Hurst on toploader issue

[erikroy57]

I got a 4 speed toploader RUG AV1, with a hurst competion plus on a mach 1 1973 with a 351C.

I have installed the ford mounting bracket D1ZA-7E046-BA, and the hurst braket #3176.

The fit is different, the shifter angle is different.

Why are they different ?

Which one is the right fit ???

 

[Thomas]

I got a 4 speed toploader RUG AV1, with a hurst competion plus on a mach 1 1973 with a 351C.

I have installed the ford mounting bracket D1ZA-7E046-BA, and the hurst braket #3176.

The fit is different, the shifter angle is different.

Why are they different ?

Which one is the right fit ???

So this is the angle of an org Ford Hurst.

 

[erikroy57]

So then my question is, why do hurst have manufacture a bracket that put the shifter to a different positon ??

 

[Stanglover]

That looks like it could be from something other than a Mustang. The bottom picture from Thomas looks the same as my 71 with a flat stick and offset. Of course the shifter you got with the box could be the wrong one, plain and simple.

Here is a picture of a 71. I'm not too familiar with a 73 stick, but it is different and more rounded. The shifter boot for a 72-73 has a round hole whereas the 71 has a rectangular hole.

You might also check that the tailstock is the correct length. I think you can get this info, by good 'ol Google.

EDIT: I think I know what the issue is. Is the one you have an aftermarket Hurst Shifter? It looks like one I bought from Summit Racing a couple of years back, supposedly for the 71-73 Mustang. It is TOTALLY wrong for the Mustang although it might fit if you don't want a stock look. The problem is the Ford factory linkage rods will not work with it and you need the aftermarket set as well for an extra 200 bucks or so. I sent mine back for a full refund and stayed with my original worn out shifter. Talking of, Hurst do offer a rebuild service. Look up Hurst Shifters Online rebuild service, for the address to ship it to. If I recall, it is about 200 bucks IF they can rebuild it. They will not take anything that has been altered or welded other than factory.

Thought this might help.

 

[erikroy57]

You are right, it is an aftermarket shifter, supposingly for 71-73. You then confirm me what i was thinking, the aftermarket mounting kit put the shifter at the wrong position vs the original.

 

[Stanglover]

You are right, it is an aftermarket shifter, supposingly for 71-73.  You then confirm me what i was thinking, the aftermarket mounting kit put the shifter at the wrong position vs the original.

Okay. It is a case of "well, it looks like it might fit, so I guess it will be work", rather than being an exact reproduction of the original for a specific application. This happen way too often with reproduction stuff. It get listed as 67-73 but in reality it is no where near correct for our years. It really screws us up when ordering online and when we can't actually see the part in question. Why reputable companies do this is beyond me, makes no sense and just causes frustration and is bad business.

I would return the shifter if you can. If not, you may be stuck with reworking it to the pictures posted. Alternatively, you may be looking for an original and good luck with that!

 

[mjlan]

That shifter will work fine if you use the right mounting kit, but as was stated the OEM shifter/ bracket/ linkage is totally different than the aftermarket Hurst Competition Plus. The aftmarket shifter is going to come through the floor at a different angle and is going to look a little different but it should work fine.

I think it boils down to personal preference and how difficult it is to find the OEM parts if trying to run the Ford setup. The aftermarket shifter is a fine piece and fits most Fords of the mid sixties, it just uses model specific mounting kits...

 

[Stanglover]

That shifter will work fine if you use the right mounting kit, but as was stated the OEM shifter/ bracket/ linkage is totally different than the aftermarket Hurst Competition Plus. The aftmarket shifter is going to come through the floor at a different angle and is going to look a little different but it should work fine.

I think it boils down to personal preference and how difficult it is to find the OEM parts if trying to run the Ford setup. The aftermarket shifter is a fine piece and fits most Fords of the mid sixties, it just uses model specific mounting kits...

 Sorry, but have you actually tried to use one on a Mustang? When I got that same item, even IF I'd know at the time I needed to buy the linkage kit, which I was not informed about by Summit Racing, there is no way in hell it was going to fit right in the Mustang. The offset is totally wrong for the floor consul let alone the angle of the stick was wrong as well and it is far longer than the factory Hurst stick. It might fit a truck, but not a Mustang. I guess though some people just don't care and good enough is good enough. Hmmm!

As for the mechanical side of it, probably it is good, but when one considers the shifter cost plus the cost of the linkage kit, it would be far higher than getting an original rebuilt or buying a reman directly from Hurst. These are getting scarce and not always available.

Sorry, but it just pee's me off when these manufactures put out crap and try to dump it on us with " well, it should fit, it's for a 67 -73 something" Why can they not just do it right, but then there's cost involved and the almighty dollar talks.

Oh! one more thing, If I'm remembering correctly, there is no back-up light switch mount on the aftermarket shifter. If I'm wrong on that, I stand corrected.

 

[mjlan]

I haven't put one in a 71-73, but had one in a 69 Cougar which isn't too different.

You are correct that the stick is longer and doesn't sit at the same angle as the OEM shifter. I assume that this is due to Hurst spec-ing one shifter assembly (with a welded on stick!) for the Ford intermediates.

 

[Stanglover]

I haven't put one in a 71-73, but had one in a 69 Cougar which isn't too different.

You are correct that the stick is longer and doesn't sit at the same angle as the OEM shifter. I assume that this is due to Hurst spec-ing one shifter assembly (with a welded on stick!) for the Ford intermediates.

 First off, I'm sorry if I came on a bit strong on you. It was not my intention to offend anyone.

 I would agree that the mechanism , not the stick, would be fine as long as Hurst and the retailers advertise the shifter as needing the correct linkage kit per application, which they don't. Yes, Hurst unfortunately made this as a 'one-size-fits-all" item and it would have been much better if the stick was removable and changeable. For far less money, I could have sent mine to get it exchanged, but unfortunately, someone in the past had tack welded the stick to the socket and they don't accept anything that has been altered or damaged. There was none for sale either at that time, but I could send mine and get it repaired. For now it still works so-so and with the $ exchange rates right now, I'll live with it.

I did try to use the lower rubber boot for a 69-70 on my 71, thinking that it would be close enough, but it was no where near. There is not a reproduction lower boot made for the 71-73 that I am aware of... yet. For this reason, I have to think that the floor cut out on the 69-70 is closer to the driver's seat and therefore not as much off-set required on the shifter. The 71-73 are wider than the 69-70's, but one would think that the centerline dimensions would be the same. It's weird for sure!

 

[mjlan]

No worries.

I completely agree with you- the aftermarket CP shifter isn't optimal for the 71-73; having driven a couple of 71 4-speed cars with the OEM setup the stock shifter just feels and looks 'right,' the aftermarket one looks and feels awkward.

However, if you don't have all of the OEM parts (as was mentioned none of the aftermarket linkage will work with the OEM shifter/ bracket) or they are in bad shape, I think you can still buy the aftermarket shifter and installation kit, and it will work (maybe need to 'massage' the floor opening a little as the stick comes out close to the driver's side of the opening) to get one banging gears....

 

[Stanglover]

No worries.

I completely agree with you- the aftermarket CP shifter isn't optimal for the 71-73; having driven a couple of 71 4-speed cars with the OEM setup the stock shifter just feels and looks 'right,' the aftermarket one looks and feels awkward.

However, if you don't have all of the OEM parts (as was mentioned none of the aftermarket linkage will work with the OEM shifter/ bracket) or they are in bad shape, I think you can still buy the aftermarket shifter and installation kit, and it will work (maybe need to 'massage' the floor opening a little as the stick comes out close to the driver's side of the opening) to get one banging gears....

 Agreed, I suppose in a pinch, something is better than nothing. I guess a competent welder could cut the stick off, shorten it or re-bend it and make it look some what better, but the chrome would mostly be shot at least at the bottom. Downside of that is the heat could easily damage the mechanism and then you're back to square one.

If I/you ever get the chance to buy a used OEM shifter, get it!

 

[71fast]

I got a 4 speed toploader RUG AV1, with a hurst competion plus on a mach 1 1973 with a 351C.

I have installed the ford mounting bracket D1ZA-7E046-BA, and the hurst braket #3176.

The fit is different, the shifter angle is different.

Why are they different ?

Which one is the right fit ???

upload image free wap

My Hurst Competition Plus works fine without cutting anything.  I am thinking about making another mount and drilling a new hole where I have the X so the T handle will be closer to me.  The problem is the long throw tears up the shifter boot.

 

[Stanglover]

71fast,

That's a pretty looking gear box you have there!

It is very noticeable that with the correct aftermarket linkage, I assume it is the aftermarket, the orientation is completely different to the factory position. That alone will throw someone like me off completely. As mentioned before, I was not made aware that factory linkage would not work and I see why now. Even so, and as you mention, the long throw is still an issue.

Again as mentioned before, why do the vendors not advertise this pretty much generic shifter as needing the correct linkage kit at the time of purchase for the application. That alone would save a lot of frustration. Perhaps Hurst need to be made aware so as to have their retailers market it as such.

Having said all that, I still would not be using this in my Mach 1 as it just looks wrong, but something is better than nothing in a pinch.

Thanks for posting your picture.

 

[Duncan Mach72]

Very interesting! That arrangement in 71Fast's photo with the mech tilted backwards allows much straighter shift rods than stock style. Does it shift well?

Bye the way, you can get all the bits here:

https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com

It's not too hard to dismantle them. My stock unit was sloppy, slack in lever & detent springs gone soft. I bought a fairly new mech off Ebay that someone had cut the stick off. I used the case, springs & shims out of that to renovate mine & it's much better now.