Looking at getting CC heads, any recommendations?

[Machlovin]

Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade my 351c to CC aluminum 4V heads (currently have OC 4V heads).

I'm looking for heads that will go well with my setup which has an optimal RPM range of about 2-6K. I already have an Edelbrock RPM air-gap intake so I was thinking of getting Edelbrock 4V heads.

Anyone have experience with Edelbrock CC heads? Or perhaps another brand they prefer?

 

[turtle5353]

I am running AFD 4v heads and love them.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

I have heard that the Edelbrocks make less power than stock heads. I have also heard nice things about the CHI 4V heads

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/products/cylinder-heads/chi-heads-4v-228cc-325cfm-bare-cleveland-sb-ford-alloy-heads/87-chi-heads-4v-228cc-325cfm-bare-cleveland-sb-ford-alloy-heads.html

There is a price difference, but do it right the first time and that extra cost is in your motor, not in your pile of parts that weren't exactly right.

 

[Machlovin]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Pardon my ignorance, but are there any other changes I should be looking to make with my engine when installing quench heads?

I'm thinking:

1. Different cam more suited to the heads

2. Stud mounted roller rockers (since mine are pedestal mount)

3. Higher flowing carb? (currently a 670cfm)

My current setup:

351c .20 over w/ flat top pistons and 4v OC heads

Comp Cams 280H cam

Comp Cams springs, lifters, magnum push rods, double roller timing chain (some of these came in a kit with the camshaft).

Scorpion Aluminum roller rockers (pedestal mount)

Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap Intake

Holley Avenger 670cfm carb

Hooker Super Comp full length headers

Mallory Hyfire 6A ignition box with comp coil

Mallory Comp S/S Distributor w/ Vac advance

Melling high vol oil pump

Moroso high vol oil pan

ARP Hardware throughout

B&M 2400rpm stall converter on C6 transmission

Thanks for the help!

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Let me be a Devil's advocate for a moment-why do you want to replace your stock heads? If it is weight, then going to an Aluminum head has advantages, if it is for the closed chamber and bumping up your compression-the resulting improvement in performance will be relatively low as in hard to measure low.

I think you could throw a 750 or 800 CFM carb on the current combo and pick up a good bit of power.

If you decide to change to the aluminum heads, what is your desired power output? are you running a manual or automatic, what rear end ratio is in the car, what do you want to use the car for? and what matters to you most, power or manners?

Building a high powered motor isn't hard. Using that power is.

"Remember with great power comes great oversteer."

 

[Machlovin]

Let me be a Devil's advocate for a moment-why do you want to replace your stock heads? If it is weight, then going to an Aluminum head has advantages, if it is for the closed chamber and bumping up your compression-the resulting improvement in performance will be relatively low as in hard to measure low.

I think you could throw a 750 or 800 CFM carb on the current combo and pick up a good bit of power.

If you decide to change to the aluminum heads, what is your desired power output? are you running a manual or automatic, what rear end ratio is in the car, what do you want to use the car for? and what matters to you most, power or manners?

Building a high powered motor isn't hard. Using that power is.

"Remember with great power comes great oversteer."

Hi Jeff,

I have a C6 automatic with a 2400 stall converter, and 3.25 rear end.

My goal is to maximize my current setup. I figured high flowing CC heads would do that. Also, I have some money available to spend on "upgrades" so I figured it would be a good place to spend it.

I would like to make in the neighborhood of 450+hp, with the goal of the car being a weekend cruiser.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Those goals are easily reached with your current setup without the need for aluminum heads. Open chamber heads may actually flowe a bit better than the CC heads as a result of less valve shrouding.

I think this would get you there with a hydraulic roller cam http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=3190&gid=289

it is a hydraulic roller, so your heads will need to have the studs replaced with screw in studs and guide plates. This will require removal and machine work-if they need nothing else, this will cost about 250 in labor and parts

The roller lifters are expensive too, butthe nice thing is they can be used on another cam in the future, whereas hydraulic or solids are lobe specific and can't.

Truthfully the grind isn't that different from what you have, just a good bit more lift. You should have a similar vacuum charachteristics for brakes etc. but the roller nature will free up some power and also reduce oiling issues that some clevelands experience.

all in all a cam and all the necessary bits and pieces and head work should end up around 1200 bucks-cheaper than heads and more effective at reaching your goals. Stay away from extreme long duration cams as they become hard to deal with for casual driving.

a cheaper bang for the buck would be a 3.50 rear end or a 3.89 rear end and a 4 speed automatic transmission upgrade the 3.50 would have you close to 3000 rpm on the interstate unless you are running taller rear tires.

Now my disclaimer

I've modified a cleveland and I've built one from scratch, I've built other fords and have dealt with a handful of cam swaps. I tend to research thoroughly and then talk to people more experienced than myself. My recommendations are not that you do as I say, but that you use the information as a starting point for your own research. When it comes to cams there is no better source than the cam manufacturers. Comp and Lunati both offer great advice.

 

[Machlovin]

Thanks again Jeff. I will need to do more research. I was already "finished" with my rebuild, however there were some mistakes made during the assembly process as the person helping me wasn't experienced with Clevelands.

So now I am going to have a shop experienced with Clevelands take it apart and put it together right, and break it in for me as well. Luckily I didn't break it in yet so it is essentially still new, with the heads being fully rebuilt as well.

I figured while it is out of the car, I might as well add whatever goodies I would be adding in the future since it will be easier.

I decided to keep the stock crank since it was re-done, however I am going to upgrade the connecting rods to something stronger. What are your thoughts on this? I want a fairly solid bottom end that I won't need to mess with again in the near future and that will be able to handle the power comfortably.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

Factory rods are fine for the 450 power level- hell they are probably fine for 600+ perhaps if you are changing bearings go to the new coated bearings http://underthehood.mahleclevite.com/?p=169

Balance is something that pays huge dividends. If it was balanced before and you have seen the spec sheet leave it alone, if it was not or they tell you it was without being able to provide numbers-then get the rotating assembly balanced again. Think of your engine as 8 individual engines tied together-you want each to be as exactly made to your spec as possible- vibration is also about harmonics imagine the crankshaft flexing at each bearing like sending a ripple down a rope

whatever cam you Choose verify that the lifters are Cleveland specific

read this link about lubrication

http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/351-cleveland-lubrication/

again, it is one man's opinion-but he is very experienced with Cleveland engines and following his advice cost little more than time

I think a great purchase is http://www.cartechbooks.com/ford-351-cleveland-engines-how-to-build-for-max-performance.html

as it will explain what and why as well as give you lots of alternatives and sources. Just never read such a book after you have built your engine!

Truthfully, I believe the Cleveland stock bottom end suffered from poor rod bolts and cast pistons-those two changes and good clearances will give you a bottom end that will last many years in a 450 horse application. The heads need attention in that the factory intake valves were 2 pieces welded together and they tend to fail and destroy engines. Roller rocker arms and adjustable valvetrain are nice upgrades that reduce friction and free up horsepower-you can try and port heads, but the 4V ports are so large that there is no real point. Some people run port fillers, but below 6000 rpms they won't add any power and they are really not necessary.

You already have a 3.25 rear end and with the multiplication of torque inherent to an automatic transmission, you can keep your engine on its power band one big mistake is thinking a 4V cleveland should cruise at 1500 rpm-it just won't like it in any respect- If all of your driving results in the engine being primarily between 2300 and 6000 rpm, a stock 4V cleveland with just a few upgrades will do it all very nicely

My sister and BIL and nephew are in Toronto and we visit every year or two, driving up from Tennessee wither thru Detroit or Buffalo. Maybe someday I'll get to see your car in person

 

[TommyK]

Properly prepared, the stock rods are fine at that power level. The rod bolt nuts are the weak link in the rotating assembly and need to be upgraded. Might want to consider upgrading the rod bolts while your at it.