MSD 8580 with Roller Retrofit

[lduke12]

So im getting really frustrated. I got a 70 429 Thunderjet, I did the Comp Cams roller retrofit along with the Scat 521 stroker kit. I purchased the MSD Pro Billet 8580 Dizzy, and no matter what I do I cannot get the dizzy to sit all the way in the block like its supposed to. I plan on calling MSD in the morning to ask them about it, but has anyone seen or know what is causing this? Also running the ARP oil pump primer. Friend gave me the advise to rotate the assembly and see if it would slip in and no Bueno. Almost seems as though the dizzy gear isn't a match to the cam gear, or the dizzy shaft is just too long. Mind you this distributor is supposed to be made for 385 series engines and 351C

 

[jbojo]

I had similar problems. I found that if I wiggled the rotor a little while installing helped. Also at times I had to rotate the distributor body a little and rotor at the same time and then it dropped right in. I am thinking that the oil pump shaft is just not aligning with the distributor shaft at the bottom. Also look and make sure that the oil pump drive shaft is centered, it tends to rest on the edge of the hole inside the motor so the alignment is off. if none of the above works try rotating the oil pump shaft with the priming tool a little to help line it all up. It's a hex driveshaft so it has to be just right. Good luck.

 

[TommyK]

Take a 5/16" deep socket and tape it securely to the end of an extension. Stick it down in the dizzy hole until it engages the oil pump driveshaft. Turn oil pump driveshaft 1/8 of a turn and install distributor. Repeat as necessary until distributor drops in.

 

[turtle5353]

YEP! what those guys said!! Can be tricky to get in. But once you get the oil pump shaft started the rest usually drops in easily with a slight turn of the rotor. As it drops in the rotor WILL turn some as the teeth mesh. Also I think there should be an o ring in that groove of the dizzy so it don't leak oil. Make sure you have that on there and use some new motor oil to lube the o ring during install.

 

[will e]

Be really careful when you pull the distributor back out. Sometimes the oil shaft comes with it but then drops into the engine.

 

[Totalled]

Once the gears have meshed, gently push down on the distributor while turning the engine over at the crank with a socket and ratchet. As the distributor turns, it will drop down on the oil pump drive.

 

[Don C]

Correct shaft size? Did you compare the shaft size of your original distributor to the shaft size of the new one?

 

[lduke12]

I think I have figured out the problem. I used the ARP pump shaft which is a lot thicker than the stock shaft except at each end that has the hex shape. I think the dizzy shaft is below the gear is longer than stock and it is bottoming out on the wider part of the ARP pump shaft. I looked up ARP shaft with MSD Distributors on Google and started finding lots of articles of folks either just cutting the Dizzy shaft below the gear shorter, or going back to the thin stock shaft. I want to use this Dizzy but I don't want to have to take the oil pan and pump back out since they were just installed to go back to the puny shaft, I may just take the chance and grind off the 1/4" to 1/2" the Dizzy seems to stick out of the block.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Don C]

I would be cautious about doing this. Very small metal filings and grinding grit will be getting into every nook and cranny, including bearings and oil pump, and be very difficult to get it all washed out, and forced into even more places in the washing/flushing process.

 

[lduke12]

I took this post from 460Ford.com explaining exactly what im talking about towards the end of the post. Also just got off the phone with MSD and they know about the issue and suggest going back to stock oil pump shaft, but did mention people have trimmed off the end of the dizzy shaft to still use the ARP shaft.

Danny Cabral01-17-2006, 12:00 PM


Distributor Gear Installation Info

 


Link from OEM replacement instructions:


http://www.racesystems.com/cobra/images/460distgear.jpg

 


Link from Ford Racing Performance Products:


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fordracingparts.com%2Fdownloa d%2FtipsPDF%2FDistributorGearInstallation.pdf&ei=iH_KUvLUJcvxoASVpoCABw&usg=AFQjCNFsCJUS2_ZhK4T1dzBwgW2lzd5cgg&sig2=yfvi-EXNsQcINsJtE8Zd8g&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cGU&cad=rja

 


Link from MSD Ignition:


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msdignition.com%2Finstruction s%2FProducts%2FTech_Info%2Fgear_install_frm28590.p df&ei=X3rKUqLxM8rFoAT8jYCYDw&usg=AFQjCNFm4MJs5QPGy4xd-0L0w0gzUD8J7A&sig2=4EfbKRNk_giS8USqE_R6HQ&cad=rja

 


Link to entire previous discussion:


http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1099689969

 

 

 


351W (TFI also) and 460 distributor compatibility


Spoke with MSD technician about 351W/460 distributor compatibility. He said they get this question alot and the confusion is with:


1) pre/post EFI era distributor


2) oil pump driveshaft type

 


(I'll paraphrase what HE said.) If you're dealing with pre-EFI era distributors, then the two distributors are directly interchangeable after you've swapped the gear. The only difference is, the 460 distributor is slightly taller (external-from engine to cap) and the gear. Supposedly, the 351W distributors have a minor clearance issue with the 460 Edelbrock Victor intake manifolds (and possibly some thermostat housings).

 


Now if you're dealing with a 351W EFI distributor, then there is a minor implication that is easily addressed. The 351W EFI distributor does have a longer shaft (he didn't know exactly how much longer, but he said less than 1/2"), but the female hexagon drive (on end of distributor shaft) is deep enough to be used with an STOCK oil pump driveshaft. The problem is, no one seems to use the stock driveshaft. If you're using an aftermarket heavy duty oil pump driveshaft (such as ARP and most other brands), the 351W EFI distributor will not fit in the 460 because the driveshafts are a larger diameter (reduced only at hex end). You then have to cut, the difference in length (between the two distributors), off the end of the 351W EFI distributor shaft. This is what we discussed...just thought I'd pass it on.

 


Link to entire previous discussion:


http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1109120747

 

[TommyK]

I took this post from 460Ford.com explaining exactly what im talking about towards the end of the post. Also just got off the phone with MSD and they know about the issue and suggest going back to stock oil pump shaft, but did mention people have trimmed off the end of the dizzy shaft to still use the ARP shaft.

Danny Cabral01-17-2006, 12:00 PM


Distributor Gear Installation Info

 


Link from OEM replacement instructions:


http://www.racesystems.com/cobra/images/460distgear.jpg

 


Link from Ford Racing Performance Products:


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fordracingparts.com%2Fdownloa d%2FtipsPDF%2FDistributorGearInstallation.pdf&ei=iH_KUvLUJcvxoASVpoCABw&usg=AFQjCNFsCJUS2_ZhK4T1dzBwgW2lzd5cgg&sig2=yfvi-EXNsQcINsJtE8Zd8g&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cGU&cad=rja

 


Link from MSD Ignition:


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msdignition.com%2Finstruction s%2FProducts%2FTech_Info%2Fgear_install_frm28590.p df&ei=X3rKUqLxM8rFoAT8jYCYDw&usg=AFQjCNFm4MJs5QPGy4xd-0L0w0gzUD8J7A&sig2=4EfbKRNk_giS8USqE_R6HQ&cad=rja

 


Link to entire previous discussion:


http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1099689969

 

 

 


351W (TFI also) and 460 distributor compatibility


Spoke with MSD technician about 351W/460 distributor compatibility. He said they get this question alot and the confusion is with:


1) pre/post EFI era distributor


2) oil pump driveshaft type

 


(I'll paraphrase what HE said.) If you're dealing with pre-EFI era distributors, then the two distributors are directly interchangeable after you've swapped the gear. The only difference is, the 460 distributor is slightly taller (external-from engine to cap) and the gear. Supposedly, the 351W distributors have a minor clearance issue with the 460 Edelbrock Victor intake manifolds (and possibly some thermostat housings).

 


Now if you're dealing with a 351W EFI distributor, then there is a minor implication that is easily addressed. The 351W EFI distributor does have a longer shaft (he didn't know exactly how much longer, but he said less than 1/2"), but the female hexagon drive (on end of distributor shaft) is deep enough to be used with an STOCK oil pump driveshaft. The problem is, no one seems to use the stock driveshaft. If you're using an aftermarket heavy duty oil pump driveshaft (such as ARP and most other brands), the 351W EFI distributor will not fit in the 460 because the driveshafts are a larger diameter (reduced only at hex end). You then have to cut, the difference in length (between the two distributors), off the end of the 351W EFI distributor shaft. This is what we discussed...just thought I'd pass it on.

 


Link to entire previous discussion:


http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1109120747

Danny is talking about using a 351 Windsor distributor. The MSD 8580 is supposed to be correct for 460/351C applications. I would not cut the distributor. I would look more closely at the oil pump driveshaft. Do have access to an old duraspark distributor to use for comparison?

 

[lduke12]

Danny is talking about using a 351 Windsor distributor. The MSD 8580 is supposed to be correct for 460/351C applications. I would not cut the distributor. I would look more closely at the oil pump driveshaft. Do have access to an old duraspark distributor to use for comparison?

Correct I was only showing that because people are posting the same thing with the 8580, I called MSD and they physically told me to either go back to stock oil pump shaft or they have seen folks cut some material off the end of the dizzy shaft.

 

[Totalled]

Well, I can tell you that a duraspark distributor works with an ARP shaft.... And the MSD distributors use the same pickup as a duraspark distributor...