Introduction Searching for a Sprint

[Kermit 460]

::welcome:: from Maine , good luck on the sprint.

 

[Wasagachris]

Last Chance Auto Restoration sent me a copy of the personalized statistics report from Marti.

495 Canadian Edition Sprints

411 had 302-2V engines

14 had 3- speed manual transmissions

and 5 had competetion suspensions.

This car is one of those 5.

I'll be making a trip in a week or so to see the car and discuss the plan for it.

 

[Qcode351mach]

I wouldn't be so hot to pull the trigger on a car that will only be sold unless the shop does the work in addition to a 1-2 year wait just to get started then a 2 year if not longer restoration (I looked at the car & the shops web site) That car needs everything..Your looking at least 4 years till you see it done..In that time frame lots of things can happen..For the money your going to spend I guarantee you a car will come along thats already done or needs a lot less work in that 4 year time frame..The only way I would do this type of deal is everything & mean everything has be put down on paper the most critical being start date & provisions to allow you to pull the car if any of the project time frame dates are not met within a 2 week window..As a shop owner myself I'm not keen on this type of deal..Why is it so critical he do the work ? If he has a 2 year backlog.. I can't stress enough how important a written contract with escape clauses allowing you to pull the car should things go sour or your not happy..Nothing against the shop looks like they do nice work but step back a moment clear your head & really think this through.. If you want the car that bad just ask how much it would take to buy the car with out the work..Your gonna be 50k or better into that car when all is said & done,,Give me 50k to work with & I will find a pristine one in 1 year or less !!

 

[Wasagachris]

I wouldn't be so hot to pull the trigger on a car that will only be sold unless the shop does the work in addition to a 1-2 year wait just to get started then a 2 year if not longer restoration (I looked at the car & the shops web site) That car needs everything..Your looking at least 4 years till you see it done..In that time frame lots of things can happen..For the money your going to spend I guarantee you a car will come along thats already done or needs a lot less work in that 4 year time frame..The only way I would do this type of deal is everything & mean everything has be put down on paper the most critical being start date & provisions to allow you to pull the car if any of the project time frame dates are not met within a 2 week window..As a shop owner myself I'm not keen on this type of deal..Why is it so critical he do the work ? If he has a 2 year backlog.. I can't stress enough how important a written contract with escape clauses allowing you to pull the car should things go sour or your not happy..Nothing against the shop looks like they do nice work but step back a moment clear your head & really think this through.. If you want the car that bad just ask how much it would take to buy the car with out the work..Your gonna be 50k or better into that car when all is said & done,,Give me 50k to work with & I will find a pristine one in 1 year or less !!

Thanks for the advice and I hear what you are saying.

I look at it this way, how many Canadian Sprints am I likely to find. There were only 495 of them ever shipped here and only 6 are listed on the registry which includes this one. There is another guy in Quebec who has been searching for a second car for 4 years now. I'm not getting any younger and if it takes 4 or 5 years to find one and then restore it I might be too old to enjoy it. His time frame fits with my financial plan and retirement plan too. If all goes well the car will be ready at the same time I plan to sell my business and retire. The time frame we discussed and I stated here are worst case expectations. He may be able to start earlier than that.

I won't get into specifics regarding the cost of the job but his initial ball park is much lower that you figured.

I looked at the cars currently for sale and unless I can lay eyes on them and be provided proof the work was done right I would be hesitant to spend big bucks on a car. Of the 8 for sale now on CL, 2 are basket cases, 2 have been butchered, and the last 4 claim to be restored. So lets say I buy one of the basket cases or the butchered ones. Now I need to get it shipped here and then find the time to restore it myself. Keep in mind I have one car on the go right now and three trailers waiting to be done. I'm lucky to get 20 hrs a week into a project for 6 months of the year. That's about 500 hrs a year towards each project. My current car will probably be 2 years before it's done and then the trailers will take another 4 years to complete. So if I buy one and do it myself it would be 8 years before I could start it. 10 years from now the car will be on the road.

Sure I can spend big bucks on a "restored" car but I will have to take my chances that the job is done right. I don't want a Gas Monkey car. Can I really be sure the car is restored properly without seeing photographic proof and seeing the car in person. NO and I am unable to fly all over to see cars in person.

So on to your second point about the contract. Of course there will be a contract. I'm in business myself and always get everything set out on paper with any vendor I use. If there is no contract it boils down to a he said she said situation and that is useless in court.

I still need to see this car in person and meet with the shop owner and discuss the plan. If that doesn't go well I will walk.

 

[Qcode351mach]

I wouldn't be so hot to pull the trigger on a car that will only be sold unless the shop does the work in addition to a 1-2 year wait just to get started then a 2 year if not longer restoration (I looked at the car & the shops web site) That car needs everything..Your looking at least 4 years till you see it done..In that time frame lots of things can happen..For the money your going to spend I guarantee you a car will come along thats already done or needs a lot less work in that 4 year time frame..The only way I would do this type of deal is everything & mean everything has be put down on paper the most critical being start date & provisions to allow you to pull the car if any of the project time frame dates are not met within a 2 week window..As a shop owner myself I'm not keen on this type of deal..Why is it so critical he do the work ? If he has a 2 year backlog.. I can't stress enough how important a written contract with escape clauses allowing you to pull the car should things go sour or your not happy..Nothing against the shop looks like they do nice work but step back a moment clear your head & really think this through.. If you want the car that bad just ask how much it would take to buy the car with out the work..Your gonna be 50k or better into that car when all is said & done,,Give me 50k to work with & I will find a pristine one in 1 year or less !!

Thanks for the advice and I hear what you are saying.

I look at it this way, how many Canadian Sprints am I likely to find. There were only 495 of them ever shipped here and only 6 are listed on the registry which includes this one. There is another guy in Quebec who has been searching for a second car for 4 years now. I'm not getting any younger and if it takes 4 or 5 years to find one and then restore it I might be too old to enjoy it. His time frame fits with my financial plan and retirement plan too. If all goes well the car will be ready at the same time I plan to sell my business and retire. The time frame we discussed and I stated here are worst case expectations. He may be able to start earlier than that.

I won't get into specifics regarding the cost of the job but his initial ball park is much lower that you figured.

I looked at the cars currently for sale and unless I can lay eyes on them and be provided proof the work was done right I would be hesitant to spend big bucks on a car. Of the 8 for sale now on CL, 2 are basket cases, 2 have been butchered, and the last 4 claim to be restored. So lets say I buy one of the basket cases or the butchered ones. Now I need to get it shipped here and then find the time to restore it myself. Keep in mind I have one car on the go right now and three trailers waiting to be done. I'm lucky to get 20 hrs a week into a project for 6 months of the year. That's about 500 hrs a year towards each project. My current car will probably be 2 years before it's done and then the trailers will take another 4 years to complete. So if I buy one and do it myself it would be 8 years before I could start it. 10 years from now the car will be on the road.

Sure I can spend big bucks on a "restored" car but I will have to take my chances that the job is done right. I don't want a Gas Monkey car. Can I really be sure the car is restored properly without seeing photographic proof and seeing the car in person. NO and I am unable to fly all over to see cars in person.

So on to your second point about the contract. Of course there will be a contract. I'm in business myself and always get everything set out on paper with any vendor I use. If there is no contract it boils down to a he said she said situation and that is useless in court.

I still need to see this car in person and meet with the shop owner and discuss the plan. If that doesn't go well I will walk.

Sounds like you have it all down to a T... you've thought it through, done your homework..best of luck on the inspection tentative deal.

 

[Wasagachris]

Thanks Q code 351 mach. I wouldn't mind your opinion on a few things though.

This car has already been modified from stock. It was originally a 3 spd and there is a C4 in it now. So it will never be a numbers matching car.

I want to build a close to show quality daily driver. I have no intention of building a 100 pt concours trailer queen. The car should be easy and fun to drive but I want to keep the original Sprint look.

What trans would you recommend? Keep the C4 or find a period correct 3 spd or even maybe a 4 spd?

The shop owner had a vision of dropping in a modern 5.0 L HO. I think keeping the original 302 is the way to go but maybe do it up inside. Your thoughts on that please.

The car is now manual drum brakes. Keep it original or go with front disc/rear drum and a power booster or maybe evn 4 wheel disc and boost?

He can't remember if the car is power steering or manual. Go power or keep it manual?

Originally it had the wheel covers. I don't like the look of them. Go with magnum 500's or stay stock?

Non A/C car now. keep it the same or add A/C if possible?

The interior will of course be kept as a Sprint.

The shop owner is thinking about painting all the stripes instead of decals. This includes the flag badges on the 1/4's. His thinking is longevity as the painted stripes and decals will stay in better shape than decals. The paint will be base/clear. Your opinions too please.

 

[Don65Stang]

Chris, I know you're new on here so I'd like to mention that Scott (qcode351mach) is one of the master body gurus on here. His advice is highly reguarded and worth listening to. Do a search of the threads he's made and you can see the quality of his efforts in the multitude of how to videos he's provided. His advice carrys a lot of know how, financial sense and genuine desire to help the audience get to the best possible outcome.

Having said all that, I agree that going forward with the Canadian Sprint should have a well defined escape clause. That type of deal to me is a bit scary from a guy that works in contracting. It appears that all the risk is on you in this deal. I would structure it to have set milestones that define the quality of work performed, the date that work is to be completed and the not to exceed fee amount for that specific project deliverable. It really forces you and the shop to build the car on paper from start to finish with many, many milestones along the way.

Best of luck with it. A Canadian Sprint is a very cool and rare car. I believe there are two owners on here who have a coupe of them. It might be worth your while to send them a PM asking if they ever considered selling before you do your deal with the shop. You never know until you ask. Click on Awards under the Fun Stuff tab above them click on the Canadian Sprint Shield to see who te owners are. Send me a PM if you need help with locating them.

 

[Wasagachris]

Don it's funny that you should post about Scott. I was reading some of his how to's as I got the e-mail notification about your post.

I am in no way discounting his knowledge and skill. The opposite is true and that is why I asked for his opinions about how to do the car.

That being said I'm new here but not new to doing restorations. I explained why I am considering using the restoration company to do the car.

I have already priced out most of the replacement parts for the car and am comfortable with the initial estimate. Let me tell you buying parts for a stang are a steal compared to Linc's. One door rubber will set you back $225 for a Linc and it's poor quality to boot. No sheet metal is available for Linc's so everything must be hand fabbed. You can't get repop anything for a slabside so either you repair/restore it yourself or fabricate a new part from scratch.

Thanks for the advice regarding the contract. This is exactly the kind of information I do take to heart.

I will check out the other Canuck owners but I'm pretty sure they will be like I will and won't want to sell the car ever.

 

[mweeps]

Well I spent most of today surfing the net. I found 8 sprints for sale on Craigslist. 6 are coupes and 2 are F/B's. they range in condition from a shell unrestored, a silver respray needing restoration but driving, one partially restored and in pieces, one highly modifed poorly, a good restored driver quality, a nice looking rstored one, a show quality restoration and the most expensive one is a B package Q code F/B that has been restored.

The prices range from best offer on the shell to $20K for the F/B.

I also found what is claimed to be a Canadian Sprint coupe needing a full restoration. It is only 2 hrs from me. The bad thing is they will only sell it to you if you hire them to do the restoration. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if the claim is true and what kind of money they are talking about.

BTW does anyone have numbers on how many Canadian Sprints were made?

Were all your CL finds in Canada?

No none of them were in Canada. I've tried using various search engines to do a search of Craigslist but none work well. I actually searched right on CL city by city starting in Alabama and ending in Wyoming. I looked at every 72 Mustang for sale to see if they looked like Sprints. It was time consuming but worth while as 3 of them did not have Sprint in the ad title and I would have missed them if I used the word sprint in my search.

The Canadian Sprint was found doing a google search for Sprints and it turned up on a site I've never seen before.

Yes I do that from time to time since all the good search engines fro craigslist get taken down.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Thanks Q code 351 mach. I wouldn't mind your opinion on a few things though.

This car has already been modified from stock. It was originally a 3 spd and there is a C4 in it now. So it will never be a numbers matching car.

I want to build a close to show quality daily driver. I have no intention of building a 100 pt concours trailer queen. The car should be easy and fun to drive but I want to keep the original Sprint look.

What trans would you recommend? Keep the C4 or find a period correct 3 spd or even maybe a 4 spd?

The shop owner had a vision of dropping in a modern 5.0 L HO. I think keeping the original 302 is the way to go but maybe do it up inside. Your thoughts on that please.

The car is now manual drum brakes. Keep it original or go with front disc/rear drum and a power booster or maybe evn 4 wheel disc and boost?

He can't remember if the car is power steering or manual. Go power or keep it manual?

Originally it had the wheel covers. I don't like the look of them. Go with magnum 500's or stay stock?

Non A/C car now. keep it the same or add A/C if possible?

The interior will of course be kept as a Sprint.

The shop owner is thinking about painting all the stripes instead of decals. This includes the flag badges on the 1/4's. His thinking is longevity as the painted stripes and decals will stay in better shape than decals. The paint will be base/clear. Your opinions too please.

It's a hard call for a car like this..It really deserves to be brought back as close as possible to original because of the rarity..On the other hand if you want to really enjoy drive the car then it should be updated with modern suspension drive line, creature comforts..I'd keep the exterior body shell as close as possible to stock looking..Pretty easy to have stencils made of the decals for accurate painting..then yes 2 stage paint job is the only way to go..I'd do all the under pinnings the same as my q-code.. street or track frt coil over conversion. cobra 4 wheel disc conversion 4.5 leaf 1" lowering in the rear..Ugraded larger sway bars frt & rear..matching bilsteen shocks in the rear. I did 18" wheels on mine, but I'd do 17" magnum 500's on yours to retain the exterior look..Classic air perfect fit a/c system..since the car may already have the pedals for a manual I would ditch the auto & go 5 speed..Power steering upgraded with the 12:7:1 quick ratio...Engine the original 302 of course rebuilt with a mild upgrade (cam manifold headers)

Theres my build of this car IF I was going to use it drive it as much as possible..

 

[Wasagachris]

Thanks Scott that's just the info I needed to hear. I hadn't given the suspension much though yet. I've been thinking about the large parts of the car and slowly working my way down to the nitty gritty of the smaller components. body, paint, interior, powerplant, trans etc.

I guess I have some reading to do on your build!

I've used a/c systems from Classic air before while I was working at a van conversion shop. That was back when they were real vans not these soccer mom mini vans they sell now.

 

[Qcode351mach]

Thanks Scott that's just the info I needed to hear. I hadn't given the suspension much though yet. I've been thinking about the large parts of the car and slowly working my way down to the nitty gritty of the smaller components. body, paint, interior, powerplant, trans etc.

I guess I have some reading to do on your build!

I've used a/c systems from Classic air before while I was working at a van conversion shop. That was back when they were real vans not these soccer mom mini vans they sell now.

I have a bunch more vids on youtube heres my channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/fuzzenut/videos?live_view=500&sort=dd&view=0&flow=grid

 

[Wasagachris]

The more I think and dream about this car the more I want to take it back to stock original. Sure it would be nice to update the suspension to a coil over system and add 4 wheel disc brakes and so on and so on.

Maybe I would consider such mods and updates to a plain old stang but this one is so rare it deserves to be returned to the way it rolled of the line in Dearborn back in March 1972.

I'm a stock kind of restoration guy anyway so this just sits better with me.

On that note I'm looking for a 3 speed toploader from a 1972 302 2V stang. One of the PO's changed this car to a 3 speed auto. From what research I've been doing the trans should have the data plated stamped RAN-CA1 on it. If anybody is scrapping out a 302 3 speed let me know what you have. I know the car will never be a numbers matching car but I can get close.

The current owner states that the axle looks changed to a 9 inch.

Didn't the car come equipped with a 9 inch anyway?

The axle code is 3 which according to the decoder is a 2.79:1 ratio standard differential. Experts chime in please and let me know what axle the car should have.

 

[OMS]

I have a 3 speed out of a 71

I have several 8 inch drum to drums

You do not have to make stencils for the stripes like I did in the 90's

They now make the hood decals

 

[Wasagachris]

PM sent to OMS

 

[mweeps]

Possible car for you

http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/3984874801.html

 

[Wasagachris]

Thanks for the link. I did actually find that car during my extensive CL search. It was the top of my list of possible contenders. What led me to be not too interested was the claim that it was "restored" 8 yrs ago and it's rusting out. There are no pics of the interior, probably because it is in sorry condition.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that decal too low on the 1/4?

I was also suspicious of the mark or crack? in front of the 1/4 marker light. Looks like a huge crack in the bondo when the car was "restored".

 

[OMS]

" rust spot on the trunk lid "

Maybe that should read

" some metal left on trunklid "


Saw this one the other day - do not know them or the car

http://sandusky.craigslist.org/cto/4027698051.html

 

[mweeps]

" rust spot on the trunk lid "

Maybe that should read

" some metal left on trunklid "


Saw this one the other day - do not know them or the car

http://sandusky.craigslist.org/cto/4027698051.html

looks nice I don't know how I missed that one. I also texted the guy with the 72 coupe body for sale in AL and he hasn't replied.

 

[Wasagachris]

Yup saw that one too. It was second on my list. No flys on me huh!

I was going to call on both of those cars until I spoke to the guy who has one locally. I'll be going to see it next week and talk about the restoration job. I'm waiting until I see how that goes and then maybe call on those cars and go from there.

This one looks like the best one for condition and options but it's so far away from me.

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/3965133960.html