First Start Attempt

[Mark Jones]

Well, I made my first attempt at starting the new motor for the first time. No luck! It tried to start. A couple of cylinders fired at random but nothing. My buddy and I thought we weren't getting any fuel, so I quickly installed an electric fuel pump so that issue was eliminated. Still no joy!. My buddy thinks it's carburation and I think it is ignition. The reason I think it is ignition is this..... When I bought the car, the previous owner had removed the points and installed a Mallory UniLite ignition module. I have never used one so I am not real familiar with it. Also, the module has been in the car for some time and it did work before the engine grenaded (Prior to my ownership). When I test the ignition voltage with the distributor module disconnected, there is 12 volts at the coil, through the ballast resistor and at the red wire to the distributor module. When I plug in the distributor, the voltage at the ignition switch side of the ballast resistor is 7 volts and everywhere else is 5.6 volts (at the coil, the distributor and the outbound side of the ballast resistor). BTW, the coil is original.
I can remove the #1 plug and rotate the distributor to get the plug to spark. I can see it visually spark.
The initial timing is set at TDC, I have fuel because the accelerator pump is squirting. Starting fluid doesn't help, and the #1 spark plug seems to be sparking. I am taken back by the voltage drop. I wouldn't think that the UniLite module would create such a load to drop the voltage like that. Does anyone have any comment. I am tempted to just buy another distributor with an electronic module built in.

 

[Steve McMahan]

First, I think TDC is too late for ignition timing, I would set it at 10 BTDC. Try starting it at that setting. If you still get the same results, I would pull the center wire from the coil feed to the distributor, and crank it to see if you have a continuous spark. If you do, then you’ve got to check the engine mechanicals if you’re sure you have fuel. Let us know what you find.

And stay dry, it’s got to be pouring at your place!

 

[Hemikiller]

When I test the ignition voltage with the distributor module disconnected, there is 12 volts at the coil, through the ballast resistor and at the red wire to the distributor module. When I plug in the distributor, the voltage at the ignition switch side of the ballast resistor is 7 volts and everywhere else is 5.6 volts (at the coil, the distributor and the outbound side of the ballast resistor). BTW, the coil is original.

This is normal. With no draw, the ignition coil (+) wire will show battery voltage ( 12-ish volts). When the module is connected, there is now a current draw through the circuit to charge the coil and the voltage will drop to 7-ish volts.

I'll agree with Steve, you need to advance the ignition timing. I normally set my new close to stock spec engines to 10° BTDC, and those with a significant cam to 20° BTDC.

Like Steve said, pull the coil wire and check for spark. If you have a consistent spark, you should be good to go. You then have spark, and by your own account - fuel. Advance the timing and crank it over.

 

[Mark Jones]

I will give it a try after all this rain slows down. The car is outside under cover and unless the rain stops, I cant do a thing. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks

 

[giantpune]

I would verify you're at the correct TDC on the compression stroke. The engine should at least try to run if you set it a few degrees before that.

You can set the engine at like 5-10 degrees before TDC, ground #1 spark plug out on the alternator bracket and wiggle the distributor back and forth so get it right when the plug is sparking.

Disconnect vacuum line to distributor and cap the connection at the carb.

Verify firing order is correct. 351C distributor rotates counter clockwise.

Make sure you can see gas squirting in the intake when you actuate the throttle.

It doesnt hurt to move your timing light to each plug to make sure they are all sparking.

If all that checks out, I'd start looking at replacing the distributor/coil.

 

[Stanglover]

For a new distributor, my choice if I had to do it again, would be the Ford DuraSpark. I can't remember the name, but there is a company that will build a DuraSpark for YOUR engine set up.
I had to learn how to rebuild and recurve my Autolite original, adding a Pertronix II and matching coil and to be honest, it was a steep learning curve, but very satisfying once done.
Personally, I'd stay away from those (Chevy) HEI things. They look ridiculous and don't work with a stock air cleaner. That's just my 2 cents worth on that.

 

[Mark Jones]

Yes, the engine was assembled at TDC and never moved until now.
I will re-set the distributor @10 degrees BTDC
I am using 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 (counter clockwise) as the firing order. Checking the internet, I get different sequences, but this one is most consistent. If I am wrong please tell me.
I will check all plug wires with the timing light. I also like checking the coil wire with a spark plug or timing light. Spark should be constant during rotation.
No vacuum advance hose attached. All vacuum ports plugged at this point. Just trying to get the engine fired ad

For a new distributor, my choice if I had to do it again, would be the Ford DuraSpark. I can't remember the name, but there is a company that will build a DuraSpark for YOUR engine set up.
I had to learn how to rebuild and recurve my Autolite original, adding a Pertronix II and matching coil and to be honest, it was a steep learning curve, but very satisfying once done.
Personally, I'd stay away from those (Chevy) HEI things. They look ridiculous and don't work with a stock air cleaner. That's just my 2 cents worth on that.

I agree, the HEI distributors are too tall and look like and Ed Roth T-Shirt. I will work with what I have for now.
I am sure I can get it running. I am sure it is some small little thing out of place like the timing or the new distributer cap I installed. After working on it for a few hours on Saturday with no results, I just threw up my hands and said "I am done", I will sort it out later. I didnt want to keep cranking over a brand new engine without it firing.
Thanks for the input though. I knew I could count on the forum to give me a new prospective.

 

[Steve McMahan]

Don’t worry, we’ve all been there. On Wednesday, the clouds will clear and you can give it another try.

 

[Stanglover]

While I'm not the engine expert, depending on your build, don't forget the correct break-in procedure. It will be different for a roller cam versus a flat tappet.
Others will give you the proper run down.
I chickened out and had my engine builder do the break-in on his rig.

 

[basstrix]

1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 is for the 351c and 351M-400
1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 is for, more or less, everything else.

This chart is from the 1971 Ford manual.

 

[Go Time]

I would verify you're at the correct TDC on the compression stroke. The engine should at least try to run if you set it a few degrees before that.

You can set the engine at like 5-10 degrees before TDC, ground #1 spark plug out on the alternator bracket and wiggle the distributor back and forth so get it right when the plug is sparking.

Disconnect vacuum line to distributor and cap the connection at the carb.

Verify firing order is correct. 351C distributor rotates counter clockwise.

Make sure you can see gas squirting in the intake when you actuate the throttle.

It doesnt hurt to move your timing light to each plug to make sure they are all sparking.

If all that checks out, I'd start looking at replacing the distributor/coil.

This is where I would start if it were me, seen it more than once.

 

[cjstaci]

If fuel and spark are good, sounds like you might have the distributor a tooth or two off or possibly 180 out. Double check TDC on compression stroke and reference the rotor to the distributor cap in the diagram.

 

[rcadd1ct]

My guess is 180 out on distributor like others have said.

Remember there are two different TDC events on cylinder one.

Take the valve cover off and rotate it. Look for the intake valve to open and close near bdc. Keep going until you are at tdc. That is zero.

Pull the distributor and reprime the oil pump.

Put assembly lubricant on the distributor gear and reinstall.

Try and refire it then.

Remember you can verify spark at each cylinder by moving the timing light trigger to each plug and see if the light flashes.

If you have a flat tappet cam, remember break in is critical.

Good luck on your next attempt.

 

[Aris]

My 351 distributor was 180 degrees out. It dosen't even try fired up that way. Just turn distributor 180 degrees and try again.

 

[will e]

If you have fuel and spark it should at least kinda try to start. Do you get any backfires while cranking?

 

[Mark Jones]

Thanks for all the help guys but as usual, the issue was something simple. A jammed up carb. I checked spark, re-found TDC, set spark @10 degrees BTDC. Nothing!
Removed the carb and the photo tells all. The carb is being rebuilt as we speak. Should have it back on the engine Friday.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

"While you're at it" drop in a new fuel filter too!

 

[Mark Jones]

Good Idea! Thanks

 

[Stanglover]

And PLEASE, NO gear clamps on rubber fuel lines. That's ok for a temporary fix or to get things working, but after that, use proper fuel line clamps.
Sorry, but this is something that makes my blood boil when I see gear clamps on fuel lines. Not only are they potentially dangerous, but they look cheap and UGLY!!!

 

[Mark Jones]

I hope fuel injection clamps will be satisfactory. That is what I usually use.