Oil pan replacement.

[California 72]

Good afternoon fellow 71-73er's!
This is just like deja vu all over again. I swear I already posted a thread on Saturday.
Anyhow, pulled the trigger on a new pan, purchased it from Top Flight Automotive and it's listed as a "First Generation 1970-1973 Ford Mustang 351C oil pan - Dynacorn".

First off, does anyone have experience with this pan? Quality/fitment comments?

Secondly, the pan pictured in the description has a baffle in the bottom well so, I'm guessing this was for the 4V motors? Will I need to change the pick-up, pump or both being mine is of the 2V variety?
Someone already mentioned this place is a wealth of knowledge and I do agree but add that, with all I'm learning, I need more wealth to use the knowledge. lol. It seems that every step of this project lately has more than the just two purchases I believed were needed. UGGHH!!!!

 

[Hemikiller]

Same pickup for all 351C engines, so the baffled pan will fit fine. That pan is hard to beat for the money.

 

[California 72]

Same pickup for all 351C engines, so the baffled pan will fit fine. That pan is hard to beat for the money.

Was hoping you'd say that. Kinda thought that myself after looking around other options.

 

[Spike Morelli]

When using an "aftermarket" oil pan, not a Ford Motor Company original pan, you may run into some minor fitment issues. These are common, as the pan is likely stamped in China. Where I've found discrepancies, is there may be some pan rail holes not quite lining up. The very first thing to be sure of, is to chase all of the bolt threaded holes in the block's pan rail. With the exception of the very end bolts which are 5/16ths, the pan rails have small 1/4" bolts and these can bind and snap when forced into a bad thread, so chase those pan bolt holes first. Then there is the pan fitment, which can sometimes have bolt holes slightly off when using an aftermarket pan. Test fit prior to installing. Sometimes a small rat tail file can be used to elongate a pan hole over a bit, and sometimes using a long drift, or rod, or Phillips screwdriver through the pan hole into the block threaded hole can be used to coax the pan rail over as you install the bolt next to the hole you're prying over. if you've worked with repro parts before, then you know how they can be so close, yet need some finessing to make fit right. Factory pans are never a problem. Most custom racing oil pans are welded up bolted down to a fixture, so they should not present any fitment issues.

 

[California 72]

When using an "aftermarket" oil pan, not a Ford Motor Company original pan, you may run into some minor fitment issues. These are common, as the pan is likely stamped in China. Where I've found discrepancies, is there may be some pan rail holes not quite lining up. The very first thing to be sure of, is to chase all of the bolt threaded holes in the block's pan rail. With the exception of the very end bolts which are 5/16ths, the pan rails have small 1/4" bolts and these can bind and snap when forced into a bad thread, so chase those pan bolt holes first. Then there is the pan fitment, which can sometimes have bolt holes slightly off when using an aftermarket pan. Test fit prior to installing. Sometimes a small rat tail file can be used to elongate a pan hole over a bit, and sometimes using a long drift, or rod, or Phillips screwdriver through the pan hole into the block threaded hole can be used to coax the pan rail over as you install the bolt next to the hole you're prying over. if you've worked with repro parts before, then you know how they can be so close, yet need some finessing to make fit right. Factory pans are never a problem. Most custom racing oil pans are welded up bolted down to a fixture, so they should not present any fitment issues.

Believe it or not, the description on the Top Flight website explained it was manufactured in the USA. That was one of my first identifiers. I actually tried to confirm who was making them for Dynacorn but came up empty handed. I was actually hoping for Daniel Carpenter given what I have purchased from him, and his brother(?) Dennis, when I had my F100, nothing needed modification. It was almost as if I went to the Ford dealer and bought the parts.
Thanks for the info on the bolt holes. Like you mentioned, I have found issues with other parts and that was on my mind already.
My remedy was going to be using studs screwed into the block at key points. This was because of "The Great Valve Cover Gasket Fire of 2021" when one of those non-cork, neoprene type gaskets I was sold, folded under and didn't hit all the bolts. It wasn't caught until after I took it out for a drive. No issues under idle, in the garage, but once I stood on it, that's when all hell broke loose. Just barely got to the garage and an extinguisher. A block further away, car would have been toast.
Anyhow, I thought of using the same method to align the pan and avoid any fights with the gasket while working from the bottom side of the car. More frustrating under the car for me.

 

[rcadd1ct]

This is the one I went with

https://www.hedman.com/product-detail/1175

Doesn’t hang lower than stock. Cleared the crossmember and holds an additional 2qts.

Whatever you put on make sure you dry fit and measure for pickup to pan clearance.

 

[MattCoppola]

Same pickup for all 351C engines, so the baffled pan will fit fine. That pan is hard to beat for the money.

Is a baffled oil pan necessary or not for a 351 Cleveland? Thanks

 

[rcadd1ct]

Is a baffled oil pan necessary or not for a 351 Cleveland? Thanks

Depends on your driving style.

Better to baffle and not use it then not have it and need it

 

[MattCoppola]

Depends on your driving style.

Better to baffle and not use it then not have it and need it

True, don’t really get on the car. It’s not a track car. Just drive fast from time to time.

 

[Hemikiller]

Is a baffled oil pan necessary or not for a 351 Cleveland? Thanks

I work for an aftermarket oil pan manufacturer, so I may be biased.

If you're running a stock, or slightly hopped up engine and never rev it hard, then the stock 5qt oil bucket works fine. Keep in mind that the stock pan for most 351Cs had a slosh plate over the sump. The higher performance 351CJ added a crank scraper / tray to the pan. The Boss 351 had that and added an additional quart of oil with a recalibrated dipstick.

https://www.topflightautomotive.com/products/dynacorn-1970-1973-ford-mustang-351c-oil-pan/

351CJ / Boss oil pan

 

[California 72]

The higher performance 351CJ added a crank scraper / tray to the pan. The Boss 351 had that and added an additional quart of oil with a recalibrated dipstick.

That crank scraper, is it something that can be added and where could someone get the part? Just curious since I may try and repair another pan that I found with an actual gash. The guy said the motor "grenaded" and caused it but I'm leaning toward the gash drained the oil and that's what caused the motor to grenade since it's an inward bend. Either way, now I have the new pan from Dynacorn and two damaged ones.
Speaking of replacing the pan, that's sort of on the back burner at the moment. I'm finding it difficult to get under the car with all the wire brush pieces imbedded in the rug and corrugated underlayment beneath the car. Needed something to absorb the dripping fluids from the car. Unfortunately, sliding on the surface is rather painful so a new plan is in the works. I'm thinking of getting a remnant of sheet vinyl to use instead. Easy enough of a fix. Hopefully I get it after our visit with our daughter next week.

Edit: Oh yeah, exactly what takes place to recalibrate the dip-stick. just fill and re-mark the indentations or is it more involved?

 

[basstrix]

Edit: Oh yeah, exactly what takes place to recalibrate the dip-stick. just fill and re-mark the indentations or is it more involved?

After you've installed the new pan, fill with 6 quarts, intsead of 5, run the engine, then let it sit so the oil drains back into the pan....I'd let it sit for at least a half hour, but less is probably ok....then check the oil with the car parked on level surface and mark accordingly.

 

[Hemikiller]

Not aware of a reproduction pan with the crank scraper. Good used ones are out there, and given a choice, that's where I'd go.

 

[Don C]

That crank scraper, is it something that can be added and where could someone get the part? Just curious since I may try and repair another pan that I found with an actual gash. The guy said the motor "grenaded" and caused it but I'm leaning toward the gash drained the oil and that's what caused the motor to grenade since it's an inward bend. Either way, now I have the new pan from Dynacorn and two damaged ones.
Speaking of replacing the pan, that's sort of on the back burner at the moment. I'm finding it difficult to get under the car with all the wire brush pieces imbedded in the rug and corrugated underlayment beneath the car. Needed something to absorb the dripping fluids from the car. Unfortunately, sliding on the surface is rather painful so a new plan is in the works. I'm thinking of getting a remnant of sheet vinyl to use instead. Easy enough of a fix. Hopefully I get it after our visit with our daughter next week.

Edit: Oh yeah, exactly what takes place to recalibrate the dip-stick. just fill and re-mark the indentations or is it more involved?

Post #11 in this thread has a chart that shows the dipstick lengths and will give you a starting point. I would verify the length using the method Basstrix recommended.
https://7173mustangs.com/threads/in...eland-heads-oil-drain-back.44318/#post-447693

 

[tony-muscle]

You can use a so called directional screens as this one:
https://www.crank-scrapers.com/
I made my own version for my oil pan. I still need to post pictures of this mod. If anyone is interested on this screen I have enough leftover from my project that I could part out.

 

[MattCoppola]

That’s looks great!! Nice work

 

[California 72]

Okay, recent efforts at attempting to access the data banks of my mind caused a brief OS crash and I required a reboot that has taken a week. After the reinstallation of some key software, (a simple family vacation visiting our daughter in Dallas), I stumbled upon and old jpg memory file where we used a "windage tray" in our motors of days gone by.

Given that some data was lost over time, my question now would be... just for the sake of discussion since I didn't google anything for the answer...

Is the "crank scraper" similar to a windage tray?

I'm also asking with the idea that I won't be turning my H code into a high rev motor, buuut (key word), that doesn't mean I haven't thought about having a little fun winding it up a bit more than never.

For the record, I still haven't begun to pull the pan, something that started this conversation, since I'm afraid it will cause me to add far more than I already planned on doing since this project has already morphed into grossly more than I had planned on doing. I firmly believe these cars should be four wheels attached, on the ground, driving on weekends for fun during the summer and NOT sitting in the air, on jackstands, with no suspension and body panels, creating a plethora of busted knuckles, a multitude of various other cuts, abrasion's, head bumps and bruises.

 

[tony-muscle]

To your question of crank scraper and windage tray you may get different answers. To me, the scraper "scrapes" oil from the crank. In the Boss pan it is the sharp edge and slot pointing in the direction of the crank "acting" as a crank scraper - only of the back half of the crank. A real crank scraper would be the negative of the crank located a mere thousands off the crank to scrape most of the oil, such as this:
fromhttps://www.crank-scrapers.com/

The windage tray is more to keep the cloud of oil under control so in the Boss pan it would be the layer of sheet metal over the bottom of the pan. In that pan the windage tray then has a groove with the sharp edge that acts as a scrapper of sorts. Most windage trays nowadays are made out from a mesh to allow the oil slinging off the crank to go through the mesh holes but prevents the oil to bounce back onto the crank rotational "cloud."

 

[California 72]

To your question of crank scraper and windage tray you may get different answers. To me, the scraper "scrapes" oil from the crank. In the Boss pan it is the sharp edge and slot pointing in the direction of the crank "acting" as a crank scraper - only of the back half of the crank. A real crank scraper would be the negative of the crank located a mere thousands off the crank to scrape most of the oil, such as this:
View attachment 89937 fromhttps://www.crank-scrapers.com/

The windage tray is more to keep the cloud of oil under control so in the Boss pan it would be the layer of sheet metal over the bottom of the pan. In that pan the windage tray then has a groove with the sharp edge that acts as a scrapper of sorts. Most windage trays nowadays are made out from a mesh to allow the oil slinging off the crank to go through the mesh holes but prevents the oil to bounce back onto the crank rotational "cloud."

Thanks!
I wasn't certain if the Boss pan was using the extra sheet metal more as a baffle for cornering. The windage trays I've seen are typically attached to the main caps but seeing the scraper in your post, the image in my crowded mind is now a bit more complete. It also explains the nylon edge I saw installed on the edge of scraper at one particular site. The use of the mesh is a pretty cool improvement too. I guess that keeps too much oil from collecting that close to the crank as well.
Even understanding the mechanics behind the scraper, wouldn't it be restricted to a more beefed-up assembly like you get with a forged crank/rods and fbm's? There's something telling me, again in my over-crowded mind, I heard tale of some possible flex in the stock SP and not HP parts around redline? Those thousandth's get eaten up pretty quick, especially in an unrefreshed older motor someone like us in our younger days (16-19-year-olds lacking funds, time, patience, or combination of any/all the three) would have just thrown the superficial HP parts on for the Friday-night cruise. It wasn't like we were allowed to take up Dad's garage space for months on end. I remember the "one-time" mistake being a painful situation with my '66. Even with the '71 Cougar XR-7 needing new heads and that was at my father's urging. Funny, it's still painful but instead of Dad, it's the DW giving the ice-spear stares.