360 Swap Questions

[73Grande/Mach1]

Is it really a muscle car if it doesn't have a big block? No. Which is why I'm doing an engine swap from my 351 Cleveland to the 360. My first question is if anyone has done the 360 swap and what that might entail? (ie. motor mounts, wiring, any mods to the engine bay to make it fit).Also, I was planning on putting a t5 behind the cleveland but, now that I am going with the 360 I was curious if anybody has run this engine/trans combo and if you know of a bellhousing that will mate these two and what kind of flywheel/clutch combo I would need. Any input is appreciated thanks.

Update: found a bellhousing that will allegedly connect the engine and tranny will put link. Also, if you have any opinions on the swap or comments let me know I am not fully committed to the idea just getting a really good deal on the engine.

http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8426614-bell-housing-for-ford-fe-360-390-427-428-to-ford-tko-t5.html

 

[MotoArts]

360?

Or 460?

I don't think anyone makes a bellhousing for that combo. A stock 460 would eat a stock T5 in short order, I'd think.

Thinkin' the only modern big block 5 speed is from '73-98 style F250-350 2WD trucks, but could be wrong. Not the best for performance applications.

 

[73Grande/Mach1]

360 I would never try to put a little T5 behind a 460

 

[Totalled]

360 FE...? Like... the truck engine...?

Don't bother. Low compression turd. A stock 2v cleveland will walk it.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Muscle car is an American term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving." A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for street use and occasional drag racing.

Having said that, the 'requirement' for a proper muscle car to have a big-block is a low-value personal standard (just ask the Boss 302 owners).

Since the main ingredients for a fast car are: Traction and 'Horse-Power-To-Weight Ratio,' you'll need to punch that engine out for some serious power, because you're adding more weight up front, which will negatively affect Traction and HPTWR.

Building a balanced car is the key, because what good is "big block power," if you can't put it down effectively?

Build it how you like - we'll be happy to tell you what we know and what we've learned over the years.

My own personal opinion: putting in an FE 360 "just so you can say you have a big block" is kind of the weenie way to do it. I mean, is it that important to say "big block," even though you've only added 9 cubic inches of displacement and effectively downgraded your engine? I'm saying that because you said you're sticking with a T5 behind a "big block 360," but wouldn't if you had some "real power" - might as well throw on a "Type R" sticker while you're at it. I think you're better served by punching out and/or stroking that 351 - some of the guys here have had outstanding results doing just that - my 351C-2V is good for 400-ish with the stock heads and crank, for that matter. A stroked Cleveland would certainly make the power, as well as give you the "big block numbers and words you're looking for" when bench racing with the people who seem to think that's important.

 

[Don65Stang]

Be glad and proud if that 351c..

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-the-amazing-351c-4v

Or send it to me and I will.

 

[73mach1]

i'd trash the 360 idea.There is no advantage over your cleveland,like eric said that's alot of work for 9 more cubic inches.If you want a bigger motor go with a 460 or stroke your 351c.

 

[Totalled]

360's are pretty much a good block donor for building a 390 or 410.

 

[secluff]

The 360 was a low revving, heavy, truck only engine Ford designed for moving weight. It would put an unbelievable amount of weight over the front wheels of an already front end heavy car. To find original performance FE parts would pit you against early Mustang, Cougar, Fairlane/Torino, etc owners looking for concours correct parts who are willing to spend big $$. There are reproduction FE parts, but they are not cheap.

If you insist on a big block go with the 429/460 engines. Engines, parts, and swap over information is in an abundant supply.

Like Don said, "BE proud of that 351C". The 351C is a very formidable engine that waxed a lot of a$$'s in just about any class of racing you could think of. And you would likely spend less money since you already have a "C" engine.

Good luck with your project. And if you don't go with the 351C and Don decides he doesn't want it so he be proud of it, send it to me and I'll show it some "love". )

 

[MeZapU]

I've seen a 390 in one of our cars and it was a dog in stock trim. It pretty much needs attention everywhere. Intake, camshaft, exhaust, rockers, the motor mounts, oil pan, etc. It all adds up to much more money than building a mild 351c that would easily outperform it, with much less hassle. And those FE engines are heavy.

 

[Totalled]

Be fair. They're only about 100-150 more than a cleveland. They are lighter than a 385 series.

 

[flstf09]

360 is a big time turd.It would be just as much work or less to do the 429/460 swap.Even if I got a free 360 I wouldn't touch it.That 351c will flat destroy any 360.

 

[Paul of MO]

360 is a big time turd.It would be just as much work or less to do the 429/460 swap.Even if I got a free 360 I wouldn't touch it.That 351c will flat destroy any 360.

Please do not disrespect big turds. To compare the lowly turd to a ford 360 is unfair to the turd.

I would put in a 350 Chevy before I would try to use a 360.

Actually I would try to use an actual turd before I used a 360.

- Paul

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Paul, tell us how you really feel

 

[Totalled]

360>351M

 

[Mesozoic]

360>351M

Ok, so this comment quoted above along with any Ford-Edsel series engine in a '71-73 Mustang is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. The FE engine is extremely antiquated and while there are ways to make tons of power out of an FE block, it's not worthwhile for a myriad of aforementioned reasons. Not to mention that you'd be ridiculed by folks at cruise-ins and other meetups for choosing an FE block over a Cleveland design.

Then, there is this comment about a 360>351M. Clearly, someone doesn't understand the difference between a 351C and a 351M/400 engine. M blocks are heavier duty Cleveland castings that are the result of the engineering evolution of the 335-series engines. Original Clevelands had smaller main journals and shorter deck height than the M series engines (3.0" journals, like the 351W). A 400 M block can be stroked to 435 without issue and reliably crank out over 700 hp using stock components. What never happened at the factory was the installation of 4V heads on a 400 block, but if that happened... watch OUT!

 

[Totalled]

I said 351M, not a 400. Stock v stock, a 360 makes more horsepower and torque. I perfectly understand the differences between the C, M, and 400.

215hp @4400rpm and 327lbs-ft@2600rpm for a 360, 196 horsepower SAE net at 4000 rpm and 327 lb·ft at 2400 rpm

vs

A "High" of 161hp @3,400 in 1977, a low of 138hp @3,400 in 1980, and 263 ftlbs @2,000 for the 351M.

My post above was in reply to calling a 360 a turd, being an insult to a turd.

Don't get your 400ci panties in a bunch.

 

[Mesozoic]

I said 351M, not a 400. Stock v stock, a 360 makes more horsepower and torque. I perfectly understand the differences between the C, M, and 400.

215hp @4400rpm and 327lbs-ft@2600rpm for a 360, 196 horsepower SAE net at 4000 rpm and 327 lb·ft at 2400 rpm

vs

A "High" of 161hp @3,400 in 1977, a low of 138hp @3,400 in 1980, and 263 ftlbs @2,000 for the 351M.

My post above was in reply to calling a 360 a turd, being an insult to a turd.

Don't get your 400ci panties in a bunch.

LOL, yes, in stock trim, either engine is a turd. However, if you install a non-retarded timing chain you'll get all the power back. I have a 400 in my '79 Bronco and after installing an OEM replacement cam from Crane and a Cloyes roller timing set straight up the engine dynoe'd at 300 hp using all stock parts and heads. I would think if you did the same thing to a 351M and dropped a set of 351C heads on it, you'd be in business.