The Great Debate - NOS, Restored or Reproduction?

[Mister 4x4]

I guess since mine was so far gone and I had to depend so heavily on repop parts, I've come the point that I really just don't care. My first and foremost was getting it back together, knowing that I was not going to be building a concourse entry. Mine's 'just' an H-Code after all - so, it comes down to:

• Would I ever use NOS parts? Nope - save those for the guys with deeper pockets and the bigger cases of OCD
• Use original parts that need refurbishing? Absolutely! Except that those were few and far between on mine - not much was salvageable
• Parts car parts? You bet! But... see previous comment (sucks living in a small market location)
• Repop parts it is, along with some flat-out fabrication of something that was 'missing'

Obviously, some things can't be [easily] replaced, like the plastic interior trim pieces, so I cleaned 'em, repainted, and reused. Door handles, hood locks, bumpers, sheet metal, upholstery, suspension, you name it. My car's build list is basically a rolling catalog from OMS, NPD & CJPP, along with ebay and even some of the fine folks here offering up various things from their stashes of still serviceable parts. About the only things left of mine original to the car are:

• Hood
• Doors
• Roof
• Dashboard
• Seat frames
• Mirrors
• Gauges
• Rear Axle
• Deluxe Door Panel Trim Inserts
• Interior Plastic/Metal Trim Pieces
• Power Brake Dust Shields
• Wiring Harness
• Export Braces
• Engine Block, Heads, Crank, and Bracketry
• 'Most' of the unibody from the firewall back
• Quarter Panel End Caps
• Fender End Caps
• Hood Trim (leading edge)
• Bumper Brackets
• Door Hinges

Probably forgot a few things, but not much more... but it was easier than listing all of the things I had to replace. LOL!

When I first got mine, a Bob Perkins-level M-Code showed up on an RV Lot for only $22K. I could've gotten in and been so much time and money ahead of where I am, and have a dang near perfect specimen... which would've wound up just living in the garage because I'd almost be afraid to drive it in fear of adding more miles and risking an accident. Granted, things aren't all THAT much different because I don't want to risk anything happening to all the hard work I did getting it back together, but that's different (and wouldn't be such a big deal if I hadn't already gotten a door ding from the one time I parked in a parking lot for a few minutes).

While I can appreciate ALL levels of survivor/build/restoration efforts, I don't get wrapped around the axle about how much Joe Concourse spent on his quest for perfection, or whether Roger Repop doesn't have an original piece left of his car. I just love the cars and the motivation behind keeping them on the road. I do get a little twisted up when someone misrepresents what they have (lies about it, in other words). Just be honest. The fact that these cars are still on the road is amazing in and of itself... no need to lie about things just to seemingly make it more special. An 'H-Code' wasn't supposed to be anything special, but I submit that a nicely done and running H-Code is worth more to me than any unfinished basket-case Boss 351 any day of the week - not to mention with all the cool mods I've done (because I could without any guilt whatsoever), it could probably hold its own against anything from the 1971 Ford catalog.

At the end of the day: it's your car, build it how you can/want, and remember that they're ALL cool!

 

[PoFoMoCo]

Gotta love them West Texas boys… well said.

 

[Kilgon]

While I can appreciate ALL levels of survivor/build/restoration efforts, I don't get wrapped around the axle about how much Joe Concourse spent on his quest for perfection, or whether Roger Repop doesn't have an original piece left of his car. I just love the cars and the motivation behind keeping them on the road. I do get a little twisted up when someone misrepresents what they have (lies about it, in other words). Just be honest. The fact that these cars are still on the road is amazing in and of itself... no need to lie about things just to seemingly make it more special. An 'H-Code' wasn't supposed to be anything special, but I submit that a nicely done and running H-Code is worth more to me than any unfinished basket-case Boss 351 any day of the week - not to mention with all the cool mods I've done (because I could without any guilt whatsoever), it could probably hold its own against anything from the 1971 Ford catalog.

At the end of the day: it's your car, build it how you can/want, and remember that they're ALL cool!

I think Eric hit it dead on. To each his own and they are all cool. When I look at any older car, I look at the overall finish and how well things fit and blend together. A well put together car with repro parts can look better than one that is all Concourse. A lot of true all original cars that haven't been touched leave a lot to be desire - uneven panel lines, off center black out on hood, and other imperfections that were common coming off the assembly line. And where do you draw the line as to what makes nos better than repro other than it is an original Ford part? Is having that Ford logo on the part worth the extra cost if both parts are equal, unless of course once again a Concourse thing. I can understand the pride that someone might have owning an original and there are those people that will not accept anything less, but to me and I would say the vast majority of guys and gals that love old cars, just having a nice-looking running one is an honor.

 

[Spike Morelli]

Another thing that has happened, over time, is that the components any old car guy needs to rebuild, or refresh, a certain part, aren't available anymore. The Auto Parts store I used to work at when I was younger, used to stock things like, wheel cylinder rebuilding kits, fuel pump rebuilding kits, waterpump rebuilding kits, master cyl rebuilding kits, etc. Alternator or Generator not working properly, or noisy? There were kits with bearings, brushes, bushings, diodes, that you could buy. Carb kits , OEM tune-up kits, you name it. You could go to the dealer and get anything you needed for a worn distributor, even convert to a dual point kit, or go electronic the factory way. You could keep the original part- numbered casting and re-build it then.
When I restored my '65 Coupe, I relpaced every piece of sheetmetal from the windshield-forward, with OEM factory pieces ordered right from my local dealer. Same with all the engine pieces,want a C3OZ-C cam? Available! Every piece, available from the dealer. Nothing made in China.
Back then, almost every car had chromed steel bumpers, although our years of cars were made with either, as the 5mph bumper law was coming into effect. Point here is, Body Shops had their own friendly bumper shop, so if your car had a bent or rusty bumper, you didn't ask the Chinese for a thin, shitty chromed replacement, Bumper shops fixed your original like new, and the plating was superior usually to most today.
Sadly, it isn't "then" anymore. Original parts aren't as plentiful. Re-building components aren't available like they used to be. Mechanics who know how to, and have the tools to rebuild things are dying off, and even if they could do it for you, at today's labor rates, it's so much less expensive to just replace the offending part. In California, maybe elsewhere, the EPA has made it illegal to "Arc" brake shoes to fit drums, citing asbestos dust issues, so that operation isn't as well done as it used to be.
Want to paint your car? Lots of places have outlawed the original enamels and laquers. It's what we're all up against.
At one time, any Import stuff had tarrifs imposed on them to level the playing field ( getting political here for a second ), now, we are flooded with their crap. Thanks BAFTA, MAFTA,, whatever that free trade deal was, USA took it in the rear!
Anyway, I thought I'd talk about some reasons re-ferbishing original parts with OEM quality parts has diminished.

 

[Spike Morelli]

Chevrolet products get a big BOOOOOOO!!! from me. I am so sick of the seemingly endless numbers of 32 Fords with the ubiquitous "small block 350/turbo 350 trans and a Ford 9" set ups. It is so very run of the mill. It is the twisted holy grail of the hot rodding World. I won't even get started bitching about LS swaps. Happy new year! . We hope.

AH! Let's talk '32 Fords for a moment. Yes, absolutely there are way too many mother******* Chevy powered versions. To be fair, the small block stovebolt is a good engine. But, it's over-saturation of use is due to it being probably THE CHEAPEST in cost, the abundance to find ( new or used ), aftermarket support,and, ( I'm gonna hear it now ), the requirement of only the most minimal automotive understanding, to maintain. But why ONLY the SBC? Most chassis manufacturers have both Ford small block and Chevy small block mount frames in stock. There are other options. A "hot rod" will never be a new car, it's visual image should say " let me take you back". Engines are a highly visual part of hot rods, so the engine should reflect the 40s, 50s, or 60s in a '32 Ford. Yes, the 283/327 was a player. The 350......nope. My personal favorite for a Hot rod might be an old 390 Cadillac, later model, with the modern trans bellhousing. It's compact ( fits ), looks very cool, torque for days, and parts available. The early Mopar Hemi is a natural. Size wise, it is the same, water pump to bellhousing flange, as a SBC and again, has so much more grunt. The early Hemi visual is always attractive. Nail-head Buick, was super popular, just ask Tommy Ivo! Anyone ever build model kits as a kid? Still do? Ever build the Monogram Big Deuce? It had a Pontiac with six Strombergs that was "De-Rigeur" for it's time. Lets talk Small block fords. Most of the preceding engines I've mentioned came out, and were popular prior to the Small Block Ford, BUT,......Cobras and Mustangs were winning races all over the place back then,.......more than the 'vettes. You'd think more guys would want that hot, race-winning powerplant in their street rod. When you DO find a street rod with a Ford small block, it's either a 302 smog motor with a 4v and chrome valve covers, or some derivitive that is over accessorized to the point that it looks like they ran through Pep Boys with a magnet! I don't see a sharp Cobra Hi-Po 289 ,rumpity-rumping, solids clattering, anywhere. Those engines were legendary, and in a light roadster, more than a match for the bow-tie small block.
I guess, maybe the saying is right........there's a lot of Hot Rod owners, guys who can afford to buy a hot rod, but few real hot-rodders around anymore.
Help me down off my soap box......I'm older than you.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

AH! Let's talk '32 Fords for a moment. Yes, absolutely there are way too many M-F Chevy powered versions. To be fair, the small block stovebolt is a good engine. But, it's over-saturation of use is due to it being probably THE CHEAPEST in cost, the abundance to find ( new or used ), aftermarket support,and, ( I'm gonna hear it now ), the requirement of only the most minimal automotive understanding, to maintain. But why ONLY the SBC? Most chassis manufacturers have both Ford small block and Chevy small block mount frames in stock. There are other options. A "hot rod" will never be a new car, it's visual image should say " let me take you back". Engines are a highly visual part of hot rods, so the engine should reflect the 40s, 50s, or 60s in a '32 Ford. Yes, the 283/327 was a player. The 350......nope. My personal favorite for a Hot rod might be an old 390 Cadillac, later model, with the modern trans bellhousing. It's compact ( fits ), looks very cool, torque for days, and parts available. The early Mopar Hemi is a natural. Size wise, it is the same, water pump to bellhousing flange, as a SBC and again, has so much more grunt. The early Hemi visual is always attractive. Nail-head Buick, was super popular, just ask Tommy Ivo! Anyone ever build model kits as a kid? Still do? Ever build the Monogram Big Deuce? It had a Pontiac with six Strombergs that was "De-Rigeur" for it's time. Lets talk Small block fords. All of the preceding engines I've mentioned came out, and were popular prior to the Small Block Ford, BUT,......Cobras and Mustangs were winning races all over the place back then,.......more than the 'vettes. You'd think more guys would want that hot, race-winning powerplant in their street rod. When you DO find a street rod with a Ford small block, it's either a 302 smog motor with a 4v and chrome valve covers, or some derivitive that is over accessorized to the point that it looks like they ran through Pep Boys with a magnet! I don't see a sharp Cobra Hi-Po 289 ,rumpity-rumping, solids clattering, anywhere. Those engines were legendary, and in a light roadster, more than a match for the bow-tie small block.
I guess, maybe the saying is right........there's a lot of Hot Rod owners, guys who can afford to buy a hot rod, but few real hot-rodders around anymore.
Help me down off my soap box......I'm older than you>

I agree with you on every point you made Spike. I built the Monogram Big Deuce when I was 9. I was always a fan Monogram model kits although I built a ton more of their 1/48 scale airplane kits back when you could buy them at the drug store along with paint and glue for $5.00 to $15.00. They cost a fortune now if you can find them.

Ron

 

[c9zx]

I've never been into classic hot rods but, I did see a 33 ford coupe at a car show with a Ford 427 SOHC engine in it. I will admit lusting after that car. Chuck

 

[Spike Morelli]

Ron, I'm with you on the car and 1/48 airplane kits. Likely building the car kits as a young boy started me out on the path to being interested in car, motors, building things. ( No, I never sniffed the glue!)

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Ron, I'm with you on the car and 1/48 airplane kits. Likely building the car kits as a young boy started me out on the path to being interested in car, motors, building things. ( No, I never sniffed the glue!)

I may have sniffed the glue a bit. Sweet nectar of toluene. Like you, it all started with building model cars with my in born fascination with all things mechanical.

Ron

 

[Ron Tanzi]

I've never been into classic hot rods but, I did see a 33 ford coupe at a car show with a Ford 427 SOHC engine in it. I will admit lusting after that car. Chuck

Now that is a hot rod I would dig.

Ron

 

[c9zx]

You should have heard it when he fired it up. It was horsepower variation on the 1812 overture.
Chuck

 

[fmjcraig]

I built a lot of models as a kid, and the memories of toluene do linger...how about also when we would take a drive down to Florida from Michigan in the mid-50’s for summer vacation, no I75 back then, winding through the mountains in north Georgia, and the fragrant aroma of leaded gas when my dad would fill up the tank...hmmm...

 

[tpj71mach]

Mustang owners are the least of the offenders in this catagory. Attend ANY car show, you will find a large percentage of participants are Chevrolets. I would venture to say that you could go to shows all summer, and not find ONE original '55-'57 Chevy, or any original Chevelles, Novas, Pick-ups, El Caminos, and I believe ( to Chevy owners ) it is against all that is holy to restore a Camaro back to Factory Original, judging by what you'll see. There's big blocks and LS series motors in EVERYTHING! Just selfish carnage on a larger scale than we do. No, Mustang vintage owners aren't saints, as far as originality goes, but we represent closer to the mark than the Bowtie Boys do.

As a Mustang owner and Chevy owner I have to say that not all Chevy owners don't appreciate originality. I am not a concourse car restorer, I don't have the budget or the interest to be honest. I respect the people who do, I wish I had the dedication, and the budget but I do not. I restore all of my cars to be "day two" cars. They look stock and have the stock engines that belong in the car but have been rebuilt internally with high performance components. I try to make them look like a stock engine that someone added headers and aluminum intake and such to them. I appreciate all cars and don't really focus on manufacturers. Most of my friends are Chevy guys but don't mind that I 'm building a Mustang and all have been helpful as this build has progressed. My 72 Chevelle was a 454 car and still is, my 80 Z28 was a 350 car and still is, my 69 Camaro was a 396 car and still is, and my Mach 1 was a 351C car and still is, they just have a lot more HP than they came out of the factory with.

That being said, sadly the aftermarket is much more prolific for Chevy's than Ford's. You can literally build a 69 Camaro from a catalog, there is nothing that is not available for them. I have found that Mustangs, at least our years, don't seem to have as much available. This seems to cause the pricing to be higher and the quality to suffer. The quality and fit of some of the things I have ordered have not been very good. It seems to me that NOS and used genuine parts are a safer bet than reproductions for our cars. I have bought a few restoration parts only to decide I would rather rebuild or refinish the original part. The fuel filler cap is a prime example, I bought a Scott Drake and was not impressed and decided to refinish a used original instead. I believe that because there are many companies making reproduction parts for Chevy's there is more competition and that forces quality and pricing to be better.

 

[351c1971]

There are a few reproduction parts that are better than Ford OEM. I think an example of this is the Scott Drake 71-72 Mach 1 grille.
That said, the value of this forum lies in the vast experience of the members and their willingness to share their honest feedback on vendors and products for our 71-73 Mustangs.

 

[Stanglover]

As a Mustang owner and Chevy owner I have to say that not all Chevy owners don't appreciate originality. I am not a concourse car restorer, I don't have the budget or the interest to be honest. I respect the people who do, I wish I had the dedication, and the budget but I do not. I restore all of my cars to be "day two" cars. They look stock and have the stock engines that belong in the car but have been rebuilt internally with high performance components. I try to make them look like a stock engine that someone added headers and aluminum intake and such to them. I appreciate all cars and don't really focus on manufacturers. Most of my friends are Chevy guys but don't mind that I 'm building a Mustang and all have been helpful as this build has progressed. My 72 Chevelle was a 454 car and still is, my 80 Z28 was a 350 car and still is, my 69 Camaro was a 396 car and still is, and my Mach 1 was a 351C car and still is, they just have a lot more HP than they came out of the factory with.

That being said, sadly the aftermarket is much more prolific for Chevy's than Ford's. You can literally build a 69 Camaro from a catalog, there is nothing that is not available for them. I have found that Mustangs, at least our years, don't seem to have as much available. This seems to cause the pricing to be higher and the quality to suffer. The quality and fit of some of the things I have ordered have not been very good. It seems to me that NOS and used genuine parts are a safer bet than reproductions for our cars. I have bought a few restoration parts only to decide I would rather rebuild or refinish the original part. The fuel filler cap is a prime example, I bought a Scott Drake and was not impressed and decided to refinish a used original instead. I believe that because there are many companies making reproduction parts for Chevy's there is more competition and that forces quality and pricing to be better.

You have your own private car show! NICE.

 

[PoFoMoCo]

Many really good points and undoubtedly this discussion will carry-on long past most of us. Well, other than guys like Spike who still look like they’re freakin’ 35 years old.

I will say this…. When discussing really shiny new car parts on a well used and loved car, my buddy did not have a good argument for my argument that it “looks like lipstick on a pig”.

So now you know who won that argument right? I didn’t even brag about to our wives and kids, he’s a lawyer BTW.

In hindsight, he probably let me win.

 

[PoFoMoCo]

You have your own private car show! NICE.

Don’t encourage him!!!!

 

[tpj71mach]

Don’t encourage him!!!!

Yes, I shouldn't be encouraged, that's the last thing my wife wants, she's afraid I'll be bringing home more projects.

 

[kcmash]

I thought the original post asked for our opinions.

1) Refurbished or unrefurbished original parts
2) NOS
3) Repop or aftermarket

My opinions

Kcmash

 

[PoFoMoCo]

So after months of searching for an original ram air hood, which involved looking at a hoods that I wouldn't sell on a rusty parts cars, I bought a reproduction hood. I feel like I did my due diligence, sorting thru a truckload of old forum posts here, VMF and AFM. Really just trying to sort thru all the BS on Goodmark vs. Dynacorn, etc.....

Someone just shoot me now.....