Frame connectors

[PAPPY HAROLD]

All good points Scott, but isnt that what we have been saying. I dont care who you went to a seminar with, your backing up what has been said. In your cut and paste quote it says triangulate, already been said.. Then it says the force will be sent to the roof structure, Isnt that what I said earlier.. Then it says the cowl is the ninth most imporant struture, so now we are back to the da-- miada bracket which was made to try to reduce rattles in the car. I have the site where you saw it, an old flame of mine had a Miata.

 

[Qcode351mach]

All good points Scott, but isnt that what we have been saying. I dont care who you went to a seminar with, your backing up what has been said. In your cut and paste quote it says triangulate, already been said.. Then it says the force will be sent to the roof structure, Isnt that what I said earlier.. Then it says the cowl is the ninth most imporant struture, so now we are back to the da-- miada bracket which was made to try to reduce rattles in the car. I have the site where you saw it, an old flame of mine had a Miata.

Exactley !

::thumb::

Did I ever disagree ? Except for Don saying he see's no benefit.

I don't do seminars Pap...Those are Certifications which most high end shops require a tech to have IF you want to work there...At least as a collision repair tech..Not a floor sweeper.. Now a days If you want to be a insurance D.R.P. shop no go unless your I car certified. Most of the work in production shops is D.R.P. (direct repair program for those not in the biz) I was at my friends shop the other day..Had a new Caddy Sts hit in the front..You can't believe some of the systems on the high end cars these days..I'm a firm believer in training & staying current. In the highly competitive collision business you need an edge & knowledge & training is one of them..There's still plenty of shops out there doing repairs the old way..Might fly for older cars but the New stuff.. You really need to understand the new materials..electronics..& proper repair procedures. Like everything else, technology brings change..JMHO

 

[PAPPY HAROLD]

Well I agree with Don. I see little benifit for our cars. And just for the record if needed in 1977 I was the body shop manager for DANNER BUICK in Marion Ohio and we were the FIRST drp shop in central ohio, so I know what you are saying.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Well I agree with Don. I see little benifit for our cars.

Pap..I disagree but respect your opinion which you are entitled to. It's what makes this country so great & varied ...I'm going to build a few sets of those braces anyway & maybe when you see how I do it you will change your mind. Are we having fun yet :whistling:

 

[PAPPY HAROLD]

Yea lots of fun. If you can get the design to go to the shock tower I can see some benifit, How much I truly dont know, but if ya dont try we will never know. Getting the desired feedback is the hard part of designing anything new. And how is Matts car doing? Seems like a great deal for you both..

 

[wrenchturner75]

Hey thanks guys lots of good info! my dislike of frame connectors came from owning foxbodies and after installing frame ties and still as one poster said you jack the car up and see the body still twist like a pretzel. i figured a bigger car makes the problem even worse. i do like the idea of welding the seams around panels a lot though! i do have a monte carlo bar for the car and plan on adding a crossbar to the main hoop on the roll bar. seems lot of guys here have good things to say about frame ties for these cars so ill look into the weld ins. as far as what i plan on doing with the car, i do plan on lowering and installing some suspension goodies and 17 or 18" wheels. im looking for that good handling without the bone ratteling ride type of setup. if any of you guys have a suspension setup you like id love to hear what kind of shocks, springs, suspension parts you used.

 

[whitesoc]

Scott

Just a question, would those braces be of any value for a vert? I haven't read the links youprovided but going by the flow of the comments how would it work for a vert when part of what that brace is designed for is to transfer force to the roof structure? At this point would my best options be to do subframe and monte carlo bar?

 

[PAPPY HAROLD]

Hey wrench to you I guess I owe an apoligie, I never intended on my comments to steal your post. I"m not the guru of the site and dont want to be, but if I can help in any way feel free to ask if only for an oppion.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Yea lots of fun. If you can get the design to go to the shock tower I can see some benifit, How much I truly dont know, but if ya dont try we will never know. Getting the desired feedback is the hard part of designing anything new. And how is Matts car doing? Seems like a great deal for you both..

Cool Pap it's all about fun ! Life's to short to sweat the small stuff

That's exactly what I plan to do ..tie it into the shock tower..That pic of the miata brace was just to throw out the basic concept look. Matt's car is not doing good The seller couldn't provide good papers on the car so no go...I still have a deposit on it & offered to buy just the car for parts at a MUCH reduced price..It's really a shame to cut it up very clean struture wise car...I will have an answer tomorrow

Hey wrench to you I guess I owe an apoligie, I never intended on my comments to steal your post. I"m not the guru of the site and dont want to be, but if I can help in any way feel free to ask if only for an oppion.

:goodpost:

Scott

Just a question, would those braces be of any value for a vert? I haven't read the links youprovided but going by the flow of the comments how would it work for a vert when part of what that brace is designed for is to transfer force to the roof structure? At this point would my best options be to do subframe and monte carlo bar?

Ken..Your car already has what most of the top chassis guy's are doing in the coupes & fastbacks...INSTALLING vert inner rockers...vert lower floorpan reinforcements & vert center reinforcement.. I don't see the need to do the brace I'm going to make UNLESS your planning major suspension mods. You can always benefit from subfame connectors & monte carlo bar.

Hey thanks guys lots of good info! my dislike of frame connectors came from owning foxbodies and after installing frame ties and still as one poster said you jack the car up and see the body still twist like a pretzel. i figured a bigger car makes the problem even worse. i do like the idea of welding the seams around panels a lot though! i do have a monte carlo bar for the car and plan on adding a crossbar to the main hoop on the roll bar. seems lot of guys here have good things to say about frame ties for these cars so ill look into the weld ins. as far as what i plan on doing with the car, i do plan on lowering and installing some suspension goodies and 17 or 18" wheels. im looking for that good handling without the bone ratteling ride type of setup. if any of you guys have a suspension setup you like id love to hear what kind of shocks, springs, suspension parts you used.

You had to ask

 

[TheJ]

This thread is quite interesting. What would you guys say is the best bang for the buck way to stiffen up the chassis? Sub-frame connectors? Monte Carlo bar?

Thanks for looking.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Matt's car is not doing good The seller couldn't provide good papers on the car so no go...I still have a deposit on it & offered to buy just the car for parts at a MUCH reduced price..It's really a shame to cut it up very clean struture wise car...I will have an answer tomorrow

Does your state have provisions for a Bonded Title? The guy I bought mine from was a reseller, and the previous owner had lost the title long ago, so that's the route I have to go. All I've really got is a bill of sale at this point. I guess I should work on getting that squared away before I get too much further. It would suck to find out it was stolen or something. :s

 

[NoLimitssjca]

Great thread going here. Lot's of good information.

 

[Qcode351mach]

This thread is quite interesting. What would you guys say is the best bang for the buck way to stiffen up the chassis? Sub-frame connectors? Monte Carlo bar?

Thanks for looking.

Yes J ...at the bare minimum...But don't do it unless your suspension is in tip top shape with no worn components

Matt's car is not doing good The seller couldn't provide good papers on the car so no go...I still have a deposit on it & offered to buy just the car for parts at a MUCH reduced price..It's really a shame to cut it up very clean struture wise car...I will have an answer tomorrow

Does your state have provisions for a Bonded Title? The guy I bought mine from was a reseller, and the previous owner had lost the title long ago, so that's the route I have to go. All I've really got is a bill of sale at this point. I guess I should work on getting that squared away before I get too much further. It would suck to find out it was stolen or something. :s

You better get it squared away ! Yes you can do a bonded title..I did one car many years ago but it still took awhile & it's a big risk because if the car comes back stolen you have major problems..I had a cop friend check run the vin for me BEFORE I went through the process..It's a major p.i.t.a.

Something Matt doesn't want to deal with & neither would I

 

[will e]

My real world recommendation is if you have a convertible you want the subframe connectors right away.

More than 20 years ago I noticed when I jacked up part of the car the doors wouldn't shut. It's not a problem with the subframe connectors. I can't imagine what a car with over 40 years on it and who knows how many miles must be bending in the center.

 

[TheJ]

This thread is quite interesting. What would you guys say is the best bang for the buck way to stiffen up the chassis? Sub-frame connectors? Monte Carlo bar?

Thanks for looking.

Yes J ...at the bare minimum...But don't do it unless your suspension is in tip top shape with no worn components

They are all pretty much new or going to be new. I haven't done the front suspension yet.

 

[PAPPY HAROLD]

First of all.. Thanks to all members.. Then as far as the vert, my thinking would be unless you feel you have a structural problem as has been previuosly stated, Then put the top down and cruise in the sun. But its all relative to what your desires are and what your running.

The best bang for the buck, Yes frame connectors. Maybe the Monte Carlo Bar but again whats your plan and what are you running. These cars might be old but they wern"t designed junk. In my case as an example, I am not looking for an all out race car but I do want a kick a## street machine, I"m putting together a big block which by a couple different simulated dyno charts should be in the area of 500-525 horse with about 480 torque. Nothing super but able to make the chassis feel it. So I"m going with frame ties, the monty carlo that has the extra braces back to the shock tower. Thats all I"m doing until I see what the car tells me.

 

[marks73]

So for someone who has the rear and front torque boxes exposed to the open due to floor replacement. Is this the time to be looking at doing weld in frame connectors? We put bolt ins in a 71 camaro I built a 396 for that afterward would open the door on the opposite side you were turning the corner when you really hit it. They worked quite well for 84 technology and did their job. I agree bolt in on 40 year old cars would not be the way to go now. Anybody got a good line on weld ins?

 

[PAPPY HAROLD]

OK Mark this would be my humble approach. While its open I would try to fit my connectors and get everything where I wanted it. Then I think i would go ahead with my floors. And then come back and install the connectors. My reason being sometimes floors take alittle massaging and tlc to get them aligned properly, so I would feel more comfortable making my floor cut after there installed instead of trying to cut them last and not being able to get a good fit and ending up with big gaps. The downside being you will need a whole on top to weld the top of the connectors. So your decision Everybody has preferences as to how to preform a task. Ya know what they say, MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE..

 

[72fastback]

I wish some of you guy's lived closer. I can't see myself doing all that work. I don't have the knowledge you guys have but I wish I did. I will trade my how to create a killer thrash metal band knowledge for some of your car related knowledge. Any takers? lollerz

hahaha just kidding. The knowledge and enthusiasm on this forum is awesome keep it up.

And PLEASE more Eastern Canadian members

 

[marks73]

OK Mark this would be my humble approach. While its open I would try to fit my connectors and get everything where I wanted it. Then I think i would go ahead with my floors. And then come back and install the connectors. My reason being sometimes floors take alittle massaging and tlc to get them aligned properly, so I would feel more comfortable making my floor cut after there installed instead of trying to cut them last and not being able to get a good fit and ending up with big gaps. The downside being you will need a whole on top to weld the top of the connectors. So your decision Everybody has preferences as to how to preform a task. Ya know what they say, MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE..

Cool, got a line on good connectors? At this point, I have no problem cutting and patching a hole. even (and especially) in new metal.