C6 conversion to Toploader 4 speed

[Manu Mach1]

Hello,

 Since last weekend I think about rebuild my car with a Toploader instead of the C6

I understand that it's not a simple thing to do, but as the car is almost naked, it's a good opportunity to do that. Also I prefer to drive with a manual transmission, this is personnal, everyone has his own preferency.

I have a Toploader, from a 67 Mustang (RUG M), 28 splines, but with the 14" tail housing, instead of the 17", so the axle shaft I have should be too short... maybe...

What is needed:

-clutch

-clutch bell,

-fork

-shifter

-transmission mount

-transmission cross member

-28 splines yoke

-clutch and brake pedals...

-flywheel, bolts...

Thank you for your comment, based on your experience or ideas,

Manu

 

[Hemikiller]

RUG-M is a '67 390 wide ratio transmission, which has a longer shorter input shaft than a small block toploader. You'll need to swap that out. The particular tailhousing you have will determine which shifter installation kit you need to order, post a pic of the driver's side. Since the input swap necessitates dropping the cluster gear, you'll want to add a rebuild kit to your list.

You'll want a pedal support assembly with the clutch & brake pedals that is the same year of your car if possible. There were minor changes to the steering column bracketry. Power or manual doesn't matter, as you can use your existing pedal by trimming down the pad.

To add to your list:

speedometer cable & gear

pilot bearing

clutch fork boot

shifter boot

Z-bar with bushings, clips, mounts, springs and rods

reverse light harness and switch

Image of the 71-73 clutch linkage from the MPC below, also attached as PDF for easy printing.



71-73clutch.pdf

 

[tony-muscle]

You can use the pedal assembly of an auto car. You just need to get a clutch pedal bearing kit and the pedal itself.

Edit: you can cut your brake pedal to fit the smaller pad used with the clutch. I have an extra pad i think if you want it.

For the bearing kit i used Scott Drake's.

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[Hemikiller]

You can use the pedal assembly of an auto car. You just need to get a clutch pedal bearing kit and the pedal itself.

Very true, I always forget those are available. A cable conversion is also a possibility. 

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/1971-73_Mustang-Cable-Clutch-Conversion.htm

 

[tony-muscle]

You can use the pedal assembly of an auto car. You just need to get a clutch pedal bearing kit and the pedal itself.

Very true, I always forget those are available. A cable conversion is also a possibility. 

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/1971-73_Mustang-Cable-Clutch-Conversion.htm

Correct. I installed MD's cable kit and their pedal as well. Not that difficult after you get the pedal assembly out. I removed the steering column and drivers seat when removing the pedals.
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[Manu Mach1]

That means that I don't need the Z bar if I choose to use the cable kit?

Well sounds good, I will find a Toploader with the 17" tail housing if that can be more simple for me.

Here is pics from this 67 Toploader, and you can see as well the input shaft from the Toploader I rebuilt for the Mach 1 Sprint from Mexico, with 17" tail housing, I can see the difference, but the input looks shorter on the RUG-M than the other one...

 

[tony-muscle]

That means that I don't need the Z bar if I choose to use the cable kit?

Correct.

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[Hemikiller]

That means that I don't need the Z bar if I choose to use the cable kit?

Well sounds good, I will find a Toploader with the 17" tail housing if that can be more simple for me.

Here is pics from this 67 Toploader, and you can see as well the input shaft from the Toploader I rebuilt for the Mach 1 Sprint from Mexico, with 17" tail housing, I can see the difference, but the input looks shorter on the RUG-M than the other one...

I got it bass-ackwards. The 390 input is shorter than the small block unit in the pilot bearing length. There is an available extended pilot bushing, but they really don't work well. 

Need a pic of the tailhousing, so we can figure out the shifter arrangement. The Galaxy 17" tail might work, but you would have at tough time with the shifter. I think the costs associated with that and locating the tailhousing and output shaft would be far more than a driveshaft.

 

[Manu Mach1]

I will go with the cable, but it is ok with a Toploader and factory 351C bell housing?

Then if it's more easy with a Toploader with 17" tail housing, I will find one. Don't know if it's possible to extend a drive shaft, but sure it's possible to shortened it. Plus if it's too complicate for the shifter as well...



mettre une image en ligne

 

[Hemikiller]

OK, that's what Hurst refers to as the "433" Toploader and you'll use the parts for the 67-69 390/428 Mustangs. The shifter comes out in the same location so it'll work fine in a 71-73.

Shifter - 391-3180

Install kit - 373-5587

Set the shifter up with it bolted to an engine stand outside the car so it'll be all adjusted when you install it.

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/499012-67-390-mustang-top-loader-hurst-shifter-question.html

-

 

[Manu Mach1]

OK, that's what Hurst refers to as the "433" Toploader and you'll use the parts for the 67-69 390/428 Mustangs. The shifter comes out in the same location so it'll work fine in a 71-73.

Shifter - 391-3180

Install kit - 373-5587

Set the shifter up with it bolted to an engine stand outside the car so it'll be all adjusted when you install it.

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/499012-67-390-mustang-top-loader-hurst-shifter-question.html

-Very cool thanks  

 

[Manu Mach1]

Hi,

I receive a quotation from Modern Driveline. The cable kit can be used with a new bellhousing that fit T5 or other modern trans, and I want to use a Toploader. The only way could be to use an hydraulic system.

At the mean time I receive a message from a member that propose me a set of pedal and Z bar. So I think I go for it.

 

[Manu Mach1]

Is Marti report could give sometimes mistakes? My Mach1 vin is 3F05Q......

Marti report says that this car came with  front brake dics but I have drums, with power booster.  

As a great member propose me a set of pedal with the Z bar, how could I be 100% sure this will fit on my car? I know some of you guys did this swap ...

 

[mjlan]

The MD cable setup is intended for use with the 5.0L T5 bellhousing and fork as Fox body Mustangs used a cable setup so the bell and fork are designed that way. You can’t use your Toploader with a 5.0L bell as the T5 bell’s trans bolt pattern is different and the T5’s input shaft is longer.

71-73 pedal supports interchange, BUT- there are differences in the supports for cars that had tilt steering columns and differences at the firewall for cars that power brakes. You can compare photos if you don’t know what kind of car that other support came out of, but you should be able to get it to work.

Also- I don’t think 71-73’s used a long tail trans, I’m 99% sure hat all mustangs used a 24” long gearbox, only full sizes (Galaxies, Ltds) and 70-up Torino’s, Rauncheros, Fairlanes, falcons used the 27” box.

I may be wrong but I think this is the case. You may need a new driveshaft simply because your swapping auto for manual...

Good luck!

-Matt

 

[c9zx]

Just one guy's opinion but, if you are using an "Long Style" clutch stay with the mechanical linkage, ie. Z bar, rods, and bushings. Chuck

 

[Manu Mach1]

Some update.

I finally go for a Toploader, as my rear end is 3.25, I'm afraid about the 5th gear front a TKO. Anyway, I found, and I am luck for that, a RF D2AR-7006-CB W1, need a complete rebuild. The Hurst shifter is with the trans. Plus a bellhousing (explosive proof) plus the starter, and all this is 125 miles from me! I pick up that next saturday.

I will receive a set pedal + Z bar (thanks to MeZaPu).

Also, I found a pair of D1ZF-DA (2A11), actually I don't need, but it's not everyday I can find those for 250 US Dollar.

 

[SVO2SCJ]

Just glanced at your list (first post) but now reading ....you have a chance to get a complete set much better IMO.

You will also need, Flywheel, pilot bearing, hardened bolts for trans, frame mount and rubber mount, speedo cable (or at least the 4 speed end) reversed light switch and harness shifter upper and lower boot and drive shaft 50 3/4 inch.

Mark

 

[Stanglover]

Manu, if I may make a suggestion that will greatly help reduce the amount of effort needed to push the clutch down, before you install the pedals, buy the clutch shaft bearing kit from Mustang Steve and have it installed. Scott Drake also sell a kit, but I preferred the Mustang Steve kit. Sorry I don't have any pics of when I did mine.

I also bought bronze bushings to replace all the plastic garbage Ford chose to use on the original set-up. This modification made a HUGE difference to the pedal pressure. I also used the Centerforce II 11" diaphragm clutch, but there are many choices in clutches, but I have found the Centerforce very adequate with a stockish 351 C 4V. 

If you do not have machining skills or capability, It would be worth paying to get this mod done, your left leg will thank you!!

All the best with the mod.

Geoff.

 

[tony-muscle]

This is a thread I started about installing the clutch pedal and bearing:

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-bearing-kit-for-clutch-pedal