Synthetic/non-synthetic blend

[RC92234]

I found the oil on the shelf recommended by the same mechanic that had my engine block out, Castrol 5-30w, non-synthetic.  Grabbed five quarts and a new oil filter (Purolater L30001).  I was originally going to write about the difference in the filter than came off the car (Fram PH3600) and the replacement because the canister size differs, but I figured as long as the seal diameter and threads are the same and the larger can doesn't intrude on anything, it's good. That's why the photo is attached to this message.

Put the new filter on.  Added five quarts of oil.  I was letting the very last drops drip out when I noticed the color was different between two of them... I had just added one quart of non-synthetic 5-30w and four quarts of 5-20w.  (FYI:  I checked the receipt; they charged me for five 5-30w non-synthetic quarts)

So, how bad is this?  Is it:

a) omg, drain the oil now the two combined will make a toxic soup

b) drain it all before you even turn over the engine the first time

or

c) don't worry about it until the next oil change

I won't be starting the engine, much less even have the battery back in for about a week so unless the answer is "a", I don't need to panic.

Every day ya learn something new.  And incidentally, if anyone wants to point out why I should not use the larger canister filter, I'm all ears.

 

[Stanglover]

a) what motor?

b) why 5W30?

c) why not a Motorcraft FL1A  filter? My choice as I do care about appearance and somewhat originality.

 In my 351 C4V M code, I run what was recommended by my engine builder and that is Castrol 10W30 non synthetic. Personally, I will not use synthetic in these older engines as they are best suited to conventional oils. That's just my opinion though and I know many do use synthetic oils. I think it depends on the "build"

Geoff.

 

[RC92234]

a) what motor?

b) why 5W30?

c) why not a Motorcraft FL1A  filter? My choice as I do care about appearance and somewhat originality.

 In my 351 C4V M code, I run what was recommended by my engine builder and that is Castrol 10W30 non synthetic. Personally, I will not use synthetic in these older engines as they are best suited to conventional oils. That's just my opinion though and I know many do use synthetic oils. I think it depends on the "build"

Geoff.

351Q (4V). Like I said, I went with 5-30w because that’s what the mechanic recommended. And I didn’t go with the Motorcraft just yet because it will be at least another oil change before I start the dress up.

No comment on the mix for now?

 

[red351]

It's no big deal to mix. Base syn. is dino oil with additives. It best to use dino oil too seat the rings on a new rebuild, but there always different opinions. I've use reg. oil if needed between oil changes.

 

[Don C]

Zinc additive?

This time of the year I see nothing wrong with the oil. Summer I would go with 15w-40.

 

[jpaz]

Well, I would think twice about using a Motorcraft oil filter. I just had one come apart and got fibers in the lifters, so they collapsed. I have to replace them so this is a real pita. Maybe I just got a bad one, but that shouldn’t happen. I’m switching to Wix filters.

 

[SteveO_71]

Probably wouldnt cause an issue but if it puts your mind at ease drain it and spend the money on fresh same type oil. Or, run it for the season and then drain as usual.

I dont think these cars are driven that hard or putting on many miles to make a difference. Mine probaby gets changed every 1K or so.

Some related reading..........

Here's a practical chemistry question for you: Do you know what happens if you mix regular and synthetic motor oil?

Let's say the mechanic put synthetic oil in your car when you got your oil changed. You stop at a gas station and see you are running about a quart low, but all you can get is regular motor oil. Is it alright to use the regular oil or will you risk harming your engine by doing so?

Mixing Motor Oil

According to Mobil Oil, it should be fine to mix oils. This manufacturer states it would be unlikely anything bad would happen, such as a gel-forming from an interaction of the chemicals (a common fear), because the oils are compatible with each other. Many oils are a blend of natural and synthetic oils. So, if you are low on oil, don't be afraid to add a quart or two of synthetic oil if you are using regular oil or even regular oil if you are using a synthetic. You don't need to rush right out and get an oil change so you'll have "pure" oil.

Possible Negative Effects

It is not recommended to routinely mix oils because the additives in different products may interact or the oils may become destabilized by the mixture. You may reduce or negate the properties of the additives. You could lose the benefits of the more expensive synthetic oil. So, adding regular oil to your special synthetic oil will mean you'll need to get your oil changed sooner than you would have otherwise. If you have a high-performance engine, it's possible it will be displeased if the (expensive) additives can't work the way they are supposed to. This may not damage your engine, but it won't help its performance.

The Difference Between Regular and Synthetic Oil

Both conventional and synthetic motor oils are derived from petroleum, but they can be very different products. Conventional oil is refined from crude oil. It circulates through the engine to keep it cool and prevent wear by acting as a lubricant. It helps prevent corrosion, keeps surfaces clean, and seals the engine. Synthetic oil serves the same purpose, but it's tailored for higher temperature and pressure.

Synthetic oil is also refined, but then it's distilled and purified so that it contains fewer impurities and a smaller, select set of molecules. Synthetic oil also contains additives intended to help keep an engine cleaner and protect it from damage. The main difference between regular and synthetic oil is the temperature at which it undergoes thermal degradation. In a high-performance engine, regular oil is more apt to pick up deposits and form sludge. Cars that run hot do better with synthetic oil. For most automobiles, the only real difference you'll see is that synthetic costs more initially but lasts longer between oil changes.

 

[RC92234]

Probably wouldnt cause an issue but if it puts your mind at ease drain it and spend the money on fresh same type oil. Or, run it for the season and then drain as usual.

I dont think these cars are driven that hard or putting on many miles to make a difference. Mine probaby gets changed every 1K or so.

Some related reading..........

Here's a practical chemistry question for you: Do you know what happens if you mix regular and synthetic motor oil?

Let's say the mechanic put synthetic oil in your car when you got your oil changed. You stop at a gas station and see you are running about a quart low, but all you can get is regular motor oil. Is it alright to use the regular oil or will you risk harming your engine by doing so?

Mixing Motor Oil

According to Mobil Oil, it should be fine to mix oils. This manufacturer states it would be unlikely anything bad would happen, such as a gel-forming from an interaction of the chemicals (a common fear), because the oils are compatible with each other. Many oils are a blend of natural and synthetic oils. So, if you are low on oil, don't be afraid to add a quart or two of synthetic oil if you are using regular oil or even regular oil if you are using a synthetic. You don't need to rush right out and get an oil change so you'll have "pure" oil.

Possible Negative Effects

It is not recommended to routinely mix oils because the additives in different products may interact or the oils may become destabilized by the mixture. You may reduce or negate the properties of the additives. You could lose the benefits of the more expensive synthetic oil. So, adding regular oil to your special synthetic oil will mean you'll need to get your oil changed sooner than you would have otherwise. If you have a high-performance engine, it's possible it will be displeased if the (expensive) additives can't work the way they are supposed to. This may not damage your engine, but it won't help its performance.

The Difference Between Regular and Synthetic Oil

Both conventional and synthetic motor oils are derived from petroleum, but they can be very different products. Conventional oil is refined from crude oil. It circulates through the engine to keep it cool and prevent wear by acting as a lubricant. It helps prevent corrosion, keeps surfaces clean, and seals the engine. Synthetic oil serves the same purpose, but it's tailored for higher temperature and pressure.

Synthetic oil is also refined, but then it's distilled and purified so that it contains fewer impurities and a smaller, select set of molecules. Synthetic oil also contains additives intended to help keep an engine cleaner and protect it from damage. The main difference between regular and synthetic oil is the temperature at which it undergoes thermal degradation. In a high-performance engine, regular oil is more apt to pick up deposits and form sludge. Cars that run hot do better with synthetic oil. For most automobiles, the only real difference you'll see is that synthetic costs more initially but lasts longer between oil changes.

Great piece!  Thanks.  Most importantly:  no damage done, no urgent need to switch.

 

[c9zx]

A couple of things, unless your machine shop set the bearing clearances VERY tight I have no idea why the mechanic would recommend a 5-W-Anything. Bearing clearances and intended use conditions should determine X-W-Y. Oils that are petroleum base stock III or IIIA can be called "synthetic" (see court case).  Class IV base stocks are true synthetic (PAO based) oils as are base stock V oils (esters and anything that doesn't fit in category I,II,III, IIIA, and IV).

The Purolater filter is fine, unless they have changed who makes it, then I can't say. I continue to default to WIX filters as they continue to be very high quality and capacity. Unless you are flogging the engine a lot, the 5-W-20 oil should be fine unless the anti-wear package has been decreased to meet the new industry agreement  for the SN (I believe SN is most current) specification (zinc and phosphorus/ZDDP). Things other than ZDDP can be used to reduce wear/protect the cam. So I won't say the newest spec oil will harm our old engines but, I won't use it in my lawn mowers and power washer let alone my old car engines. If you start to do serious research on this subject be aware that oil companies are very reluctant to share additive package information and in general the subject is a long and deep "rabbit hole". Chuck

 

[7173Vert]

Lucas 10W30.

 

[Hemikiller]

10W30 is the proper viscosity, dino oil is more than adequate. Be sure it has higher levels of ZDDP to protect the cam and lifters.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I would toss a bottle of the Lucas zinc additive in just to be safe. I was at a car show this summer and the guy next to me had a 70 Chevelle. We were talking and he asked me if I knew about them removing the zinc in oil and I told him yes that I added the Lucas zinc to mine. He went to the car and came back with a lifter that looked like it have been held to a grinding wheel. It only have a few miles on it. He had to tear the new engine back down and replace cam and lifters and clean it all up. 

Some of the synthetic oils have higher zinc levels and are probably ok but not all do. Ford went to roller cams back in the 80's to prevent the cam wear when they reduced the zinc content. 

One of the divisions of the company I worked for was Scotland Mfg. in N.C. stamped oil filter shells for about everyone. Even the huge ones for big diesel trucks. The biggest difference in filters is inside the filter. Some use paper or something similar and some use fibers. 

Someone said they had a Ford filter come apart would be interested in what came apart? I know that if your valve stem seals in a 302 351 go bad and enough of the rubber gets in the oil pan it can block the pick up screen. On some oil pumps Ford put a provision that if the screen gets blocked it pops up and opens a hole to keep oil going. When this happens the pieces of rubber get pulled into the oil pump and can hold the by pass valve closed and the pump will explode the oil filter which is the weak point in the system. I fixed a couple of them over the years that were splitting the filters.

I do not use synthetic in any of my vehicles I do use the Ford synthetic blend in my truck and 5W20 is the recommended weight for the 5.4 engine. It has 302,000 miles on it now so I guess it works ok.

There will never be one oil that is the best. It will always be an opinion and we all have one. Here is a chart for the Mobil oils that are available and you can see that zinc levels vary a lot by which blend you buy. Most probably are not on the shelf at Wal Mart or your parts house. They keep a limited supply. So if someone says they are using a synthetic you have to dig a little deeper and see which one they are using.

When we kart raced guys that were serious about qualifying up front would drain their oil all out and go run the two laps to qualify with no oil in the crankcase. That allowed the crank to have no interference with the oil and would gain a tenth or two on lap time. We ran 5 W oil and in 8 years of racing never had an engine fail. I have seen the memory tach over 7,000 rpm when we got the gear wrong.  The NASCAR engines today have sealed partitions between the throws and they pull a vacuum to keep the oil out of the way of the crank. 

The picture of the rod cap remove is the engine I took out of my 73 Mach 1. The engine had not been turned over in 37 years and there was still oil in the bearings. That was Havoline 10 W 30 which I put back in with a bottle of the Lucas zinc. 





mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

 

[turtle5353]

Oil questions and the opinions on them are like a**holes, EVERYONE has one.  lollerz   I run Rotella 15w-40 diesel oil. And the Motorcraft FL1A filter. I read that the Motorcraft Filters are made by Purolater.

 

[tony-muscle]

A more factual opinion: the thing to worry about between 5-30 and 10-30 is the viscosity when cold. The 5-30 would be much thinner when you start your engine. Both oils would behave the same once it warms up.

That said, i would be more concerned with the 5-20 which would be thinner at working temp.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Stanglover]

a) what motor?

b) why 5W30?

c) why not a Motorcraft FL1A  filter? My choice as I do care about appearance and somewhat originality.

 In my 351 C4V M code, I run what was recommended by my engine builder and that is Castrol 10W30 non synthetic. Personally, I will not use synthetic in these older engines as they are best suited to conventional oils. That's just my opinion though and I know many do use synthetic oils. I think it depends on the "build"

Geoff.

351Q (4V). Like I said, I went with 5-30w because that’s what the mechanic recommended. And I didn’t go with the Motorcraft just yet because it will be at least another oil change before I start the dress up.

No comment on the mix for now?

 Reading through the replies, I realized I had forgotten to mention that I always add a bottle of ZDDP to the oil. My engine has over 5K miles since it was rebuilt, which was broken in on a stand with Comp Cams break-in oil ( my receipt doesn't say which viscosity though) then changed to Castrol 10W30 after 500 miles, then changed again at 1500 miles and every year thereafter, which is rarely more than 1500 miles, adding ZDDP each time.

 As for the Motorcraft FL1A failing as in jpaz's reply, I would say that was an anomaly. My Ford dealership told me the FL1A is a Purolator, or at least they thought so. I always used Fram filters in the past, but some of these have failed, which surprised me as when I worked for Canadian Fram air filters, the testing we did was over and beyond requirements, so I would have expected the oil filter branch to be on a similar level. Time passes, things change and parts get built more cheaply, so I guess it's possible.

 

[c9zx]

I would toss a bottle of the Lucas zinc additive in just to be safe. I was at a car show this summer and the guy next to me had a 70 Chevelle. We were talking and he asked me if I knew about them removing the zinc in oil and I told him yes that I added the Lucas zinc to mine. He went to the car and came back with a lifter that looked like it have been held to a grinding wheel. It only have a few miles on it. He had to tear the new engine back down and replace cam and lifters and clean it all up. 

Some of the synthetic oils have higher zinc levels and are probably ok but not all do. Ford went to roller cams back in the 80's to prevent the cam wear when they reduced the zinc content. 

One of the divisions of the company I worked for was Scotland Mfg. in N.C. stamped oil filter shells for about everyone. Even the huge ones for big diesel trucks. The biggest difference in filters is inside the filter. Some use paper or something similar and some use fibers. 

Someone said they had a Ford filter come apart would be interested in what came apart? I know that if your valve stem seals in a 302 351 go bad and enough of the rubber gets in the oil pan it can block the pick up screen. On some oil pumps Ford put a provision that if the screen gets blocked it pops up and opens a hole to keep oil going. When this happens the pieces of rubber get pulled into the oil pump and can hold the by pass valve closed and the pump will explode the oil filter which is the weak point in the system. I fixed a couple of them over the years that were splitting the filters.

I do not use synthetic in any of my vehicles I do use the Ford synthetic blend in my truck and 5W20 is the recommended weight for the 5.4 engine. It has 302,000 miles on it now so I guess it works ok.

There will never be one oil that is the best. It will always be an opinion and we all have one. Here is a chart for the Mobil oils that are available and you can see that zinc levels vary a lot by which blend you buy. Most probably are not on the shelf at Wal Mart or your parts house. They keep a limited supply. So if someone says they are using a synthetic you have to dig a little deeper and see which one they are using.

When we kart raced guys that were serious about qualifying up front would drain their oil all out and go run the two laps to qualify with no oil in the crankcase. That allowed the crank to have no interference with the oil and would gain a tenth or two on lap time. We ran 5 W oil and in 8 years of racing never had an engine fail. I have seen the memory tach over 7,000 rpm when we got the gear wrong.  The NASCAR engines today have sealed partitions between the throws and they pull a vacuum to keep the oil out of the way of the crank. 

The picture of the rod cap remove is the engine I took out of my 73 Mach 1. The engine had not been turned over in 37 years and there was still oil in the bearings. That was Havoline 10 W 30 which I put back in with a bottle of the Lucas zinc. 

None of the Mobil 1 oils in the link have sufficient levels of ZDDP to protect flat tappet cams with elevated spring pressures. Chuck

 

[c9zx]

There is a lot of "stuff" in modern oils. Some of which does play well with stand alone additives. Brief overview of the "stuff". Chuck

https://blog.amsoil.com/more-than-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-motor-oil-additives/

 

[Don C]

Geez, some of that sounds like the ingredients in candy bars and vitamins.

I like the "sulfurized fats". I think that's what I'll blame my spare tire and gas on.