Weak Spark, All New Components

[Studdley]

Hi studdley I had a weak spark problem on a 351 4v Cleveland some years ago and found it to be a dead condenser hope this helps

Would a condenser go bad that fast?

 

[Studdley]

Welcome and thank you for returning with "the info you need" for internet diagnosis.  

Cranking LONGER isn't going to "fix" problems you have.  If it won't start with starting fluid - says ALOT as to lack of spark/timing issues.    SHAKING also would be associated with an out of time/wrong order for secondary spark!

You also need to CLARIFY what you mean by "tighten rockers HALF ASSED"   As well as WHAT you have pedestal/stud and if the motor is hydraulic or solid lifters!    

1)   Where are you .  Profile says EAST and Midwest.   I ask because there are many in any area that can in 20 Mins time a motor.   (and of travel to other areas to buy cars and parts a lot)

2) Step back and reconfirm your work.   Start with the firing order and timing.   As suggested, confirm you have distributor installed on TDC of intake stroke and go from there once running.  

YOu can do this if you read, take your time and show/ask questions.  

Mark

I'm in southern Ohio, half assed meaning i just torqued all the rockers down to speck without rotating the crank for tdc of each cylinder, hydraulic lifters, I know the firing order is right and when I feel the the compression stroke on cylinder 1 the rotor is pointing straight at the number 1 wire

 

[Studdley]

Made a break through, found out there's TWICE as much oil as there should be (according to the dipstick, I checked multiple times), also I grounded battery cable to the water pump and realized that there was a gasket between the pump and block (what a dumbass), and moved the ground to the cylinder head, she was a bit more willing to start but not much. I'm thinking the over oiling is causing the starter to work harder and therefore take power away from the ignition to cause a spark. What do you all think?

 

[73pony]

Why is there so much oil in it? Should be 5 qts. Did you fill it? Where did the extra fluid come from? Is it milky? What is your coolant level?

 

[Studdley]

Why is there so much oil in it? Should be 5 qts. Did you fill it? Where did the extra fluid come from? Is it milky? What is your coolant level?

Because I'm a rock and when I put the heads on, I started the motor and poured oil on the valves to make sure I wasn't starting them dry, and I didn't think twice about it

 

[73pony]

I would drain the oil and refill to proper level. more is not better on an engine when it comes to oil.

That being said I don't see that causing your weak spark. My bet is that it is bad coil or condenser. Also you mentioned grounding to water pump then head. I have a ground strap to the block itself.

 

[will e]

I'm in southern Ohio, half assed meaning i just torqued all the rockers down to speck without rotating the crank for tdc of each cylinder, hydraulic lifters, I know the firing order is right and when I feel the the compression stroke on cylinder 1 the rotor is pointing straight at the number 1 wire

You need to redo this.  I wouldn't even try starting it again until you fix this.  No matter what you do with the ignition, if your valves are not opening and closing correctly you are going to have issues.   With any luck you haven't had a piston hit an open valve.

 

[Don C]

I agree with Mike, all of the valves have to be adjusted in sequence, when the lifter for each valve is at the bottom of its stroke. You have valves that won't even be opening. The shop manual tells you where to position the crank/dampener after you find TDC of #1 cylinder on compression stroke.

 

[Studdley]

I've made another break through, drained the oil, put in the proper amount, ground cable went to the heads, had the ignition timed properly, and now it gets super close to starting, but not quite. I'm thinking a carb rebuild should do the trick, the plugs dont foul anymore, and the engine doesn't seem to like choke...

 

[Don C]

If you haven't adjusted the valves correctly it will never start. At least half of the valves won't even be opening.

 

[Studdley]

If you haven't adjusted the valves correctly it will never start. At least half of the valves won't even be opening.

I also rebuilt the carb and put in a new vacuum secondary diaphragm, it started for 5 seconds, valves are next on the list

 

[will e]

If you haven't adjusted the valves correctly it will never start. At least half of the valves won't even be opening.

I also rebuilt the carb and put in a new vacuum secondary diaphragm, it started for 5 seconds, valves are next on the list

Yes, please do the valves!  The suspense is killing me!  Watch for bent push rods.  

Once you have done the valves I would give it a quick compression test to confirm equal pressure.

 

[Studdley]

I have readjusted the valves and they were off a bit, so that's a good sign, bad thing is that when I cranked it, it didn't fire so I'm thinking the ignition has gone awry, another interesting thing is that it pops and what not when I actuate the accelerator pump with the choke open, so is that not enough fuel, or not enough air, spark plugs are slightly blackened on the passenger side and look brand new on the driver side, carb is a Holley with the float bowls and barrels cast as one piece, any tuning tips?

 

[libram]

readjusted the valves....? Off a bit? Do you mean your timing was off? Did you pull the head and inspect the valves for damage?

 

[Studdley]

readjusted the valves....? Off a bit? Do you mean your timing was off? Did you pull the head and inspect the valves for damage?

I just torqued all the valves down carelessly, valves are all good

 

[Don C]

The popping can be either a too lean issue or ignition timing off.

How did you readjust the valves? Did you follow your procedure or did you do it the way the shop manual says?

The distributor rotor has to be pointed at #1 spark plug cable terminal, on the distributor cap, at TDC of the compression stroke on #1 cylinder. All of the spark cables must follow in the correct sequence and direction.

When you did the "top end rebuild" did you change the cam and/or timing chain?

It also sounds like you have a carburetor problem. What is the model number of the carburetor? They are usually on the front of the air horn on Holleys.

 

[Studdley]

The popping can be either a too lean issue or ignition timing off.

How did you readjust the valves? Did you follow your procedure or did you do it the way the shop manual says?

The distributor rotor has to be pointed at #1 spark plug cable terminal, on the distributor cap, at TDC of the compression stroke on #1 cylinder. All of the spark cables must follow in the correct sequence and direction.

When you did the "top end rebuild" did you change the cam and/or timing chain?

It also sounds like you have a carburetor problem. What is the model number of the carburetor? They are usually on the front of the air horn on Holleys.

I'll get back to you on the carb number it's a fairly old carb though, but I rebuilt the heads and decided against doing a cam, I know the timing is correct, and I redid the valves according to the Chiltons manual

 

[Don C]

From your description it sounds like it is a later model designed for emission controlled engines.

 

[Stanglover]

So, I'm just going to throw this into the mix. I believe you said you still had points in the distributor. Why not drop in a Pertronix Ignitor II and matching coil with their relay and run a full 12V to the coil. Also, is there ANY side play on the distributor shaft, i.e. slop. If so, it may be time for a new distributor as well. This has been a pet subject of mine lately, but from my personal experience, all the remans or aftermarket versions of the original Motorcraft dist. have way too much mechanical advance in them. The limit slot is often a 15L or 30 deg on the crank. You'll need a 10L or 20 deg plus 14-16 degrees of initial timing set in without vacuum, to give you the desired 34-36 total mechanical advance. You may have to get the 15L slot welded and recut as I did. I'm talking about Cleveland 351's here of course, so if I got the wrong engine, my bad, not read the entire post.

 

[Studdley]

So, I'm just going to throw this into the mix. I believe you said you still had points in the distributor. Why not drop in a Pertronix Ignitor II and matching coil with their relay and run a full 12V to the coil. Also, is there ANY side play on the distributor shaft, i.e. slop. If so, it may be time for a new distributor as well. This has been a pet subject of mine lately, but from my personal experience, all the remans or aftermarket versions of the original Motorcraft dist. have way too much mechanical advance in them. The limit slot is often a 15L or 30 deg on the crank. You'll need a 10L or 20 deg plus 14-16 degrees of initial timing set in without vacuum, to give you the desired 34-36 total mechanical advance. You may have to get the 15L slot welded and recut as I did. I'm talking about Cleveland 351's here of course, so if I got the wrong engine, my bad, not read the entire post.

The distributor is brand new and you do have the correct engine