to leave feedback and that they can take action, i.e. close the two accounts, but I don't think those account holders have a clue what's going on. I spent a lot of time on the phone with the seller/scammer, and I can say he had a harsh middle eastern accent. His response to many questions seemed to be rehearsed, like he had been at this a very long time. The kicker was when I asked him to produce a title with his name on it showing ownership of the car and within 10 minutes of the request he did so. I told him I would buy the car if he did so, and I felt like I had to proceed once he complied. He gave me just enough reassurance in his response to my questions to "suck me in. It was a lesson, to be sure. He even "helped" me find a great shipping quote although that too was surely a lie.

        '

 

[NOT A T5]

Oh man, that's a bummer. Sorry you shelled out that money for this "seller". Hope you'll get back every dollar!

 

[kevken1959]

Oh man, that's a bummer. Sorry you shelled out that money for this "seller". Hope you'll get back every dollar!

Thanks NOT A T5. I thought I'd post my reply in the complaint with Ebay insurance for advice and to critique. I hope all can see this in the reply. It gives a good description of what happened in this case. I am hopeful the insurance will cover me:

Detailed Explanation of Complaint

Seller submitted a fraudulent Ebay posting by "photo shopping" information from a car that had been sold on the internet (1F05J173074). In our communications, he changed the last VIN number of that car from 4 to 7, creating an imaginary car with the VIN 1F05J173077. He then submitted supporting documentation of this car with the altered VIN number to me by email in order to fool me into believing that he was the legal owner of a car with the VIN number 1F05J173077. I was skeptical he owned the car so I told him by email that I would proceed with the purchase of the car through Ebay if he could provide me with pictures of a Washington State title in his name proving he was indeed the owner of the car. To my surprise, he promptly did so, so I agreed to enter a bid of $25,000 on the car after he reposted it on Ebay with the understanding that he would accept my bid and end the auction with me as the winner. Within hours of winning the auction yesterday, I wired full payment as per the "sellers" instructions. After receiving the funds, the "seller" was cordial and "helped" me obtain a shipping quote (something that obviously was a lie).  Excited at having bought the car, I posted details of the transaction last night on the "7173mustang.com website. Shortly thereafter members pointed out to me that all the documentation I had received from the "seller" had been photo shopped, even the title he had provided to me. They also pointed out a current Ebay ad for a Boss 351 Mustang (eBay item number 202573725782) with similar alterations in the VIN number that also used documentation from a prior  sale. We determined that the email my seller was using was the same email that the seller of the Boss 351 was using. It was at that point that I concluded that the seller had stolen my $25,000 and had no intent of delivering a car to me. Today, I contacted Marti Auto Works, a company that has a database of the VIN numbers of all of the Mustangs ever produced. They reviewed the paperwork I submitted to them and identified all the documents that had been photo shopped. They also concluded that there was never a Mustang with the VIN number "1F05J173077" produced, however there was a vehicle with the VIN 1F05J17304 produced and it was the one that had its' paperwork fraudulently photo shopped and submitted to me by the "seller" in order to steal my $25,000. I immediately contacted my bank to try and have the wire overturned, but that was unsuccessful. I contacted the "sellers" bank (BOA) but they could not help me. I contacted the local FBI, but they could not help either. I am counting on Ebay insurance to cover my claim and return my money to me. Sincerely, Kevin Kennedy.

 

[73pony]

Looks like a good reply to me. Also PM Sent.

 

[JimB73]

I'm really surprised that Ebay or any other platform for selling items that have a large dollar amount doesn't have something like an escrow account that the buyer can put money into.  The seller would only be able to access the funds once delivery has been confirmed or something like that. If there was an intermediary service that monitored the transaction and coordinated the transfer of funds with the delivery agent it could help reduce the possibility of this type of scam. With all the technology currently available it seems this could be easy done. IS there anything like this in the market today? Even if there was a small fee it would be better then losing the total amount. Hearing what happened in the situation makes me really leery of ever doing any large purchase on an online platform.

 

[73pony]

I have purchased several large ticket items off ebay as well as sold them. I have always only been willing to place a modest deposit and pay the rest in person upon pick up in person. I also use those terms when selling items of higher value. Maybe it is just me but the price of a trip somewhere or an airline ticket far out weighs the potential cost of fraud.

 

[kevken1959]

I'm really surprised that Ebay or any other platform for selling items that have a large dollar amount doesn't have something like an escrow account that the buyer can put money into.  The seller would only be able to access the funds once delivery has been confirmed or something like that. If there was an intermediary service that monitored the transaction and coordinated the transfer of funds with the delivery agent it could help reduce the possibility of this type of scam. With all the technology currently available it seems this could be easy done. IS there anything like this in the market today? Even if there was a small fee it would be better then losing the total amount. Hearing what happened in the situation makes me really leery of ever doing any large purchase on an online platform.

That is a really good suggestion Jim and I totally agree.

 

[kevken1959]

I have purchased several large ticket items off ebay as well as sold them. I have always only been willing to place a modest deposit and pay the rest in person upon pick up in person. I also use those terms when selling items of higher value. Maybe it is just me but the price of a trip somewhere or an airline ticket far out weighs the potential cost of fraud.

Hi Jason. I get your point. The problem on the other side as a seller I can recognize is being burned by "buyers" who just want to "kick the tires" after a purchase or worse just seem to enjoy wasting peoples time. I have sold a lot of cars and I can tell you it can be just as frustrating for a seller to try to sell a car on Ebay or any other auction service. It's a hassle and costs money to relist an item after a winning bidder never replies or someone with "buyers remorse" walks away from a deal with only the risk of being out a few hundred dollars. It can be a tough situation either way, buying or selling. It's like a game that has to be played well on either side. With my job I don't have the time to travel. And Plane tickets are getting extremely expensive. We don't have direct flights to anywhere from our airport in Birmingham. If a car was within 3 hours of me however, I'd find a way to do the transaction in person. I will say, however, that if I find a deal across the country again, somehow I will have to find a way to do the transaction differently from the way I did this one. I started out right trying to find someone to check the car out first. Next time I will probably work harder to make that happen. One thing is for sure. I will never proceed with a transaction again if I sense any problem with having the ABILITY to inspect a car the car first.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I think it was Hagerty that sent me a message about the scams for cars last year. There was over $25,000,000 scammed and the FBI recovered an astounding ZERO. It is done from foreign countries and when the funds are transferred the money is pulled out and sent to off shore accounts.

This is one of my wild thoughts. Ebay and Craigslist are the ones doing it. They have all the info and control everything. I saw the comment about people buying on ebay and never close the deals. I always look at the bidders and their history. Most bidders are JOKE bidders and they just run the price up. Could it be that is Ebay is doing that also to try to increase their share. I have sent numerous emails to ebay trying to get them to require you to put a $500 retainer up before you can even bid on a big item. If you win goes toward the cost if you loose you get it back. They want no part of that.

They could be the ones taking all the money and trying to get the prices higher.

I only one time paid without going to see the vehicle. I got the car no issues. We had over 70 emails with lots of extra pics so I knew for sure he had the car. I used PayPal also. The last one I bought I did not pay until I laid hands on the car in Dearborn Mich. Heck you can drive about anywhere in the U.S. in 50 hours. I have like 20 airline tickets in American Express miles.

I would never do a deal like these two were for sure. I have had people take more pictures of them standing in front of the car and hold a dollar bill to show it was there, lol.

I was emailing someone in Atlanta on Craigslist on a 65 Mustang that had been stored since 1982. Lots of options but had a tree limb fall on it and bent the roof. I could never get more pics he was sick or no way to take them. When I wanted to come take a look he was sick in hospital then I was going tomorrow and he has family sick now. Would not give me address to GPS wanted to meet at a grocery store. Which I would not do either would worry about stealing the car.

In my area apartments and rentals are scarce. Big issue with Craigslist and scams on apartments. They have to have a deposit before you can come and view or to hold it until you come. There is no apartment...

I do not and will not send money. I will meet them at bank and have bank do the title and pay for the car there. If they will not do that then I am not interested.

I still think they should investigate ebay and craigslist for possibly them being the ones taking the millions.

Food for thought.

 

[MikeGriese]

Way back when eBay used to have or partnered with an escrow service. I can't find any mention of it on the site now. My guess is that it was easier and less expensive to just provide guarantees to buyers. Escrows would involve additional fees that would have to be paid by someone.

 

[kevken1959]

I think it was Hagerty that sent me a message about the scams for cars last year. There was over $25,000,000 scammed and the FBI recovered an astounding ZERO. It is done from foreign countries and when the funds are transferred the money is pulled out and sent to off shore accounts.

This is one of my wild thoughts. Ebay and Craigslist are the ones doing it. They have all the info and control everything. I saw the comment about people buying on ebay and never close the deals. I always look at the bidders and their history. Most bidders are JOKE bidders and they just run the price up. Could it be that is Ebay is doing that also to try to increase their share. I have sent numerous emails to ebay trying to get them to require you to put a $500 retainer up before you can even bid on a big item. If you win goes toward the cost if you loose you get it back. They want no part of that.

They could be the ones taking all the money and trying to get the prices higher.

I only one time paid without going to see the vehicle. I got the car no issues. We had over 70 emails with lots of extra pics so I knew for sure he had the car. I used PayPal also. The last one I bought I did not pay until I laid hands on the car in Dearborn Mich. Heck you can drive about anywhere in the U.S. in 50 hours. I have like 20 airline tickets in American Express miles.

I would never do a deal like these two were for sure. I have had people take more pictures of them standing in front of the car and hold a dollar bill to show it was there, lol.

I was emailing someone in Atlanta on Craigslist on a 65 Mustang that had been stored since 1982. Lots of options but had a tree limb fall on it and bent the roof. I could never get more pics he was sick or no way to take them. When I wanted to come take a look he was sick in hospital then I was going tomorrow and he has family sick now. Would not give me address to GPS wanted to meet at a grocery store. Which I would not do either would worry about stealing the car.

In my area apartments and rentals are scarce. Big issue with Craigslist and scams on apartments. They have to have a deposit before you can come and view or to hold it until you come. There is no apartment...

I do not and will not send money. I will meet them at bank and have bank do the title and pay for the car there. If they will not do that then I am not interested.

I still think they should investigate ebay and craigslist for possibly them being the ones taking the millions.

Food for thought.

All great points David. I'm getting a real education. I've been too naive and trusting and guess I should be lucky this hasn't happened more often to me. I know I will be way more careful in the future. Thanks for the input. Kevin.