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Fabrice's 429CJ 71 project


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You LIKE it dirty, Fabrice, I know - who else is laying across on top of the engine bay to reach in the cowl vents of his Mustang up to his elbows to prevent their top from the red plague :biggrin:

This alone sounds dirty spoken... :whistling: 

But hey, I know what you mean - I ripped off my hands once too in this area... :classic_ninja:

Like you do it with the heat gun sounds like a good plan + warming up the paint before! You don't wanna peal off the whole epoxy again... 

I hate winters temperatures and moisture :classic_wacko:

 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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On 11/30/2020 at 1:32 PM, Fabrice said:

Did not do much this weekend...
Saturday was about helping the friend of my oldest with a busted powerwindow mechanism on his VW Golf... man, I'm glad I don't own one of these things. Really not made to last..

 

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But the real reason I did not do much was not even the very cold weather we have here atm
It's because past week, I've finally successfully passed the tech control!! 

Above is the lady 73 waiting for the tech master in a cold sunny wind who was few mins late after lunch break.. I was bit anxious, but the pass on brakes test stand showed right away a good equal force and few details checks later, I got my papers!  Big smile on my face! :D

Sooo what do you do when it's very cold but dry and sunny on a Sunday?
Exactly! You drive the lady around and go to a mustang friend!

As night falls in late afternoon atm, I even got to test my pair of "Harley day breakers". 
Geez what a difference! Even if the focus is set according to the law, which is a bit too low for our long nose, there is no question about how they perform. For the non original guys, I'd say if you do not have LED headlights and drive in dark now and then, go get yourself a pair of these. Simply amazing and worth every Chinese pennies ! :D

Oh and there were some carb/EFI discussions last week.
Well I know now that even at -2 Celcius (that's "freakingCold" Fahrenheit)  the car starts on first starter rev, idles a bit higher than normal for a couple of secs and then stabilises as a modern car. No miss fires, no hesitation while engine warms up as you drive away.

 

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Tho Saturday, I've managed to do bits done on the 71. As the tower apron has been damaged and then poorly repared, I can't install the new front apron without fixing this first. As this apron is in 1.5 thick metal and metal looked alright and strong around the damaged area, decided to "L" cut it vs do a straight cut. The reason is the recess where the support (see bellow) needs to be welded on in sandwich.
Cutting it straight would mean to somehow build some strong tool to press down the thick metal to recreate this lower plane...  plan B it is!  :D

As you can see on the pict, I've instead first folded it to match the 2 angles, and then hammered the side to match the little side going down. Keeping extra metal around, which I could cut after all would be welded in place.

 

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The before and after. Clearly looks better and some hard pull/pushes told me it's not going anywhere! So as I needed to help to fix this @#$ Golf power window, applied in a hurry some primer and will get back to it next week.

 

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While busy, the ugly rusty too short reinforcement fixed last weekend received the usual massage and should be good to go for next week todo as well. It's still ugly but it's now strong, of the right length and should remain rust free for a while :D


To be continued..

hi Fabrice, that ugly rusty too short panel you referred to above, do you know if its repopped anywhere? i am missing it on my driver side so whoever previously replaced apron didn't fabricate a replacement reinforcement panel.  I can't say I blame them it doesn't look like it adds any support, well certainly the one on the passenger side feels like it's just not supporting the apron. Else I will need to fabricate a mirror image of the passenger side version.

PS - I just got my battery apron support panel in the post from Dan, thanks Dan !

Edited by baz70
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@baz70 No they are not reproduced. In fact looks like none of the reinforcements are made or even part of the aprons that are offered. The double 1.5mm thick for the hood hinges for instance, or the extra plate for the windshield fluid reservoir etc...
 

The reinforcement on top of both the apron really make a massive diff in stiffness, do not weld the apron without one (unless you like the idea to have a car weak as a loukoum in case of an impact and extra torsion due to weight of the batt). If you do not feel the fx on the side that has it, it's likely because the welds at tower connection where it's hold by 2 weld points in the recess where it's sandwiched gave up by either a shock or corrosion. being part of the apron and aligned, it also prevent to get metal "tiredness" on the radiator support connection.

Even with the apron in my hands, I could feel how strong it had become after I welded it. Its really not there for nothing!

Look at the pict of the other side where I have repaired the tower top. The recess is exactly 1.5mm deep and where that thing must be sandwiched. Its aprox 7 cm above tower apron and bellow the 2 angles of the apron for the rest of the length till radiator support. 

If you can't locate one (ask bentworker btw, he has a 72 going to the crusher any day now, he could cut them out for you i'm sure)
Let fold/break 2 pieces of 1.5mm following the angles (you can provide a piece of the old one for that)
with an extra fold going outwards to really have the expected added strength. or weld a squarish tube.
But I really would not weld the apron as provided without one or something that does the same...
Your call of course ;)

oh and forgot to say last week: good luck making the fenders nuts holes. They are the most tedious part of the work if you want them to look a bit like the original ones and be able to install the j nuts in there without problems.

Edited by Fabrice

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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ok I will definitely put it back in. I'll send you a PM, would be good to get some pics of the part and show you the one i have on the passenger side so I might be able to fabricate by copying that. I'll PM Bentworker now :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

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Sorry for the delay in my updates, I went to the end of the world and when I saw it was as cold as at my place where we're in bellow freeze temps for ages, I went back!

To be honest, the real reason is that my oldest daughter bought her first place and some stuffs needs to be done, so I've spent 3 weekends doing NON mustangs things.
So here's some of the things I've done with few hours I had left this past 4 weekends...

 

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After a good derust of the inside of my cowlvent, it was time to handle the firewall. Because the only paint stripper that reacted to the custom paint layers that were applied over the years, did some research on the best product I could find in Europe as better alternatives like Aircraft are prohibited over here. I wasn't really looking forward to sand down that firewall by hand, as many places are not even allowing mechanical solutions to help my poor paintstripper. In luck, found out this product was like magic also offered as a new item at the place where I bought most my stuff. Not cheap, but certainly worth it if it would work...

So despite a temperature just few degrees above freeze point in my garage, I've applied with a brush a first layer (wearing my paint mask at all time, because the smell told me it would also remove the paint in my lungs if I did not)

Not 5 minutes later, the paint that so far none of my chemicals got further than becoming soft was peeling and popping up in many places! Yesssssss! :D

 

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The first pass removed at least 2 of the layers, or better said, got them so soft that using a metallic brush and/or a bondo knife was enough to remove it all really easy. Tho, It was clear a second pass would be required, as it turns out once it evaporates, the paint returns in a more solid state that makes it again hard to remove.
During warm and dry days, I think using a plastic sheet to let it work longer before it evaporates would be a must. 

 

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In the end, let's say a small pint of that thick liquid was enough to get the firewall till the transmission mounts free of paint, all in less than 2 hours without much efforts. A pretty impressive elbow oil saving!! :D
Another great property is that the rests on the ground are not staying soft/goo like as with my other paint remover. But after all was done, ventilating and let the dutch cold air enter the garage was a must. Even so, I've kept my mask with filter on and left the garage till next day.
 

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Of course, in corners and under the cowlvent lip, the rust had made some nests. So next was my beloved phosphoric acid, spraying it at 20% with warm water on a pre-hitted metal. 2 hours later with only few help of a metallic hand brush to speed up the process, the rust was gone and it was time for a soda rinse. Let's just say that at this point my garage floor was not looking that good! :D

 

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I can now mark the firewall, cowl vent in and out as rust free and now in a temporary zinc layer, they can wait for warmer days without chance of corrosion..

 

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Another perl that I've found during paint (and bondo) removal was that the front member had a dent at the eye for the strut rod anchor. Not really structurally of importance, simply highly annoying to my eyes, I decided to do something about it. At first I thought I could slam it back from the hole of the rod on the other side, I tried but limited by space to really slam hard enough and the angle at which the impacts were possible, it was clear it was time to use the good old plan B...

After inspecting the damage and thinking about what I would need to do to put everything back (there is not much space to move the torch on the front due to the radiator support and the idea being to have really solid welds), I've cut where the metal was most bended and where I was certain to be able to lay a solid weld bead.
Because of the dent shape and the way it was distorted, I've cut underneath a tad more and of course after the arch was restored, I needed to add more metal at the right angle to the patch. Welded it both sides and ended up after grinding with a solid patch slightly bigger than the hole in the cross member, in order to have enough material over to set it back as flush, close as possible with enough meat for a V shape connection...

 

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Ater a few gymnastic moments and upsidedown welding session, ended up with a solid repair. Most work went on the curve/lip where of course no grinder can go. Files, and dremmel cutting discs got me there.

 

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It was time to give it an acid bath followed by a soda pass, heat gun it dry in and out before spray some rust protective epoxy as I was out of zinc primer last week. A day on a stoopid dent passed...

 

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I did also more things, as next is to do the lower frame/parts of the engine bay, I needed to lift the car and remove suspension and steering components. 
Here a nice impression of the brakes, which had new brake pads!! Coil spring out, still fighting to remove the lower arm (penetrating oil is working for me as I type)

 

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Also started on the driver outer side (here a 4 weeks old pict), but I'll post more picts on these beauties later on. :D

All with all, despite the very cold weather and lack of time, some progress is slowly made..
To be continued...
 

Edited by Fabrice
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73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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You did more than the half forum in 4 hours anyway :whistling:

Congratz - good progress, happy to see! 

Whats the matter with the lower control arm? The nuts on the engine compartment? 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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@timachone, ahahaha, yeah probably. It's hard to get some motivation in this cold weather.

The upper and lower ball joints are not working with me. The top one went loose after I've asked kindly with a respectable hammer to let go, but after that, the rod being free rotates if I try to turn the turn that i've kept on for a few threads to not damage it (it will be replaced, but old monkey me always keep the nut on flush with rod before slam to prevent balljoints to become air born :)  ). It's a revetted model and the nuts on top sturn with the rivets. So now it's all about pressing while turning... after 1/2 hour and half nut gain, I thought It was good idea to go do something else..  I don't want damage the upper arm as I have new balljoints and new axle on other side for it. I'll cut these rivets once secure on vice.

The lower one is the stubborn one, the spindle is in the way, and you can't hit it the way you want. You can't really use a Y/fork type extractor either there because of the surrounding metal. So might need to pile up some material in between once the upper one is out or remove the whole shebang and use my vice later on to free the lower arm... Oh well, It's now in penetrating oil, and I'll add more once or twice before I try again next weekend.
I'll win at some point ;)

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73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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14 hours ago, Fabrice said:

nextTime_2.thumb.jpg.1f1343ccea29516196556d637ff87b2f.jpg

Also started on the driver outer side (here a 4 weeks old pict), but I'll post more picts on these beauties later on. :D

All with all, despite the very cold weather and lack of time, some progress is slowly made..
To be continued...
 

Your work and tenacity as always is amazing.  I don’t think I have the same level of patience, but I am trying.  Yours is a gift!   

I am curious about the hole in the cowl/firewall that is visible here.  It appears to be in the drivers fender well, but I don’t think there is supposed to be a hole there.  

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1931 Ford Model A Station Wagon
1969 Mach 1 - 351C, TKO-600, 4WDB, R&P, A/C, Shaker, Fold Down, etc.
1972 Mach 1 - 351C, FMX, PDB, PS, A/C, Fold Down, Console
1996 Mustang Cobra Convertible - 10psi Procharger, 436rwhp

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7 hours ago, 69 Rustang said:

Your work and tenacity as always is amazing.  I don’t think I have the same level of patience, but I am trying.  Yours is a gift!   

I am curious about the hole in the cowl/firewall that is visible here.  It appears to be in the drivers fender well, but I don’t think there is supposed to be a hole there.  

This is the special access hole for the infamous fuse block you had to order by the original dealer. There you have much better acces than from under the steering wheel! But it is a very rare add-on... 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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18 hours ago, Fabrice said:

@timachone, ahahaha, yeah probably. It's hard to get some motivation in this cold weather.

The upper and lower ball joints are not working with me. The top one went loose after I've asked kindly with a respectable hammer to let go, but after that, the rod being free rotates if I try to turn the turn that i've kept on for a few threads to not damage it (it will be replaced, but old monkey me always keep the nut on flush with rod before slam to prevent balljoints to become air born :)  ). It's a revetted model and the nuts on top sturn with the rivets. So now it's all about pressing while turning... after 1/2 hour and half nut gain, I thought It was good idea to go do something else..  I don't want damage the upper arm as I have new balljoints and new axle on other side for it. I'll cut these rivets once secure on vice.

The lower one is the stubborn one, the spindle is in the way, and you can't hit it the way you want. You can't really use a Y/fork type extractor either there because of the surrounding metal. So might need to pile up some material in between once the upper one is out or remove the whole shebang and use my vice later on to free the lower arm... Oh well, It's now in penetrating oil, and I'll add more once or twice before I try again next weekend.
I'll win at some point ;)

Ok, I am in front of the same struggles and looking forward how it will evolve... As both arm types aren't the original ones on mine anymore I will change them completely with Moog's. If all good parts for changing components added some ready assembled control arms are about the same. That will only do for original ones to the car in my opinion. 

Do you have a c-clamp? Like those which can separate older Mercedes-Benz control arms? They are big and chunky but I thing they could work very well on the control arms of our cars... 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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@69 Rustang 

I'm not sure which hole you talk about.But the one you see here is the result of some "custom" work, ment to reroute the electrics thru fender side to have a clean engine bay. The guy who did this (and many other things on the car) for my friend, was basically a butcher with 2 left hands.
Here a pict of the professional install that was done and the nicely crafted extra holes he made on the apron because of course, some wires needed to enter there as well. In the engine bay, the 2 round holes at the most right next to booster location, were "foamed" closed. Kept them closed for now that way as it prevents paint and dust to enter. No need to say, I might bring some changes to that once I have the dashboard out ;)

https://ibb.co/KVk8Mq9

 

@timachone, I have moogs parts for the upper arm, but I will restore the much thicker upper arm than use a repop. Also looking at similar quality for the lower arm and all steering ball joints. But as 429 and 71 in general are often having little diffs with 72 and 73. I wait to have all out to then measure and order the right stuffs. I do have c-clamp and other options to push it back in. I will get that f...r out don't worry ;)

 

 

 

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71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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  • 1 month later...

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It's been a while since i've posted an update...
Been busy at my daughter's new place doing non mustang things. We also had here a deep dive in temp that slowed everything down and when it was warmer, I've been busy enjoying my 73 spirit as well (after fixing an exhaust leak )

 

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For past weeks I've been busy removing everything on the front: suspension, brakes, steering components...
Something that could be done in few hours (as seen on my 73) turned into days, as each and every balljoint refused to let go as if they were welded.
Slam next to the balljoint, use fork, use big harmer, tick it there, push here, heat it there etc...  yeah all fine on non rusted components that has been at least serviced once or twice... but on a 71 with original rusty equipment it was really a big pain to get all loose. Read BIG pain!
I must say the security pins made me smile a few times :)


It's then been about looking at what I can save/ want to keep, and I've ordered after that loads of Moogs things. Basically tie rods, ends, sleeve, callipers, idler arm, pitman arm, saddles etc... they all need to be replaced.
Some are already here, some still swimming.

Once defined who's gonna stay, it was time to spit into my hands and get to it. Not in chronologycal order and spread over a few weekend already, here's a few images of the work done so far...

 

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The rotors guards (whatever these are called), rusted, dented. They both met my hammer to regain both round and straight shape. They've been paint stripped (crazy enough one still had 50% of its original paint stil on), they then enjoyed a couple of days in my acid bath.

 

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Once the rust was gone, after a good wooling, they've enjoyed an electrons massage and returned to a good as new state.

 

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Small or big parts, they all need some massage considering the "patina". Here the back plates, now enjoying a second life...

 

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More complicated to plate and more demanding on my small power source (which I need upgrade before i can do the spindles), one of the calliper's holder, that is on the spindle is now protected as well but will probably go for a second round once I can crank up the power a tad more.

 

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One of the top arms is also done and tradded its brown jasket for a bling bling one! :D
I didn't polish anything and won't as it's all about being and stay rust free. So the old rust pits and other imperfections will remain till I apply a layer of epoxy and light sand them before paint finish them. The bearings and ball joints for them are in house. I'll probably place the bearings back in before paint, as some serious force is required and the paint would likely be damaged in the process.

 

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Of course, while the bubbling was going on, I needed be kept busy, and that's exactly what the front exterior body did.
Spend first time to remove tons of debris collected over the years, removed as much as possible of the old bitumes that had dried over time and let my new friend paint remover do its trick. After 2 glasses and 3 passes of that stinky  goo thingy, simple hand brushing got me to the metal. Next on the todo is to locally apply some acid to the surprisingly rare rust spots and cover that baby in zinc primer till temperature is way higher than it is now...

So far pretty amazed how that stuff is effective and how it reduces efforts near zero. No mechanical tools required and metal stays pristine.

I'll try be less lazy in the evenings and try post more often again as I used to! ;)


To be continued...


 

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73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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Fabrice, 

welcome back :thumb: 

Nice work you did! I am in the same state, disassembling the whole supsension and the brake system. Nice to see some of the parts in already cleaned condition I will restore, too :thumb:  Could you reuse your calipers? 

Acid baths (I use some sort of not so acid, Evaporust) does wonders. 1 week or 2 and the parts are cleaned of rust, dirt and grime. 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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9 hours ago, midlife said:

You're alive!

and kicking :D

@timachone
Yeah I saw you've been busy too!! I have everything out now. One detail remains: the pitman arm. I need an extractor for it, but now, as the steering box is out, I can work on bench.

the callipers...

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Evaporust is fine, but what I dislike is that it quickly looses its power as it saturates and turns black. It also doesn't leave any film (phosphoric acid leaves an iron phosphate layer if you let it dry (heat gun) so it can wait if you need to paint. It washes away with water (or even better with baking soda to have ph neutral for any paint)  
I have a permanent bath in garage for 3 years now, done and still do countless parts and need them  really pristine for zinc plating (if not, plating would flake away within a week). It never stops to work, it's super cheap and results are perfect over and over. Only low temps slows down the fx. 2 weeks ago for instance, it took a full week at near freeze temp to get the upper arm rust free, while it took just a night to have both rotor guards rust free with temp around 10c in garage past weekend. In summer or if i'd warm bath up, you see the rust melt before your eyes.

Small question:
Found this protection on one side only. How is this called? I haven't seen it on my 73 either. Not even sure if they are really necessary. Have you seen them on yours?

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73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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Just "Simple Minds" :biggrin: 

For the pitman arm: do you have a 2-claw or a 3-claw extractor? That could do it... 

Sounds good for you anti-rust solution - for me Evaporust had the charme it's not toxic, ready to use, no smell and easy to manage in the house. Better with some children, wife and dog... After washing the parts with water I spray them with some oil so nothing can rust until I will paint them. Your solution will be the much cheaper though... 

I have never seen this "protection shield" on mine or any other Mustang :classic_blink:

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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That piece should be reinstalled when you re-do the brakes. Most brake parts rebuild kits include it and it helps to stabilize the caliper and I believe, for anti rattling purposes. 

"Yes dear", has kept me in the hobby a long time...

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53 minutes ago, 7173Vert said:

That piece should be reinstalled when you re-do the brakes. Most brake parts rebuild kits include it and it helps to stabilize the caliper and I believe, for anti rattling purposes. 

Interesting! 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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30 minutes ago, timachone said:

Interesting! 

Floating caliper secured to the main hub with this bracket. I just completed this brake job on my 73 Coupe. Ford refers to it as a "stabilizer" in the Master parts catalogue.

73 Light Gold Coupe101.jpg

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"Yes dear", has kept me in the hobby a long time...

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@timachone

I only use armless products as I don't want to grow a third arm on my forehead :D
That you use phosphoric acid or evaporust, you don't want the kids or dogs playing around with that for sure!! Worse, having the wife around while working :O!!!
FYI, I plate the zinc with vinegar, salt and sugar!! If you read back this thread you will see I have even plated copper with baking soda! (with great results too lol) :D I also do not passivate the zinc the way pro's do using chromates (AKA poison, the yellow one especially). All my "juices" are reused over and over. 
I did plate few small parts with nickel (radiator brackets, trunk latches, hood latches), and the acetate that I made in low quantity (2 liters), is in this state mild toxic, it's kept in a sealed container till I need to plate nickel again.

For the pitman arm, i've ordered one extractor with other missing details for my steering components at rockauto, which is surprisingly friendly for shipment to Europe vs many other shops. So will remove it in 2 weeks.

 

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73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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8 minutes ago, 7173Vert said:

Ford refers to it as a "stabilizer" in the Master parts catalogue.

I've search for these and I did not see that "gasket" anywhere.
I have the plates in house as shown on your pict (as part of a 71 rebuild kit) they were NOT on my 71, only that gasket thingy. The 4 small bolts holes are also not present on the original 71 parts for that plate. I renewed my brakes on my 73, 2 months ago, and there is indeed that plate but no "gasket".

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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