Looking for some paint advice

[agraff55]

I am looking at painting my car (71 Mach 1) in the next few months and am admittedly a beginner/novice body & paint man. I have had good luck so far with the epoxy primer, filler, and primer filler. I am looking for some advice on a paint system to use. My car will be bright red with the hood and rocker black out. I have been reading a lot and their seem to be many different opinions on the best system. I am leaning towards a base/clear system, but am a little uncertain how that would work with the blackout. I assume I paint and clear the car red, then come back and do the blackout? But what about clear on the blackout? I am not worried about being concours or anything, but also don't want a really glossy look on the blackout as I plan on striping the car and want those to match as well as possible. I also understand a single-stage acrylic urethane would be an option....

I would really appreciate any thoughts and/or opinions on this topic. Keep in mind I am at best a novice painter, so ease of use/forgiveness is important. Also, any insight on the step be step process others have used would also be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Ryunker]

I am doing mine with base clear, painting on the Mach1 letters and striping on the deck lid and fenders. Personally prefer it all shiny gloss everywhere as it will be easier to clean and wax. Our car will not have the blackout on the hood by choice. Pewter and black striping and bottoms black as well.

 

[Steve McMahan]

As I remember, clear comes in different glosses, not just shiny .

 

[midlife]

As I remember, clear comes in different glosses, not just shiny .

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[agraff55]

As I remember, clear comes in different glosses, not just shiny .

Ya… I guess I was wondering what people used when they did blackout… Same clear as the base color or different??? In my mind you may want a semi-gloss or gloss finish on the base color and then satin or flat on the blackout. Do people do different clear, or do they use the same clear for the whole car (base color and blackout), or something else???

 

[tpj71mach]

I have always painted my cars in a two stage base coat/clear coat for the color coat for the durability and depth of shine. I like to paint any black out areas with single stage rat rod black. I hope to be ready to paint my 71 Mach by the summer and that is my plan for that car as well. If you want to stay with a two stage, there are flat and satin clears offered that you can use also, but that will increase the build up at the mask lines between colors. I try to minimize build up by using single stage paints for any accent colors or stripes like the black outs. If you are going for a gloss look you could paint the base and spray two coats of clear and then spray the accent color and finish up with four more coats of clear over the whole panel. After it cures, you can wet sand it down so that you can't feel the transition from the base color to the stripes or accents under the clear. I used both options on my 69 Camaro and 72 Chevelle, (sorry, I don't have Mustang example pics yet) the single stage rat rod black on the the taillamp and rockers and the accent color under the clear for the stripes. It just comes down to your preference and how you want the end result to look.

 

[mrgmhale]

I had a 69 Mach 1 back in the mid 70s. I remember all to well the horror in finding a little wax that was inadvertently slopped onto the hood's blackout schema in one small area. Because the paint was flat black, and had a fairly rough surface, I could never get the wax out of the black paint. Years later I acquired a 73 Mach 1 that had been repainted by the prior owner 10 years prior. He had used Valspar Sunset, a very fine grain translucent paint that was shot over Valspar white for its candy effect. He had opted to use a Gloss Black from Valspar. Although it looked fine (attached photo), I preferred to have a blackout schema that was less glossy, akin to the flat black, light diffusing black used on fighter planes that the Mustang blackout schema was intended to be as its source of design inspiration.

We did a deep restoration of the Mach 1, which included repainting it because so many body panels had been worked on - a lot. For the paint we chose PPG Sunset Orange, a slightly darker hue than the Valspar Sunset. But, it was also a find grain metallic translucent shot over a base white paint. But, for the blackout schema we selected PPG Hot Rod Black Matte. The Matte finish provided us the reflective diffusion we looked for, yet had a smooth feeling surface. Best of both worlds. The link below id for a YouTube walk-around where all black surfaces, other than the wide and rear stripes, were shot using the PPG Hot Rod Black Matte paint. As good as the video is, seeing the car live provides a superior experience. I am very pleased with how the paint choices turned out.



The first attached photo is how we got the Mach 1, with the gloss black on the hood. The 2nd photo shows how we used a stencil for the "351 RAM AIR" call-out characters, so the underlying Sunset Orange peered out through the Hot Rod Black Matte, as opposed to using a colored stancil. We got the stripes, hood stencil, and call-out stencil from Graphic Express, using the following links:

https://graphic-express.com/product...hood-paint-stencil-kit?variant=31404200820835

https://graphic-express.com/products/1971-73-mustang-mach-1-boss-351-ram-air-hood-decal-set (when selecting the decal color, pick (PAINT STENCIL to get the effect shown in the 2nd attached photo)

https://graphic-express.com/products/1973-mach-1-mustang-complete-stripe-decal-kit

No regrets in the colors, stencil kits, or side stripe selections. It all turned out really nicely.

 

[Retired2014]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Austin Vert]

Hi agraff55,

Had to jump in on this one and give comment. The reality for me is i would love to help and pass onto you all my 43 years knowledge and experience on auto refinishing/spray painting. I served a four year training apprenticeship starting back in 1976, then became a qualified tradesman, and have spent the next 39 years constantly working in my field as an auto spray painter, perfecting and progressively learning more about my trade and honing my skills. I retired back in mid 2019.

I joined this Forum back in 2012, and started to give my help and advice to other Forum members on anything to do with auto painting, whenever a member posted a question on that topic. I have also posted many help and advice matters on other things related to the '71 to '73 Mustangs in general. Sadly though, many of these help posts have been thrown out when the Forum decided to go for several major web upgrades. I love to reach out and pass on my own knowledge and experiences to others to be of help to them. I am proud to say that as the years went on, Forum management saw the big help and input i was giving out, and kindly invited me to become a Forum tech adviser on auto painting. I took this role on with enthusiasm and ended up helping a lot of Forum members.

Sadly though, as time went on, things were changing in the World, regarding the Internet and in particular, you tube. I noticed that around the World, many people were posting various videos on anything to do with auto refinishing. Some were accurate and realistic, some were the opposite. I quickly realized that
a lot of people around the World were watching all these videos, and using them as a quick go to crash course in how to paint your car. This was to be the death of me on the Forum giving away tech advice, as i found a lot of people watching these videos got sucked in, and became overnight painting legends in their own heads. (i watched, i learned, i can do that syndrome). I was also noticing that some Forum members were beginning to challenge me on the advice i was giving out as not quite correct or accurate. Because of these two things going on, i decided to give up my tech advisor position with the Forum, and leave it all to the many that knew a lot but but helped little.

Sorry again, but it would take many hours and pages of writing to explain auto painting to you to get you on your way, and deliver a decent result. My advice would be to do as many others do, watch some you tube videos, buy some gear, and jump in a have a go at it yourself. You will certainly learn as you go along. There are many self taught heros out there to help you along the way. To conclude, and as an example of what i have said above, i have attached a document that relates to various paint problems that can occur with Acrylic Lacquer paint application. Many of these problems cross over to 2 pak paints as well, but 2 pak paint is another world altogether. I was taught all these terms back in college days and had to learn all of them as part of my trade experience. You won't find this stuff on you tube. I wonder how many Forum members know all about them? In Australia, we have a famous saying - Give it a go mate, she'll be right!

Best of luck with it all,

Greg.

 

[agraff55]

clear. I used both options on my 69 Camaro and 72 Chevelle, (sorry, I don't have Mustang example pics yet) the single stage rat rod black on the the taillamp and rockers and the accent color under the clear for t

Thanks for the info and pics!

When you use the single-state paint for the accents did you paint and clear the color on the whole car first then sand and paint the blackout areas? Or do you mask off the blackout when doing base/clear and do the blackout separately?

The look you have on the blackout of the Camaro is what I am after I think..... just wondering about the process.

Thanks!

 

[agraff55]

Hi agraff55,

Had to jump in on this one and give comment. The reality for me is i would love to help and pass onto you all my 43 years knowledge and experience on auto refinishing/spray painting. I served a four year training apprenticeship starting back in 1976, then became a qualified tradesman, and have spent the next 39 years constantly working in my field as an auto spray painter, perfecting and progressively learning more about my trade and honing my skills. I retired back in mid 2019.

I joined this Forum back in 2012, and started to give my help and advice to other Forum members on anything to do with auto painting, whenever a member posted a question on that topic. I have also posted many help and advice matters on other things related to the '71 to '73 Mustangs in general. I love to reach out and pass on my own knowledge and experiences to others to be of help to them. I am proud to say that as the years went on, Forum management saw the big help and input i was giving out, and kindly invited me to become a Forum tech adviser on auto painting. I took this role on with enthusiasm and ended up helping a lot of Forum members.

Sadly though, as time went on, things were changing in the World, regarding the Internet and in particular, you tube. I noticed that around the World, many people were posting various videos on anything to do with auto refinishing. Some were accurate and realistic, some were the opposite. I quickly realized that
a lot of people around the World were watching all these videos, and using them as a quick go to crash course in how to paint your car. This was to be the death of me on the Forum giving away tech advice, as i found a lot of people watching these videos got sucked in, and became overnight painting legends in their own heads. (i watched, i learned, i can do that syndrome). I was also noticing that some Forum members were beginning to challenge me on the advice i was giving out as not quite correct or accurate. Because of these two things going on, i decided to give up my tech advisor position with the Forum, and leave it all to the many that knew a lot but but helped little.

Sorry again but it would take many hours and pages of writing to explain auto painting to you to get you on your way, and deliver a decent result. My advice would be to do as many others do, watch some you tube videos, buy some gear, and jump in a have a go at it yourself. You will certainly learn as you go along. To conclude, and as an example of what i have said above, i have attached a document that relates to various paint problems that can occur with Acrylic Lacquer paint application. Two pack paint is another world altogether. I was taught all these terms back in college days and had to learn all of them as part of my trade experience. You won't find this stuff on you tube. I wonder how many Forum members know all about them?

Best of luck with it all,

Greg.

Thanks for the info Greg!

 

[agraff55]

I had a 69 Mach 1 back in the mid 70s. I remember all to well the horror in finding a little wax that was inadvertently slopped onto the hood's blackout schema in one small area. Because the paint was flat black, and had a fairly rough surface, I could never get the wax out of the black paint. Years later I acquired a 73 Mach 1 that had been repainted by the prior owner 10 years prior. He had used Valspar Sunset, a very fine grain translucent paint that was shot over Valspar white for its candy effect. He had opted to use a Gloss Black from Valspar. Although it looked fine (attached photo), I preferred to have a blackout schema that was less glossy, akin to the flat black, light diffusing black used on fighter planes that the Mustang blackout schema was intended to be as its source of design inspiration.

We did a deep restoration of the Mach 1, which included repainting it because so many body panels had been worked on - a lot. For the paint we chose PPG Sunset Orange, a slightly darker hue than the Valspar Sunset. But, it was also a find grain metallic translucent shot over a base white paint. But, for the blackout schema we selected PPG Hot Rod Black Matte. The Matte finish provided us the reflective diffusion we looked for, yet had a smooth feeling surface. Best of both worlds. The link below id for a YouTube walk-around where all black surfaces, other than the wide and rear stripes, were shot using the PPG Hot Rod Black Matte paint. As good as the video is, seeing the car live provides a superior experience. I am very pleased with how the paint choices turned out.



The first attached photo is how we got the Mach 1, with the gloss black on the hood. The 2nd photo shows how we used a stencil for the "351 RAM AIR" call-out characters, so the underlying Sunset Orange peered out through the Hot Rod Black Matte, as opposed to using a colored stancil. We got the stripes, hood stencil, and call-out stencil from Graphic Express, using the following links:

https://graphic-express.com/product...hood-paint-stencil-kit?variant=31404200820835

https://graphic-express.com/products/1971-73-mustang-mach-1-boss-351-ram-air-hood-decal-set (when selecting the decal color, pick (PAINT STENCIL to get the effect shown in the 2nd attached photo)

https://graphic-express.com/products/1973-mach-1-mustang-complete-stripe-decal-kit

No regrets in the colors, stencil kits, or side stripe selections. It all turned out really nicely.

Beautiful car !!

Any issues with waxing the single-state PPG Hot Rod Black paint? Sorry for the stupid questions, I am pretty new to this paint stuff!

 

[tpj71mach]

Thanks for the info and pics!

When you use the single-state paint for the accents did you paint and clear the color on the whole car first then sand and paint the blackout areas? Or do you mask off the blackout when doing base/clear and do the blackout separately?

The look you have on the blackout of the Camaro is what I am after I think..... just wondering about the process.

Thanks!

I agree with Austin Vert that there is no replacement for years of knowledge and practice. I am not a professional painter by trade, truth be told, I ran dealership service departments, parts department and body shops for over 35 years. One of my best friends (both started out together) has been a professional painter for over 35 years and I can't scratch the knowledge base he has. Over the years he has amazed me with the candy paint, flame jobs, blends and straight beautiful paint he has laid down while at the same time doing production paint for a collision center. Over the last 35 years paint and painting processes have changed tremendously again and again and he needs to keep up to date and certified on all the latest tech. Although I have painted dozens of cars, I feel very fortunate to have him there to help make sure I don't mess up when I paint my cars. I would not feel qualified to question my friend Mike's or any other professional painter's opinion.

That being said, you should not be hesitant to follow through with your plan. Like you said you are gaining a feel for the gun spraying primer and that will help when you spray the color. Just remember please, preparation is the key, a small sand scratch in primer will stand out in color. The reason paint jobs are so expensive in addition to material costs is the many hours of prep time it takes to make the surface ready for paint. Do your self a favor and don't short cut there, it's easy to fool yourself in to believing it's good enough when you know it really isn't. I think it is a great sense of accomplishment to say that you did it yourself. I see a few posts here that guys have painted their own cars, are there imperfections, sure but no one will notice them when your driving your pride and joy down the street.

Anyway, back to your question, I painted the car with the base coat and clear coat and after it cured, I masked and prepped the tail lamp area and sprayed that with the single stage rat rod black. Sorry to run on like that.

 

[tpj71mach]

I forgot to mention that to get the finish you desire, I recommend priming and block sanding multiple times. I prime with a high build primer and then block sand and then prime and then block sand again and then a final coat of primer before I prep for base coat. These doors may look like they are ready for paint but I will block them out again and then primer them one last time before I prep them for color.

Good luck I am sure you will do a great job! And you will be able to tell everyone you did it yourself.

 

[Greg]

I've had both painted and will never do a two stage on a car that never had an original two stage again concourse or not. For me the only option is the original formula. If I look at a car for sale and it has a two stage, I consider it needing a paint job. I might as well buy a lower priced car that needs paint, doesn't need a clearcoat removed and priced accordingly. My 73 still has its original paint and it still looks good. I would rather buff a car if needed than see a car with peeling clearcoat. I want my car to age like an original one.

 

[agraff55]

Question for those of you that have done the hood/rocker blackout. Did you base/clear the entire car first, then scuff up areas to blackout? Or did you prep off blackout areas before you did the base/clear?

I am thinking it would be easy enough to prep the rockers off before base/clear, but the hood will obviously require the stencil. I could probably just do a rough approximation of the hood blackout and scuff up the edges afterwards before blackout???

Any insight would be welcome!

Thanks!

 

[Hemikiller]

The factory blackout/argent on the body was applied before the body color. It was sprayed, then masked off and the body color applied. The bright trim (or double border pinstripe on side stripe optioned cars) covered the paint break line. Hood blackout was done as a completely separate process.

How it gets done depends on you or your paint guy. Mine elected to paint/clear the whole car then scuff and spray the lower body paint.

 

[delawarebill]

i had the hood painted 2 yrs ago. i found somewhere, maybe here, the measurements of layout. i gave to painter and he did a fantastic job. it was base/clear with 7 coats of clear to even things out. hood=$750 bucks

 

[RIBS]

I novice painted mine 2 tone single stage…painted entire car wimbleton white, painted lower area and tail panel blue over the white…worked great. Another thought, what about vinyl graphics for the black, I am sure someone makes the kit….

 

[agraff55]

So, I went ahead and used a Nason Base/Clear system for the red. The paint turned out pretty good, but have some sanding/buffing to do yet. I went ahead and painted the whole hood with the base/clear and used the stencil from Graphics Express. I scuffed up the blackout area and painted with SEM Hot Rod Black single stage. I am pretty happy with how it turned out (not too bad for a total beginner if I do say so myself ).

More pics to come once I get it out of the booth and sand/buff done.