Advice needed before removing Quarters

[Remington]

Hey this is my first post and I'm looking for advice!

I am replacing the both floor pans, the roof skin, two rear quarters, outer wheelhouses, taillight panel, deck lid, trunk floor and rear crossmember on my 71. I just received all the new metal. My question is: does the car need to be braced in any way before removing the roof and the quarters? The car is on Jack stands. It has both floor pans in it. I am not sure how much these pieces add to the structural integrity of the car. Just want to be safe before doing anything. Or should I do it piece by piece. i.e. Install the roof first before moving on to the quarters. Any advise would be helpful!

 

[johnwanzel]

I think I would as a precautionary measure. Put in support bars side to side and possibly front to back in the door area. Also make sure that the car is completely level. I think I would do one quarter panel at a time and one floor pan at a time that will help you with keeping the body strong and straight.

 

[Mister 4x4]

The roof shouldn't be a big deal, since the A & B pillars and rear window frame pretty much stick the car together in that area.

I did the same thing you're talking about (minus the roof skin and not 'full' quarters) and didn't use any bracing, except for between the frame rails just ahead of the rear cross member. I also took some measurements between the inside of the trunk surround and top of the frame rails (with and without the trunk pan - it came out in pieces) before I cut the tail light panel. I was expecting a big "pop!" or "boing!" or something weird, but it never happened, but I took those measurements again and no change (whew!). After cleaning all that up and treating the inside of the frame rails with Rust Bullet, I removed and replaced the rear cross member (with the brace still in-place) - no worries. Then installed the new trunk pan, followed by the tail light panel (except for welding up the sides where the quarter panels are fastened) and took the measurements one more time - no change. Then cracked a beer and felt good about everything.

After that, I tackled the quarter panel and outer wheelhouse replacement one side at a time.

I'm sure you could probably tear the whole thing apart and it might be OK - but I like only taking those sections apart one at a time, simply because the car is together now, and those parts should be able to come out and go back in without much, if any tweaking by themselves. If you pull everything, you'll most likely need to use bracing [that'll probably be in your way] to keep the measurements straight. The most critical, IMHO, is making sure 'something' is keeping the integrity of the frame in the trunk area. A brace parallel to and near the cross-member will keep the side-to-side proper, and well as the tail light panel and/or the quarter panels keep the top-to-bottom measurements straight.

There are tons of pics in my Facebook album linked below.

As for alignment of the actual panels with a list of the gotchas and tips & tricks, QCode351Mach (Scott) has a bunch of very informative videos and threads regarding these things found in the "Chassis, Body Repair, & Paint" Tutorial section.

This is a perfect picture to illustrate the actual unibody structure of the car under that sheet metal. Notice even Toby Halicki kept the trunk surrounds and tail light panel in-place when he completely stripped this car to become Eleanor.

Hope that helps!

 

[Mister 4x4]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot - I did my floor pans also without any bracing, and the car was sitting on its wheels as well (sitting on a drive-on lift, that is).

Having it on jack stands is no problem. If you put the jack stands under the rear axle and front suspension, you won't have to worry about putting any unnatural stress on the unibody structure, since the car is already settled to the suspension. That's just my thought on it. On a 'vert, that might be a different story. But a Coupe/Fastback, I'd just boost it up under the suspension, rather than support its weight on a hard frame surface and might spring out of shape when you cut something loose.

 

[Remington]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot - I did my floor pans also without any bracing, and the car was sitting on its wheels as well (sitting on a drive-on lift, that is).

Having it on jack stands is no problem. If you put the jack stands under the rear axle and front suspension, you won't have to worry about putting any unnatural stress on the unibody structure, since the car is already settled to the suspension. That's just my thought on it. On a 'vert, that might be a different story. But a Coupe/Fastback, I'd just boost it up under the suspension, rather than support its weight on a hard frame surface and might spring out of shape when you cut something loose.

Thank you so much for your reply! This is a big help. Also the pics on facebook were great. It gave me hope that It can be done! It's easy to get discouraged sometimes with an overwhelming project like this. I'll probably be friending you so I can ask you questions as the come up! haha

 

[Mister 4x4]

My pleasure! ::thumb::

Pulling these things apart can be really intimidating if you've never done it before. Having someone 'in your corner' to help with advice and encouragement is huge. I'd never done anything to that depth before, and I made a few minor rookie mistakes along the way and was fortunately able to correct them as I went along... but having the guys here behind me ready with the excellent advice and encouragement was HUGE for me.

The big thing to remember is take your time, measure as often as you can and record the results so there's no confusion when you compare them later. Take lots of pictures and most importantly: when you expose an area that's otherwise inaccessible, make sure to take the time and treat for rust and prevent future rust as well. Once you button it all back up, you won't be seeing those places again (hopefully), so taking that extra step while you're in there is well worth the extra time.

You got this! Keep us posted on your progress and don't worry about how many questions come up - we love this stuff and enjoy sharing information and our experiences to help a fellow member fix/maintain/restore their "Clydesdales."

 

[basstrix]

I'm in a similar situation with my 72. I need to do tail light panel, trunk floor, trunk drops, drivers side fender aprons, and decided to do one sub-quarter that was poorly repaired by previous owner. Not nearly what you're planning, but still intimidating....I have all sorts of experience on the mechanical side, but very little with paint & body.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I do not take this as lightly as others do. These cars are very flexible and with lots of rust and panels missing yes they do move around. I myself would have taken to a frame shop and had it check out to see if it was square to start with. These cars are very flexible.

Do a search on the site and I have posted the chassis measurements from the Ford manual a couple times before.

Any twist or incorrect position of a panel will translate into fit issues in the future. These were held to about 1.0 mm at the factory and I doubt that you will be able to do that without a jig to position the body/chassis correctly.

Without a frame every piece of the underbody including the quarters and roof are a structural part.

Doors need to be in place to check gaps before welding it all back together also. You need a really level floor so you can measure everything.

I know some got lucky and things fit but I also see some of the horror stories on youtube where nothing fits.

I went and looked at a car that had floors, trunk, cowl and quarters replaced. They did not do it right and it was more or less a parts car would never have looked right or made a good car.

Is this car something special? Why would you not look for a better chassis to start with. I have seen almost rust free 6 cylinder cars go for a few hundred dollars on craigslist. I myself have parted out cars with less rust. When you replace all those panels the value of the car goes to a resto mod without original metal with factory date codes.

My opinion and others will have theirs.

One of our members has quite a few videos on replacing panels do a search on here and youtube.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'm in a similar situation with my 72. I need to do tail light panel, trunk floor, trunk drops, drivers side fender aprons, and decided to do one sub-quarter that was poorly repaired by previous owner. Not nearly what you're planning, but still intimidating....I have all sorts of experience on the mechanical side, but very little with paint & body.

Easy-peasy, Brutha!

After removing the rear valance, gas tank, and pretty much everything from inside the trunk (electrical and otherwise), I'd start with measuring the exact location of the forward gas tank mount (get measurements from frame reference points, since the trunk pan won't be there when you put it back in). Carefully pull the trunk latch bracket, taillight panel, trunk drop-offs, and trunk pan. Then clean up the frame rails, make any repairs to them as necessary, and check out the rear cross member - if it's good, then prep the insides of the frame rails with your favorite rust inhibiting epoxy coating (I like Rust Bullet) and install the new trunk floor pan. Make sure to get the full size pan (there's a short and long version), if you're going for the full pan replacement. Don't forget to punch holes in the flanges of the frame rails, so you can 'plug weld' the trunk pan to the frame rails themselves. Once the pan's in, you should be able to slip the drop-offs into place and get those taken care of (don't bother welding up the drop-offs to the sub-quarter you'll be replacing, of course). Once that's all done, you can either hit the sub-quarter replacement, or put the new taillight panel in.

Don't forget to use seam sealer in all the joints as well. You don't want to ever have to do this again.

I know it sounds really easy when you read it quickly, but it's really not that bad. The quarter panels themselves being welded to the wheelhouses, as well as the wheelhouses being part of the uni-body frame structure, you shouldn't have any issues with something collapsing or anything like that. If you saw the pics in my Facebook album (link in my signature) you'll see that for a whole weekend I had no trunk floor pan, drop offs, or taillight panel connected up for that part of the operation - nothing went bad, either.

Don't forget to take measurements from various places and record them. You'll be SO happy when you compare at the end and everything's just like it's supposed to be. ::thumb::

 

[Mister 4x4]

I do not take this as lightly as others do. These cars are very flexible and with lots of rust and panels missing yes they do move around. I myself would have taken to a frame shop and had it check out to see if it was square to start with. These cars are very flexible.

Do a search on the site and I have posted the chassis measurements from the Ford manual a couple times before.

Any twist or incorrect position of a panel will translate into fit issues in the future. These were held to about 1.0 mm at the factory and I doubt that you will be able to do that without a jig to position the body/chassis correctly.

Without a frame every piece of the underbody including the quarters and roof are a structural part.

Doors need to be in place to check gaps before welding it all back together also. You need a really level floor so you can measure everything.

I know some got lucky and things fit but I also see some of the horror stories on youtube where nothing fits.

I went and looked at a car that had floors, trunk, cowl and quarters replaced. They did not do it right and it was more or less a parts car would never have looked right or made a good car.

Is this car something special? Why would you not look for a better chassis to start with. I have seen almost rust free 6 cylinder cars go for a few hundred dollars on craigslist. I myself have parted out cars with less rust. When you replace all those panels the value of the car goes to a resto mod without original metal with factory date codes.

My opinion and others will have theirs.

One of our members has quite a few videos on replacing panels do a search on here and youtube.

You offer some good advice, but don't be mistaken - none of this was "taken so lightly," as you say.

Checking it for proper frame alignment is something you can do yourself with the correct information at your disposal. QCode351Mach provided me with factory chassis drawings, and the measurements were pretty close... before I took anything apart. I measured, and measured, and measured before taking any steps. Then measured, and measured, and measured again along the way... followed up by more measuring once done. The car is dead on as outlined on the chassis drawings, which would've been 'just fine' if they were within 3/16" tolerance, again, according to the factory chassis data.

As bad off as my car was, I literally had nothing to lose, so I replaced the front clip. Then the floor pans, then cowl pieces, then the trunk, taillight panel, quarters, and everything else that needed to be done. I did not simply 'get lucky,' either.

Was it a special car for me? Not particularly, unless you count it being the only one within 250 miles - West Texas is a LOT different than anywhere back east, where there are plenty of hiding places to find pretty much whatever you like with reasonable prices.

The person on this site you speak of is Scott, or QCode351Mach... and he knows his stuff and has been very generous in sharing his advice and encouragement with the group.

Bottom line: if you want a concourse-quality vehicle or something to sell to someone who wants a concourse-quality vehicle, then by all means find the best one you can afford and dump all your money into getting it 'done right' by a professional. If you want a nice, safe, project car that will be 'just fine' because it's not particularly valuable to anybody but you, then take a chance on yourself and have fun rebuilding your car.

 

[basstrix]

Great info and very encouraging. Thanks!