.040 cleveland temp.

[protree]

I have a flat top 351c with closed chamber heads that heats up at idle. I have added a aluminum radiator and flex fan with shroud and it still heats up slowly. Every change I have made has helped a bit but after discovering it is .040 over is it possible to keep cool. I have the correct thermostat in it after getting the wrong one and then doing a bit of research. This car is my daughters so I need it to run cool enough that she won't overheat in traffic. The next step is to add a/c so it will really have to be right before I attempt that. I'm adding a 8 qt pan and I may add an oil cooler while I'm at it. My next thing to try is a bit smaller pulley on the water pump and maybe convert the aluminum radiator to a 3 pass . I know all the steps to improve the cooling but what I'm not familiar with is the thin cylinders. So what I'm asking is does anyone on here know of a .040 over cleveland that runs cool on the street. I have had and built dozens of windsors and other types of motors but not clevelands. I have access to a pretty nice .030 block but wonder if that is even a big enough step in the right direction.

 

[turtle5353]

I ran my old Cleveland at 040 over. I never had any trouble with overheating even in bumper to bumper traffic. I didn't have anything special for the cooling system. I used the stock radiator and water pump. also stock thermostat. This probably don't help you, but yes you can keep a 040 over Cleveland cool even with the stock cooling system. Are you running your shroud? I have seen a lot of motors overheat from not having the fan shroud installed.

 

[goodnigh]

Clevelands should not overheat. Do you have the correct thermostat?

Not just heat range but a Cleveland specific type. There is a difference.

A Cleveland thermostat has a rim on it.

mike

 

[72HCODE]

Do you have a 2 row rad only, is there a fan shroud? Do you have the fan deflector plate that goes on top of the rad and fills the top gap to the shroud? Required on AC cars.

I had a stock 2 row rad, I took it to a rad shop and had them install a high efficiency core with trans cooler upgrade. The EF core has many more fins then a standard core. It acts better then a 3 row rad. Additionally a fan shroud will drop engine temps big time.

For AC cars ford added a top fan deflector this is a short piece of plastic that clips from the top of the rad back over the radiator support sheet metal and fills about a 4" air gap between the rad and the fan shroud. It dropped my engine temperature almost 10 degrees. Just that tiny little piece of plastic. The EF core made a big difference as well.

Or you upgrade to a 3 row or go after market.

 

[jeff8877]

"For AC cars ford added a top fan deflector this is a short piece of plastic that clips from the top of the rad back over the radiator support sheet metal and fills about a 4" air gap between the rad and the fan shroud. It dropped my engine temperature almost 10 degrees. Just that tiny little piece of plastic."

72HCode...always enjoy your posts and learn something new each time. I can't picture the fan deflector nor seem to recall ever seeing one. Can you point me to an example pic...thanks much.

Jeff

 

[tommy]

Had this problem on a Hemi we built. Overheated at idle we checked everything even pulled the heads back off.

turned out to be the flexi fan as we had taken the stock fan and shroud off and replaced with this chrome flexi fan.

Put the shroud and old fan back on and all fixed .what a pain in the ass that was !

 

[wwhite72]

Clevelands should not overheat. Do you have the correct thermostat?

Not just heat range but a Cleveland specific type. There is a difference.

A Cleveland thermostat has a rim on it.

+1 I have seen more than a few people discover that their "correct" thermostat was not correct. also you need the brass bypass disc installed or it doesnt matter! also, did you install a new waterpump? they become less effective over time. Did you install a new lower rad hose? did you put in the spring? the hose will collapse at higher rpm and starve the cooling system.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I don't have my Temp gauge hooked up yet, but my .060-over 351C is running spot-on at 180-ish at idle. I have a Ready Rad 3-core from Advance Auto Parts, along with a repop fan shroud from OMS, Classic Auto Air A/C condenser, and a 7-blade fan that came off my pal's '63.5 Galaxie 500 XL (it was obviously the wrong one for his 390 car).

I'm getting those temp readings with a laser thermometer - so they might be just a tad different, depending on locations.

Glad to have found the info about the fan deflector plate - gotta get one now. I'm sure I'll be needing every advantage I can get out here in "Typical Triple-Digit West Texas." Not to mention preventing all the tools from dropping down between the condenser and radiator. rofl

 

[marks73]

I don't have my Temp gauge hooked up yet, but my .060-over 351C is running spot-on at 180-ish at idle. I have a Ready Rad 3-core from Advance Auto Parts, along with a repop fan shroud from OMS, Classic Auto Air A/C condenser, and a 7-blade fan that came off my pal's '63.5 Galaxie 500 XL (it was obviously the wrong one for his 390 car).

I'm getting those temp readings with a laser thermometer - so they might be just a tad different, depending on locations.

Glad to have found the info about the fan deflector plate - gotta get one now. I'm sure I'll be needing every advantage I can get out here in "Typical Triple-Digit West Texas." Not to mention preventing all the tools from dropping down between the condenser and radiator. rofl

.060! WOOF! Was your block sonic tested?

 

[Mister 4x4]

Not sure about sonic tested, but the machine shop said it was still a good block (despite how it looked when I pulled it out). The machinist also said it should be just fine with my intent for daily driving, since I'm not planning on racing it or much of any really 'hard' driving. The key is to keep it cool, and it should do well. So far, so good.

He regularly builds race cars and runs 'em at local/regional drag strips (usually does pretty well, too). I told him the plan, mentioned the cam specs, pistons, roller set-up, and everything else, and he liked the choices I'd made. He's run .060 Clevelands before with good luck, but he mostly runs Chevy 383s since they're so much cheaper. The only reason they went that far was because of a scar in the #4 from when it was rusted in there. He'd asked if I wanted to sleeve it and stick with .040, or go .060. Not knowing much about sleeving at the time, I went with .060, after he told me what he thought about it. (I figured that having one cylinder sleeved would've been a bad thing... now, not so much). I also figured that if it was such a big issue, they wouldn't actually make .060 pistons and rings.

Hey, if it gives up, I'll either get 'em all sleeved and go back down to .030, or start with a new block (now that I know my set-up seems to be working).

 

[clevelandcoupe]

Guys,

My engine builder, who has completed too many clevelands to count, says that any block over .030 is scrap. The cylinder walls are way too thin to be consistent with temperatures. I have two motors that are .010 and .020 with aluminum heads and have no issues.

Good luck.

Thanks, Jay

 

[Mister 4x4]

Guys,

My engine builder, who has completed too many clevelands to count, says that any block over .030 is scrap. The cylinder walls are way too thin to be consistent with temperatures. I have two motors that are .010 and .020 with aluminum heads and have no issues.

Good luck.

Thanks, Jay

Thanks Jay - appreciate the sentiment, but: Noted.

Not trying to be a douche and start a flame war, but the key issue here is helping protree get his .040 Cleveland cooled down. Even though I stepped out into traffic with my .060 comments (only to help demonstrate that it's possible to cool an engine with bigger bores without the need for expensive performance parts), at the end of the day protree needs some actual helpful advice.

 

[goodnigh]

I'm getting those temp readings with a laser thermometer - so they might be just a tad different, depending on locations.

Those laser thermometers are cheap these days and a must have.

Had a heating/cooling problem and aimed the laser at the radiator

out hose ~160, measured the water pump at 230. There is

something wrong here. If you have cylinder miss-firing you can

check the temp of the spark plug to find the cold one.

mike

 

[72HCODE]

I'm .40 over no overheating but I took precautions.

Most Clevelands are good to .60 over after that the cylinders are real thin.

Many things effect the heat on the engine. Spark plugs you can control the heat range.

The rad and the type of fan.

"For AC cars ford added a top fan deflector this is a short piece of plastic that clips from the top of the rad back over the radiator support sheet metal and fills about a 4" air gap between the rad and the fan shroud. It dropped my engine temperature almost 10 degrees. Just that tiny little piece of plastic."

72HCode...always enjoy your posts and learn something new each time. I can't picture the fan deflector nor seem to recall ever seeing one. Can you point me to an example pic...thanks much.

Jeff

Yup ill find a pic,,,

This is only for AC cars because of the air flow loss from the condenser core in front of the rad. it is a piece of plastic with 4 clips that fills the upper gap from the core support to the rad. you would not believe how effective that little piece of plastic is.

they came in 2 widths one for 2 row and one for 3 row rads on cars that had AC with small block and big block.

 

[protree]

Thanks for the input. I do have the disc below the thermostat and I have a thermostat with the piece on the bottom that covers that hole and forces the water to circulate. Since it does run cool going down the road I already assumed it was an airflow problem. I have a fox body aluminum radiator with 2- 1 inch cores with a shroud, and a flex fan. I have noticed at 750 rpm idle the fan is turning a bit slow. I think I have seen smaller water pump pulleys that would speed this up so that is next. I may try a few fans to see if there is better and make sure my shroud has no air leaks. I was just looking for success of cooling a .040 over motor or if I was trying to do the impossible.

 

[72HCODE]

no its fully possible. I've done it. I'm using the stock fan shroud, i have a 5 blade flex fan, original spacer. I have a rebuilt original rad with a EF core the water pump is stock, i have the lower spring in the lower rad hose to prevent collapse at high rpms. the rad cap is non-vented stock i don't have a coolant bottle.

now i have heard aluminum does not cool as well as copper. people use it basically to save weight.

also Water cools better then 50/50 antifreeze, but 50/50 doesn't corrode the system and doesn't have freeze issues in the winter.

you could use water and Wetter water additive which would bring down the temps, but for winter storage you would need to drain the system or swap for 50/50.

The capacity of the radiator may not been enough either.

lots of possibilities.

they also have 160,180 thermos that will come on sooner then the stock 192 degree. basically up to when the thermostat opens the Radiator is basically turned off. the upper hose is blocked so coolant doesn't not really circulate around through the motor. so the fan is aircooling the motor up till the thermostat opens. then the rad turns on. if the heat keeps going after the rad is turned on then the rad is usually not removing the heat efficiently. you may need a wider radiator or another row. the fan you can add blades as well to try and move more air. like i said you have alot of options.

you could come down 1 heat range on the plugs, that usually drops engine temps 10-30 degrees My engine is detonation happy so stock they recommend autolite 25 i use autolite 24 plugs, 25s would hold the temp gauge at 50-75% 24s put it at 20-40% i did that on purpose to compensate for the A/C compressor when sitting in traffic when it is 97 degrees outside.

here is a link to cap-a-radiator

http://www.caparadiator.com/aluminumvscopper.html

he was the guy that rebuilt my core. I spoke to him at great length about my options since i also was told Clevelands over .30 are prone to overheating.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'm getting those temp readings with a laser thermometer - so they might be just a tad different, depending on locations.

Those laser thermometers are cheap these days and a must have.

Had a heating/cooling problem and aimed the laser at the radiator

out hose ~160, measured the water pump at 230. There is

something wrong here. If you have cylinder miss-firing you can

check the temp of the spark plug to find the cold one.

mike

I love mine. I was also pleased with the readings I was getting as it was idling for a good 10 minutes. Ambient air temperature was 96, and the headers are ceramic coated Hooker Comps (which is why it might seem low - all the headers I've ever seen run much hotter at each cylinder).

• Water pump outlet - 182
  
• Radiator inlet - 182
  
• Radiator cap - 103
  
• Radiator outlet - 102
  
• Top of the carb - 106
  
• Each of the header pipes at the flange (each cylinder) - 200 average
  
• random places on the intake manifold - 110 average
  

I expect the temps to come up slightly when I get the grill, fenders, bumper, and hood mounted... but hopefully not too much. That 7-blade fan is a beast... and barely fits in the shroud! I might have to look into adding hood vents like Qcode72mach did on his to let the heat out (but probably not doable with factory Ram Air).

 

[tempestairbrush]

Besides the cooling system and maybe even pulling the thermostat out for a while (just to make sure you didn't get faulty part form the auto parts store), i would change the flex fan for a fan that does not flex because they are great for saving hp but tend from my experience flatten out and not pull a good amout of air. The fan posted right above by Mister 4X4 looks like something i would try. Are you sure your water pump is curculating the coolant? When the car is cold you can pull the cap then start the car and see the coolant flowing before it starts to heat up again. Also check for vaccum leaks or any other leak in the intake manifold!!! If you are sucking air from somewhere and running the motor LEAN this will cause the temperature to rise. Also Make sure you are running the hightest octane gas you can find 93 possaby (if you can get it NON ethanol gas) and try that. Remember these cars were built 40 years ago without all these additives in the gasoline and a much higher octane. If you have a higher compression motor it may be spark knocking due to inaduquate gas predetanating in the cylynder walls. Usually this happens more when your cruising and accellerating, but you never know. Check you Timing at idle and make sure you are around the bullpark, too far advance timing could also be an issue.

 

[Paul of MO]

I have only had one Cleveland block fail and it was .60 over and was used hard for racing. I used it because I had it and it lasted for 2 full seasons before something let go - it may not have even been related to the block but lots of heavy pieces ended up in the oil pan.

.60 over can be kept cool if everything in the cooling system is operating perfectly. .40 over should be more forgiving.

My bet is if you loose the flex fan and have a full shroud everything will be just peachy. (I hate flex fans -cheasy and don't work well)

- Paul of Mo