408 Stroker parts discussion

[tony-muscle]

I repeated the process with the Milodon gasket and less torque. I was at about 6 and 8 in torque. Let's see how they do in actual service.

Something I noticed is that the front and rear rubber pieces were a lot longer in the gasket from the Mr.Gasket set than those that came with the Milodon. The Milodon rubber pieces fit perfectly while the longer ones from Mr. Gasket were not a good fit because being too long. Look at the picture. The difference in length was significant.

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

are you using ft pounds where you should be using inch pounds?

 

[73pony]

If I remember correctly from assembling mine the spec is 11-12 ft lb done in two steps. I also had trouble and used a felpro and that didn't tear.

 

[tony-muscle]

are you using ft pounds where you should be using inch pounds?

Good question. I am using ft-lbs since that's the unit called in the shop manual I have. At some point I thought of that and double checked. 12 in-lbs would have been 1 ft-lbs which would be very little.

 

[Don C]

I use the by-feel torqueing for a lot of lower torque value bolts, too. I also don't trust ft-lb torque wrenches for that low of torque settings. I use a 1/4-inch in-lb torque wrench for anything less than 15 ft-lbs, just multiply the ft-lb value by 12.

Also, make sure the gasket mating surface of the pan is flat at the bolt holes and not indented. Even over-tightening one time can dimple them.

Too bad nobody makes the kind, for our cars, that has the built-in plastic washers that prevents squishing the gaskets too much.

 

[tony-muscle]

I use the by-feel torqueing for a lot of lower torque value bolts, too. I also don't trust ft-lb torque wrenches for that low of torque settings. I use a 1/4-inch in-lb torque wrench for anything less than 15 ft-lbs, just multiply the ft-lb value by 12.

Also, make sure the gasket mating surface of the pan is flat at the bolt holes and not indented. Even over-tightening one time can dimple them.

Too bad nobody makes the kind, for our cars, that has the built-in plastic washers that prevents squishing the gaskets too much.

Are there something like a railing that goes under the bolts so the pressure is distributed along the lip of the pan rather than solely under the washer. I have seen these in other applications.

 

[Don C]

Yes, that would be nice. The one for our motorhome transmission pan has a steel rail embedded in the gasket and hard washers under the bolts to control the gasket squish. The gasket material is a silicon/neoprene type material that is reusable and doesn't permanently deform. It's a 2011 on a Ford F-53 chassis with V10 and 6-speed automatic (TorqShift). I changed the fluid on it about 5 months ago, the gasket made it easy to keep it in place and torque it down.

The 2000 Navigator I had also had a similar reusable type, but without the steel rail in it.

 

[tony-muscle]

Has anyone here used Comp's Hydraulic Roller Retro-Fit Kit p/n 31-1000? The kit includes a spider that holds "dog bone" like pieces that keep the roller lifters from rotating. My question is related to the spider sitting flat against the valley floor on top of the drain holes, and how does it affect the flow of oil back to the pan. The spider has small channels on it, but it probably slows down the drain back to the pan. I don't know how much oil is in this area during operation. I am assuming that this product has been tested and should work okay, but I wanted to know if anyone here has experience with it. If drainage is an issue, will it make sense to use a washer between the spider and the floor of the valley to help with drainage. However, this will reduce the amount of pressure against the dob bones.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=31-1000&Category_Code=HRLKits

 

[turtle5353]

Has anyone here used Comp's Hydraulic Roller Retro-Fit Kit p/n 31-1000? The kit includes a spider that holds "dog bone" like pieces that keep the roller lifters from rotating. My question is related to the spider sitting flat against the valley floor on top of the drain holes, and how does it affect the flow of oil back to the pan. The spider has small channels on it, but it probably slows down the drain back to the pan. I don't know how much oil is in this area during operation. I am assuming that this product has been tested and should work okay, but I wanted to know if anyone here has experience with it. If drainage is an issue, will it make sense to use a washer between the spider and the floor of the valley to help with drainage. However, this will reduce the amount of pressure against the dob bones.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=31-1000&Category_Code=HRLKits

Not sure if it will impede oil flow or not. But I can tell you DO  NOT USE ANY  of comp cams hydraulic lifters, flat tappet or roller!!  I had multiple failures. And my engine builder is a distributor for comp and will not use any of their stuff anymore.

 

[tony-muscle]

Has anyone here used Comp's Hydraulic Roller Retro-Fit Kit p/n 31-1000? The kit includes a spider that holds "dog bone" like pieces that keep the roller lifters from rotating. My question is related to the spider sitting flat against the valley floor on top of the drain holes, and how does it affect the flow of oil back to the pan. The spider has small channels on it, but it probably slows down the drain back to the pan. I don't know how much oil is in this area during operation. I am assuming that this product has been tested and should work okay, but I wanted to know if anyone here has experience with it. If drainage is an issue, will it make sense to use a washer between the spider and the floor of the valley to help with drainage. However, this will reduce the amount of pressure against the dob bones.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=31-1000&Category_Code=HRLKits

Not sure if it will impede oil flow or not. But I can tell you DO  NOT USE ANY  of comp cams hydraulic lifters, flat tappet or roller!!  I had multiple failures. And my engine builder is a distributor for comp and will not use any of their stuff anymore.

I am cover. My lifters are Gaterman. Thanks.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[73pony]

Has anyone here used Comp's Hydraulic Roller Retro-Fit Kit p/n 31-1000? The kit includes a spider that holds "dog bone" like pieces that keep the roller lifters from rotating. My question is related to the spider sitting flat against the valley floor on top of the drain holes, and how does it affect the flow of oil back to the pan. The spider has small channels on it, but it probably slows down the drain back to the pan. I don't know how much oil is in this area during operation. I am assuming that this product has been tested and should work okay, but I wanted to know if anyone here has experience with it. If drainage is an issue, will it make sense to use a washer between the spider and the floor of the valley to help with drainage. However, this will reduce the amount of pressure against the dob bones.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=31-1000&Category_Code=HRLKits

I used that set up with no issues. I did take the spider and drill small holes in top of it directly above the holes in the lifter valley to be sure the oil would drain back fast enough as I had the same concern.

 

[tony-muscle]

The 408 Cleveland is starting to look like an engine. Almost ready for testing.

I posted more pictures in my build thread:

https://www.7173mustangs.com/showthread.php?tid=19909&pid=326954#pid326954

 

[c9zx]

Looking good! Chuck

 

[tony-muscle]

Has anyone here used Comp's Hydraulic Roller Retro-Fit Kit p/n 31-1000? The kit includes a spider that holds "dog bone" like pieces that keep the roller lifters from rotating. My question is related to the spider sitting flat against the valley floor on top of the drain holes, and how does it affect the flow of oil back to the pan. The spider has small channels on it, but it probably slows down the drain back to the pan. I don't know how much oil is in this area during operation. I am assuming that this product has been tested and should work okay, but I wanted to know if anyone here has experience with it. If drainage is an issue, will it make sense to use a washer between the spider and the floor of the valley to help with drainage. However, this will reduce the amount of pressure against the dob bones.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=31-1000&Category_Code=HRLKits

Tim's suggestion was to use a washer to slightly separate the spider from the valley floor.

 

[tony-muscle]

Reposted from my main build thread: https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-muscletang-mod-project-thread-1971-m-mach-1?pid=327962#pid327962

I am proud to say that I tested the engine and run great. The only issue I had during testing was with the old carburetor. Silly me thinking that I could use an old carburetor that has been sitting for two years. The secondaries float was not sealing so gasoline kept flooding. I ended up capping the gas supply to the secondaries so I can test the engine. Since I had no radiator I ran it for a short time until the thermostat opened. I was so busy taking care of stuff during that time that I forgot to shoot a video.

One issue I noticed after the test was that while turning the engine by hand I kept hearing this grinding noise. It worried me for a while until I figured out it was the flywheel rubbing against the engine back plate (block plate). I have read about this in the past, but I have forgotten. Because the oil pan sticks out slightly at back it doesn't allow the back plate to sit flush causing it to rub against the flywheel. Now I just have to remove the flywheel and grind a smiley face on the back plate so it sits flush. I had installed the flywheel bolts with red Loctite so it will be fun.

I drained the oil and looked very good. The filter had fine metal particles mixed with the oil but I think this is expected.

Here I posted a picture of the test setup: https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-diy-...test-setup

 

[tony-muscle]

Drove tested the engine with the TKO600 and it is phenomenal.

Reviewing all I have done I realized that I didn't spend time thinking about the PCV system. Right now I have whatever valve was in the engine before all the mods. Obviously, vacuum is much less than stock. Right now I am measuring 10-11" at 900rpm. What type of PCV valve should I be using, or does it really matter?

 

[OzCoupe72]

Drove tested the engine with the TKO600 and it is phenomenal.

Reviewing all I have done I realized that I didn't spend time thinking about the PCV system. Right now I have whatever valve was in the engine before all the mods. Obviously, vacuum is much less than stock. Right now I am measuring 10-11" at 900rpm. What type of PCV valve should I be using, or does it really matter?

Don't think it matters what type but from what I did was add two breather caps with one of them having a PCV built in

This is the one I got from Summit - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/bsp-blk21120/overview/

I also purchased the matching non PCV breather and need to but the foam elements separate

I think with the added crankcase pressures with our engines it is important to have two breathers

 

[73' mach 1]

Glad to see everything went well! I forget how big your cam is but if have power brakes do you have enough vacuum for them? I know some are against it but I'm considering going full wildwood manual brakes. I could use the room on the firewall and it's not a daily driver.

 

[tony-muscle]

Glad to see everything went well! I forget how big your cam is but if have power brakes do you have enough vacuum for them? I know some are against it but I'm considering going full wildwood manual brakes. I could use the room on the firewall and it's not a daily driver.

The brakes are working very similarly to how they worked before the stroker. Before I had about 13" and now I have about 11" at idle. I talked to LEED and Wilwood and they don't like the idea of using power brakes with less than 18". I think that's a bit extreme. However, unfortunately I don't know if they would work better if I had more vacuum. I am thinking of using the vacuum tank that is there for the A/C and add a vacuum gauge to monitor it. The vacuum increases very quickly after idle so I just need a tank were I can store enough for a couple brake strokes. Something I don't know either is how much vacuum is used every time the brakes are used.

 

[73' mach 1]

Glad to see everything went well! I forget how big your cam is but if have power brakes do you have enough vacuum for them? I know some are against it but I'm considering going full wildwood manual brakes. I could use the room on the firewall and it's not a daily driver.

The brakes are working very similarly to how they worked before the stroker. Before I had about 13" and now I have about 11" at idle. I talked to LEED and Wilwood and they don't like the idea of using power brakes with less than 18". I think that's a bit extreme. However, unfortunately I don't know if they would work better if I had more vacuum. I am thinking of using the vacuum tank that is there for the A/C and add a vacuum gauge to monitor it. The vacuum increases very quickly after idle so I just need a tank were I can store enough for a couple brake strokes. Something I don't know either is how much vacuum is used every time the brakes are used.

Good deal!