Distributor and Ignition Info Thread

[Cwithers]

I don't mean to over analyze here but the statement made about points wearing and causing your timing to advance is purely false. As your points close up due to wear, the timing will actually retard. Personally I would not purchase a product in which a error such as this is made. If they really know distributors I don't think they would make this mistake... That said, I recently converted my original stock point distributor to the pertronix ignitor 1. It starts faster, idles better, no longer backfires on deceleration, and is just generally BETTER. As a matter of fact it idles so much better, I had to turn the idle speed down slightly because it was trying to diesel when shutting it off hot. I did not change plugs, wires, gaps, or anything. I have installed several of these units in marine and street distributors over the years and I'm still wondering why I waited so long to do my own.

 

[71_resurrection]

I agree with everyone in that this ad seems a bit off. Also that the Pertronix is the way to go. I put in an ignitor 2 like 12 years ago with a 40k volt coil and it has done nothing but run great. This is on an original 302 as well. I have since changed the plugs a few times, but not due to anything with the setup. I would say 100% go with a pertronix drop in, well worth and much cheaper than this ad.


Links for you:

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor2/default.aspx

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/coils/40000_volt.aspx

Hope this helps!

A word of advice, don't go spend the extra money on fancy spark plugs, I have run autolite plugs in mine for years and they work great!

 

[JimNiki]

Well, we've pertronix I and II recommendations and now I'm giving the III's the thumbs up.

I bought it mainly for the easy adjustable weight springs among many other things.

 

[4Vforever]

The distributor in that listing are based exactly off the Bosch type electronic ignition distributor used here in Australia from 79 (XD) until the end of production of the Cleveland here in Australia. There has been a fair bit of discussion about these distributors on different forums here in Australia, with different reviews, some good, some bad, but one thing that is often agreed on with these cheaper "Bosch" type distributors is that the module seems to be main problem with them. Again same thing, some good reviews saying had no problems and been drama free, then others saying nothing but problems with them, but have replaced the module with a proper Bosch one and has been trouble free. So the main consensus is that replacing the module with a Bosch one and these distributors seem to be fine. I personally bought one of these when my Pertronix gave up the ghost, I dropped it in and it ran fine and had no problems with it at all, until I put the Pertronix kit back in my old distributor again. I ran that distributor for a while until I could get the time to do the swap again. So your main problem may be getting a proper Bosch module for it over there in the U.S. if the one in this fails, but you could order one over the net from a supplier here in Australia if needs be. Hope this helps.

 

[Sharky]

Excellent advice and info from all. I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge and willingness to help out others. I'm going to rip into it tomorrow and figure out exactly what I have and then figure out where I'll go from there. It sounds like the pertronix of some sort is the most tested and trusted way to go. More info coming soon and then I'll pick what parts exactly to go with.

 

[jpaz]

I also have a Pertronix unit in my stock distributor. Working great!

 

[72HCODE]

a Pertronix III is a bad idea if you have a factory Tach.

the I and II are compatible with factory Tach.

the III will not work with the factory Tach.

the only difference between the I and II is they added in a Dwell change. when the car is cold the Dwell is suppose to open which increases timing slightly and as it warms up it closes and retards slightly. it is suppose to help with cold starts. Personally i don't think it does anything and i've run a P1 and P2 and noticed no differences. the P2 is a little smaller then the P1 and the P2 is suppose to use a more up to date solid state switch internally. both use the same magnetic ring for the pickup and both use 2 wires from the distributor over the factory 1 wire.

i've seen both the P1 and P2 fail and i've seen a magnetic ring go bad and cause misfire.

the PIII uses some kind of newer signal wave that the factory tach cannot read properly so the tach gives crazy readings or it doesn't work.

 

[Spike Morelli]

The cheapest distributors I could find are from Rock Auto, $48 from World Power Systems (??) or $64 for a Cardone reman.

...........This is just MY personal experience, but I made the mistake of buying a remanufactured distributor, from a reputable auto parts store, and had the drive gear shear the roll pin a handful of times on the highway. each time, I would tow the car back to a garage, where the gear's pin was replaced. Eventually, the last time it occurred, I decided to look into the problem. As it turns out, rebuilders commonly replace the drive gear by pressing a new gear into place, and re-drilling the pin hole ( which is off-center ), so that the pin hole in the shaft is slightly enlarged where the pin exits the shaft into the gear. Likely how things started to go bad. From that point, the pin sheared a few times after, each time, the gear spun on the shaft, making the press-fit less and less, exaggerating the problem. To fix all this, I took a center punch and punched all around the gear area of the shaft to "expand" the shaft's o.d. for a tighter press fit, then put some red Lock-Tite on the area, and pressed the gear on the shaft into place. Further, I drilled the 1/8th" roll pin hole out to 3/16ths and installed a heavier pin. THEN...I drilled another 1/8th" roll pin hole 90 degrees to the original pin hole, just below, and double pinned it. I could now run 90 wt oil in my engine at 7000 rpm without that damn gear coming loose, probably, not that I would ever, but I've never had that problem since . Moral of the story.....remanufactured distributors can have inherent problems here, so be carefull of buying these bargains. For the record,....I have been running 20/50 with a high-volume/high-pressure oil pump for the last 15 years now without a problem since I fixed it. It has 70 lbs cold, 40 lbs hot at idle...., and 70 lbs hot running down the highway.

 

[Elizabeth73]

I also have the Pertronix conversion in my stock distributor to get rid of the points, along with the flamethrower coil. I have had it installed for about two years and have yet to have any issues. It took ten mins to install. I recently changed the old spark plug wires as well and I think it made it even better.

 

[Totalled]

I'm a fan of triggering an MSD box off of a duraspark distributor.

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Hello. Sorry this will be a very newbie question i'm sure! I am looking to get the pertronix ignition conversion. Funds are limited but i would like to do it as best as possible. The current distributor is loose so i'm replacing that as well. The car is stock except for a different cam from what i understand. I do not know the details of the cam or if it was ever replaced, just what i heard.

I am planning on replacing the distributor and the coil since the coil is old and i have read it's a good idea when moving to pertronix. I am planning on just the cheaper single point pertronix but is there a benefit going to the II or III?

I was looking at summit and notice pertronix also made the distributors with the ignitions included. And then Summit has a distributor, the blueprinted HEI's but thats all different correct? Would one of those be the way to go or should i just stick with a factory replacement distributor? i am guessing with the factory ram air i would need dual vac correct?

So i guess my question would be if it was your car and considering how often it's driven what would you do? If you had 300 max to spend on it? Thanks

The car is driven maybe 1k miles per year during the summer and that's it. 1973 Mach 1, ram air, 351c, 4bbl, automatic

 

[Dave73]

I am using the flame thrower distributer. With Pertronix II. Love it.

I don't know what they changed from II to III but as long as there installed correctly they work awesome.

Never hook it up backwards. That was a $100 lesson I had to learn my self. Make sure the power is only on when ignition is in the run position. Not the Acc position. If left powered up while car not running it will fry the igniter. Other then that they are no maint. I would not bother with the HEI distributer. No gains from it. Running the ignitor and hot coil will allow you to run a .065 plug gap. Larger hotter spark = more complete burn.

If you ever decide to go with a rapid fire ignition box then you'd switch to the HEI distributer.

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Thanks Dave! just to confirm are you also using the flamethrower II coil? I will definitely remember the advise on the Acc position! I did not realize that about the gap so thanks for that as well! did you replace plugs and wires with your setup? i'm not sure which wires i even have since they are braided hose and have been on the car forever. might be best to replace them anyway.

 

[72HCODE]

if you have a factory tach do not get the III it is not compatible.

P1 or P2 the only difference is a dwell change on cold startup.

either one of these is fine. make sure you use a compatible coil.

Do not gap to .065, do not gap to .040 it causes way too many issues for most people use stock gaping of .035

use stock oem, plugs and oem wires(reproduction from marti is good) do not use any aftermarket ignition wires as they are garbage.

most aftermarket plugs are garbage as well.

remember you will need a timing light to check initial timing after making the switch to electronic and if you messed around with the plugs and wires.

if the car is running correctly now, then check initial timing BEFORE touching anything for a baseline.

also take a idle RPM reading before messing around.

mark the initial timing down on paper or mark the balancer on the motor then reset to that initial with the vacuum advance capped and the idle a little low to make sure there is no mechanical advance kicking on. once initial is set then bring the idle back up to the level you marked before you started.

then plug the advance back in and go for a ride.

 

[Don C]

You can get a replacement distributor from Rock Auto for around $60. I would get the single advance, unless your DMV emissions inspection won't allow it, the ram air works with either one. The Pertronix 1 with a stock coil should work fine for your application. I agree with 72HCODE about the plugs and wires.

 

[Thin Lizzy]

Just had a Pertronix 1281 fitted to my car today and it's transformed it, it's running really smooth now.

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Thanks everyone for the advice! I may just go ahead and go with a replacement distributor, pertronix 1, stock coil and then replace the plugs and wires. No emissions testing where i am so single will work for me then. I know the wires are old at least and i've always thought or had better luck with the oem type plugs and wires. however if i choose a flamethrower coil would that cause any issues? i read something where the stock coil may not produce enough voltage for the pertronix. i figure if the flamethrower wont or shouldn't cause issues then i may as well get that to be safe. Thanks

 

[Mister 4x4]

I know a lot of the guys here have had good luck with the Pertronix modules, coils, distributors, etc. It's a solid upgrade from points, IMHO.

I went a step in a slightly different direction - Duraspark ignition conversion. Using a Cardone replacement distributor, Duraspark Blue Grommet ignition module, and a conversion wiring harness from NPD, the new set-up provided me something not always available for Pertronix cars: I can go to any auto parts store and get replacement components off-the-shelf. It's a crap-shoot as to whether they have the Pertronix modules or not.

The biggest benefit from using the Pertronix module and/or Duraspark upgrade is being able to keep using your Ram Air air cleaner without any kind of modification - most of the other aftermarket distributors (especially HEI-based) have much bigger diameter caps, usually requiring modification to the Ram Air air cleaner to fit.

Good luck with it - getting rid of those points (without being outwardly visible) is an awesome modification.

 

[72HCODE]

the petronix flamethrower coil is designed to work with the P1 or P2 or P3

it has to do with internal resistance with the coil.

now it is a high powered coil which might cause radio noise interferance with the OEM radio.

you cannot get a normal oem coil any more they are all high output coils.

"I read something where the stock coil may not produce enough voltage for the pertronix."

not the coil, the feed wire to the coil will be under 12 volts usually because of the resistance wire. the resistance wire dropped the voltage to the coil and thereby the points which helped keep the points from burning up.

this lower voltage feeding the P1 or P2 or P3 causing a low voltage issue on some cars for the solid state electronics triggering the spark.

this causes erratic spark due to low input voltage to the electronic ignition, due to the resistance wire. some cars are ok using the original coil wire and resistance wire some are not. the cars that have problems require a ignition switched on 12v jumper wire usually coming from the alternator STAT post to the positive wire of the P1 or P2 or P3

 

[73mach1whiskey]

Ok thanks and i see what you are saying about the wire, and my radio bit the dust a long time ago so no issues there well i would like tunes but would rather spend the money on other things for the car. Well i was pretty sure about the pertronix route but i do like the idea of the duraspark now also. it will be a few days before i purchase the parts so i'll think on it. any other suggestions please let me know. Thanks again everyone!