Jump to content

Revisiting installing a Hayden 2710 fan clutch and Derale 17118 fan.


Recommended Posts

Just a quick question; no need for a long drawn out response. 

I'm looking ahead to Spring when I intend to swap out the factory 4 blade air thrashing fan on my 351 C M code, for the recommended Hayden 2710 fan clutch and the Derale 17118 6 blade fan. 

My question is; what, if any, do I need to order to mount this to the (factory) water pump? Or will it simply bolt to the pump without the aluminum spacer with new bolts? If so, what grade and length will I need? I know we have discussed this before, but I don't seem to be able to find the answer to these questions, hence revisiting the subject. 

Another thing I found is the price of these parts is all over the place. RockAuto are cheapest for the Hayden 2710, but they don't list the fan. Summit Racing probably are closest. I can order the fan from Amazon.ca for get this; $128.00 Cad, free shipping with Prime. Summit price is $52 Cad plus shipping. I guess I'll be buying from Summit.

 

Edited by Stanglover

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 69
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Chris, there are two versions of the 2710, one thermal, one not. I think you have the non-thermal one. It says right in the description about the non-thermal staying engaged.  As for a spacer, I

I believe the non-thermal is 1710. The thermal fan still spins at a reduced rate (20-30%) when disengaged.

You're absolutely right Don. I just went on R/A site and confirmed that and was just about to correct myself. Ya beat me too it!  

Posted Images

I have a Hayden 2765 clutch and a 6 blade fan from WCCC on my car.  I have do idea what the difference is between the 2710 and the 2765, but mine uses a pilot adapter bushing, as the hole in the clutch is larger than the water pump pilot.  In my case I don’t have any spacers.  
 

I think the bolts to the water pump are 3/4”  long 5/16”-18.  The ones that came from WCCC are some sort of reproduction bolt and I have no idea what the head markings translate to in grade.

We might be comparing apples and oranges between the two setups...

image.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bentworker said:

I have a Hayden 2765 clutch and a 6 blade fan from WCCC on my car.  I have do idea what the difference is between the 2710 and the 2765, but mine uses a pilot adapter bushing, as the hole in the clutch is larger than the water pump pilot.  In my case I don’t have any spacers.  
 

I think the bolts to the water pump are 3/4”  long 5/16”-18.  The ones that came from WCCC are some sort of reproduction bolt and I have no idea what the head markings translate to in grade.

We might be comparing apples and oranges between the two setups...

 

 Thanks Bentworker for your input. I'll check your part number, but I think it might be because you are using grooved pulleys/belts, whereas I'm using normal V belts. 

I've been doing some research as well, NPD list the bolt kit for the fan clutch, but basically just ordinary bolts, probably G8.  as for prices, they vary quite a lot for the same thing, but locating the Derale 18" fan is more of a challenge. RockAuto don't list it for any vehicle, but they sell the fan clutch. If this is the way I go, it looks like my best supplier will be Summit Racing as I can at least buy and ship all at one time........... when they have stock! There is no rush right now of course, so still time to locate another supplier that ships into Canada.

Thanks again,

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dorman makes a stud kit to mount the clutch to the water pump flange. I don't have the part number handy but Hemikiller has posted it here before on several occasions.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, TommyK said:

Dorman makes a stud kit to mount the clutch to the water pump flange. I don't have the part number handy but Hemikiller has posted it here before on several occasions.

 Yes thanks. I found that while researching. 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bentworker said:

I have a Hayden 2765 clutch and a 6 blade fan from WCCC on my car.  I have do idea what the difference is between the 2710 and the 2765, but mine uses a pilot adapter bushing, as the hole in the clutch is larger than the water pump pilot.  In my case I don’t have any spacers.  I think the bolts to the water pump are 3/4”  long 5/16”-18.  The ones that came from WCCC are some sort of reproduction bolt and I have no idea what the head markings translate to in grade.

We might be comparing apples and oranges between the two setups...

 

Bentworker, Doing some more digging, I found that the 2765 is actually listed for Jaguar, but it seems it is used on other installations that require a lower profile fan clutch, i.e. for aluminum or 3 core rads. In other words, made to fit applications it was not intended for. That would be why you needed an adaptor. 

Because I have a 3 core rad, I may just order both the 2710 and 2765. If necessary, I can get an adaptor machined at my old workplace if I'm unable to find something off the shelf. If someone can give the correct dimensions for that, I would be grateful.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was unable to copy the link, but in July of 2013, a member, mdan575 posted on installing a Hayden 2710 on his 302. From that, I was able to find out that there is a bushing supplied with the fan clutch and as the same part is listed for the 302 and 351C, all should be good. Finding a correct bushing adaptor for the 2765, will be address as and when.

Thanks to all for the great help,

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Geoff, If you still need any other info on this I put one one my car. I remember there being two different lengths for the fan. Pretty sure I used the shorter one with a 3/4” spacer. I do have a 3 row rad. I found a couple pics.

6D320D01-CC0F-47A0-BAFB-40C579410795.thumb.jpeg.d81e930845069e6a08cfa51464571235.jpegBAC96947-E0C5-4E3C-AEFF-3A6C3C19E7DE.thumb.jpeg.d6fbb7213fd7f61a6bef69813026d2ed.jpeg

John - 72 Q Code

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks John, The clutch looks pretty close to the rad. You said " I remember there being two different lengths for the FAN" I assume you meant fan clutch shaft spacer at 3/4". Can you confirm.

As I said, I can order both the 2710 and the 2765, then return the one I don't want.... or sell it.

Thanks for the pics. Looks good.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I got the clutch and Dorman bolts for mine from Rock Auto. No spacer with my 3 row radiator. My clutch NEVER disengages even in the winter which is kind of frustrating. By the time it's done with it's initial spinning which they all do, I'm well enough into the heat to keep it locked up all the time. That's in the garage at idle. I'm not sure what it's doing while driving. Hopefully there is some amount of slippage occurring saving me a couple mpg and adding a couple more hp. But who really knows. 

 

Edited by Big Red Mach 1

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Big Red Mach 1 said:

I think I got the clutch and Dorman bolts for mine from Rock Auto. No spacer with my 3 row radiator. My clutch NEVER disengages even in the winter which is kind of frustrating. By the time it's done with it's initial spinning which they all do, I'm well enough into the heat to keep it locked up all the time. That's in the garage at idle. I'm not sure what it's doing while driving. Hopefully there is some amount of slippage occurring saving me a couple mpg and adding a couple more hp. But who really knows. 

 

Chris, there are two versions of the 2710, one thermal, one not. I think you have the non-thermal one. It says right in the description about the non-thermal staying engaged. 

As for a spacer, I think that refers to the length of the shaft on the fan clutch and not an extra separate spacer added. The 2765 from what I was able to figure out, has a shorter shaft, but again as this one was intended for a Jag, it may require a different bushing to size the hole to fit the Ford water pump. That's what I think it means anyways. For the mounting studs, I am going to use 5/16' fine thread G8 bolts with blue loctite and spring washers. That's what the fan is held on by anyway.

  • Like 1

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the non-thermal is 1710. The thermal fan still spins at a reduced rate (20-30%) when disengaged.

  • Like 1

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Don C said:

I believe the non-thermal is 1710. The thermal fan still spins at a reduced rate (20-30%) when disengaged.

You're absolutely right Don. I just went on R/A site and confirmed that and was just about to correct myself. Ya beat me too it!

 

  • Like 1

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn. I didn't catch the thermal/non-thermal. Thanks for the head's up!

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Big Red Mach 1 said:

Hopefully there is some amount of slippage occurring saving me a couple mpg and adding a couple more hp.

You could go electric only too. I see mine with both, that when I shut the car when it was at operating temp, the electric fan starts few seconds later, runs a few and stops. Pretty sure I could run the car with that one only, at least during winter.

  • Like 1

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are definitely correct. There is a 2710 that is thermal, and also has the longer shaft like the 1710. According to Rock Auto it will work on a Mustang from 67-79. Clearly, I bought the 1710. Definitely going to order a 2710 now. Again, thanks for the head's up. 

Chris - BIG RED MACH 1

Born in '73 - Drive a '73

Former U.S. Army 63B10-H8

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's some more information. It appears that some of the fan clutches come with the bushing, based on the clutch specifications. Here are the specs for the two that have been discussed, as well as a low profile clutch. The bushings are available at Summit, as well as a bunch of spacers

Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

I couldn't find any listing on the Hayden web site. I believe they are included where it shows the two sizes under the pilor diameter.

 

Fan Clutches.jpg

Edited by Don C

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Don C said:

Here's some more information. It appears that some of the fan clutches come with the bushing, based on the clutch specifications. Here are the specs for the two that have been discussed, as well as a low profile clutch. The bushings are available at Summit, as well as a bunch of spacers

Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

I couldn't find any listing on the Hayden web site. I believe they are included where it shows the two sizes under the pilor diameter.

 

Fan Clutches.jpg

 That's awesome info there Don, Thanks for finding and posting that.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I mean the fan clutch shaft. I have a 1/2”spacer added and the front of the clutch is about 2/12” from the radiator. 

John - 72 Q Code

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, for a post that I thought would just be quick and dirty, it is getting very interesting and informative. It definitely means I need to do some more research to confirm the fan I'm thinking of and that was mentioned in an earlier thread, will indeed fit either the 2710 or 2765 and now I see there is another possibility,  the 2947. Lets think of it another way, we're in a lockdown here in Ontario, so I  have nothing better to do to keep me out of trouble.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jpaz said:

Yes, I mean the fan clutch shaft. I have a 1/2”spacer added and the front of the clutch is about 2/12” from the radiator. 

 More good info, thanks John.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doing a bit more digging, I find that the 2947 is a heavy duty clutch and runs at 70-90% of water pump speed, but has the advantage of being quite a bit lower profile suited for fan with a greater pitch, 2 - 2/12", whereas the 2710 or 2765 are for fans with a pitch of 1 - 1 1/2". Now to check into suitable fans although I'm pretty sure it will be the Derale 17118 I'll chose. Any thoughts?

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The higher pitch fans are louder and place more load on the engine.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dorman 23733 is the water pump stud kit. Most auto parts stores have them in stock. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-Help-23733-Water-Pump/dp/B000CO779G

 

2947 was used in a lot of Ford trucks of various option loads, probably not necessary for a Mustang. I'm running a 2710 currently on my 71 and just bought a new one. I figure 15 years is a long enough service life and with the new engine going in, just replace it. 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Hemikiller said:

Dorman 23733 is the water pump stud kit. Most auto parts stores have them in stock. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-Help-23733-Water-Pump/dp/B000CO779G

 

2947 was used in a lot of Ford trucks of various option loads, probably not necessary for a Mustang. I'm running a 2710 currently on my 71 and just bought a new one. I figure 15 years is a long enough service life and with the new engine going in, just replace it. 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that for the 2947 Hemikiller. It was not really an option, but the number came up, so worth checking out for information only.

So, on your car, are you using a thicker or 3 core rad and do you have good clearance, or would there be no issue regardless, therefore no need to buy the alternative 2765 as a "just in case" sort of thing.

I appreciate all the interest and offerings from everyone.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...