Toploader question

[Jeff73Mach1]

Okay, feel free to roast me over this, but would a 4 speed toploader out of a 1965 mustang be any different than one out of a 71-73 mustang?  I have a line on one for my 29 Tudor at a pretty decent price $500 and in the local area.

Other than the early 25 spline input shaft is there anything else I need to look out for other than normal issues?

 

[Tnfastbk]

Okay, feel free to roast me over this, but would a 4 speed toploader out of a 1965 mustang be any different than one out of a 71-73 mustang?  I have a line on one for my 29 Tudor at a pretty decent price $500 and in the local area.

Other than the early 25 spline input shaft is there anything else I need to look out for other than normal issues?

Jeff, It will work just fine as long as you have the proper drive shaft. The one I removed from my car was a 65 model if I remember correctly. Best info out there that I could find is here. http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/idchart1.htm

 

[Hemikiller]

First toploader I had was an HEH-BW wide ratio which I put into my first 71 sportsroof. $500 is a good price as long as it's not a pile of rusty parts in a box.

 

[c9zx]

Count the splines on the output shaft. If it is 28 or 31 you should be fine. If it is 25 spline, walk away. Chuck

 

[OMS]

If that falls through, I think I have one here

Also have a 67 fairlane close ratio from a 390

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I do not know that I would walk away for a 25 spline 1964 1/2 for $500. That was the first year for toploader and the 64 1/2 D code came with the 25 spline output. K code got 28 and after having failures in the 25 spline Ford went to 28 across the board in 65. The bolt pattern or flanges on the front of the early ones is narrow. Here are some pictures of one I have. They are difficult to find and anyone restoring a D code 64 1/2 or Falcon would love to have it. Note that the cast bosses on the side are not drilled.

If it is a 25 spline you can simply change the output shaft to a 28 also not a big thing.

They only make the 25 spline for 90 days. Tag will have HEH-G code.

 

[mjlan]

Looking at David’s pics, is that trans he early narrow bellhousing pattern?

I think most bells had bothe narrow and wide patterns but I can’t remember.

As was mentioned, I would pass on a 25 spline trans...

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

https://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/d/1965-ford-mustang-4-speed/6713346698.html

So here is the ad- I think I can get it cheaper, but something about it is concerning me. YOu have all been so helpful in sharing your knowledge, if anyone would look at the ad and the photos and tell me what they see, I would be appreciative.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

nothing to see here

 

[c9zx]

My comment was made in the context of the OP's stated intended use of the transmission.  I made no statement as to the restoration value of a 25 spline transmission. It may be desirable for a low powered restoration project. Chuck

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

It is a narrow case, I'll be passing on this one.

If you are selling a toploader that will work behind a small block, feel free give me a price and a description

 

[Studdley]

It is a narrow case, I'll be passing on this one.

If you are selling a toploader that will work behind a small block, feel free give me a price and a description

How would you like a highly coveted 3 speed out of a 68? comes with a hydro throwout

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

That's a joke, right?

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

When I looked at the ad he did not say if it was 25 or 28 spline. The bolt pattern to the bell housing does not make it any stronger. All of the gears inside are the same for either.

No toploader is bullet proof. My X broke 3rd. gear in one of mine with a bone stock 351 and F-70 tires.

If you want a stronger transmission go to a T5 like SVO had, I think Ford called them World Class, lol. The difference in the bearing set ups between toloader and T5 is night and day. Also the shifter mech. is much better. You run automatic transmission fluid in a T5 not thick gear oil.

Should be able to find one of those much easier.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

A world Class T-5 will not withstand 450 horsepower. No friggin way. Even the later T-45 when upgraded and modified to fit a SBF can't hang- With a Toploader, I know what I have and I am confident that failure, while always an option isn't a given.

As to the narrow pattern vs the standard pattern- My Lakewood bellhousing is not set up for the narrow pattern and I don't want to drill it. I don't expect it would affect the ability to renew certification, or that I would bother, but it isn't what i want

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

If you are going to be rough with your car you should eliminate the manual transmission all together. I do know for a fact that my one owner 73 Mach 1 stock engine broke a toploader third gear with skinny tires. The Q code vert I am building will have a C-6 for sure. The SVO guys around here do not have issues and some of them push over 600 hp from the 4 cylinder.

Between having clutch issues and broken gears and lousy shifting I myself will not install the toploader and I have two complete set ups including all pedals, trans and links. You would be hard pressed to find anyone winning in drag racing with a manual transmission today.

Back when they were popular on the strip most had converted the to what we called crash boxes. You take every other tooth off the synchronizes so that they shift easier. You miss a shift and you have lost the race for sure and if no rpm limiter you probably will drop a valve. After you made the a crash box you could not shift normal had to slam it.

The reason that they never use automatic on the circle track was the amount of fluid they put down when they do break. Do not really need much to go round and round. Been waiting to see what someone does with some of the new 6 and 10 speed automatics.

My nephew told me the other day that his new dual wheel diesel Ford PU spins the tires when he is pulling camper and it shifts.

Sure a 4 or 5 speed is fun to drive but they suck for dependability.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

And I am building a Model A Tudor with a corvette suspension because I want a dependable daily driver? If it isn't cool...it isn't cool.