'71 Mustang clicking issue

[4Vforever]

The easiest way to confirm if it is a true Boss 351 engine externally is the big 4" harmonic  balancer with the part number having a prefix of D1ZX. Also you could pull out the dipstick which is measured for 6quarts and starts with the same prefix D1ZX part number, instead of 5 quarts like all other Cleveland engines. Besides the usual intake and exhaust manifolds, special Autolite carb and dual point distributor which were all often changed over the years, the only other way to tell is internally. The easiest to see will be the valve train, it will be mechanical, eg: screw in studs, guide plates and adjustable rockers, but as has been said this was done a fair bit over the years to convert standard 4V heads for mechanical valve train, so doesn't really prove a Boss engine. The heads had single groove valves both intake and exhaust and locks and retainers to match. The block was a 4 bolt main, with the sump having a slosh plate and a windage tray welded to it. The crankshaft was different to the standard 351 Cleveland crankshaft and also had the D1ZX prefix on the part number, the rods had stronger rod bolts and were shot peened as well and they also had a domed forged piston instead of the cast flat tops like standard Cleveland engines. Some of these parts may have been changed over the years like flat top Pistons to drop compression, roller rockers added instead of the standard rockers and a Holley carb and intake to suit plus headers were very common upgrades on these engines over the years.

Anyway if it doesn't turn out to be a genuine Boss engine don't worry too much as you have a good base with a 351 4V engine, which was basis for the Boss anyway. Depending on what you want to do, this engine it can be made to out perform the original Boss 351 without too much effort as things like modern camshafts are light years better than the original Boss cam. Though it would still be cool to have an original Boss engine under the hood of your car though. Good luck with it.

 

[Stanglover]

The easiest way to confirm if it is a true Boss 351 engine externally is the big 4" harmonic  balancer with the part number having a prefix of D1ZX. Also you could pull out the dipstick which is measured for 6quarts and starts with the same prefix D1ZX part number, instead of 5 quarts like all other Cleveland engines. Besides the usual intake and exhaust manifolds, special Autolite carb and dual point distributor which were all often changed over the years, the only other way to tell is internally. The easiest to see will be the valve train, it will be mechanical, eg: screw in studs, guide plates and adjustable rockers, but as has been said this was done a fair bit over the years to convert standard 4V heads for mechanical valve train, so doesn't really prove a Boss engine. The heads had single groove valves both intake and exhaust and locks and retainers to match. The block was a 4 bolt main, with the sump having a slosh plate and a windage tray welded to it. The crankshaft was different to the standard 351 Cleveland crankshaft and also had the D1ZX prefix on the part number, the rods had stronger rod bolts and were shot peened as well and they also had a domed forged piston instead of the cast flat tops like standard Cleveland engines. Some of these parts may have been changed over the years like flat top Pistons to drop compression, roller rockers added instead of the standard rockers and a Holley carb and intake to suit plus headers were very common upgrades on these engines over the years.

Anyway if it doesn't turn out to be a genuine Boss engine don't worry too much as you have a good base with a 351 4V engine, which was basis for the Boss anyway. Depending on what you want to do, this engine it can be made to out perform the original Boss 351 without too much effort as things like modern camshafts are light years better than the original Boss cam. Though it would still be cool to have an original Boss engine under the hood of your car though. Good luck with it.

Well said!! I knew there were guys out the who really know their stuff.

 

[Fredensborg]

Most casting numbers on '71s begin with D0, including blocks and heads. The only way to tell whether it is a '70 or '71 is by the date codes.

Oh. Sorry for my lack of knowledge. I may have jumped the gun then. How would I find out which engine I have? I mean where could I find the codes or stampings for it?

Also here is a short clip of the engine cranking on and one of the engine revving. The click is pretty obvious but the vibrations might not be as much. 

My 351C makes a similar sound when running, I assumed it was an exhaust leak. I'll have to subscribe to this thread and see what you find out..

 

[Heardatbeat]

The easiest way to confirm if it is a true Boss 351 engine externally is the big 4" harmonic  balancer with the part number having a prefix of D1ZX. Also you could pull out the dipstick which is measured for 6quarts and starts with the same prefix D1ZX part number, instead of 5 quarts like all other Cleveland engines. Besides the usual intake and exhaust manifolds, special Autolite carb and dual point distributor which were all often changed over the years, the only other way to tell is internally. The easiest to see will be the valve train, it will be mechanical, eg: screw in studs, guide plates and adjustable rockers, but as has been said this was done a fair bit over the years to convert standard 4V heads for mechanical valve train, so doesn't really prove a Boss engine. The heads had single groove valves both intake and exhaust and locks and retainers to match. The block was a 4 bolt main, with the sump having a slosh plate and a windage tray welded to it. The crankshaft was different to the standard 351 Cleveland crankshaft and also had the D1ZX prefix on the part number, the rods had stronger rod bolts and were shot peened as well and they also had a domed forged piston instead of the cast flat tops like standard Cleveland engines. Some of these parts may have been changed over the years like flat top Pistons to drop compression, roller rockers added instead of the standard rockers and a Holley carb and intake to suit plus headers were very common upgrades on these engines over the years.

Anyway if it doesn't turn out to be a genuine Boss engine don't worry too much as you have a good base with a 351 4V engine, which was basis for the Boss anyway. Depending on what you want to do, this engine it can be made to out perform the original Boss 351 without too much effort as things like modern camshafts are light years better than the original Boss cam. Though it would still be cool to have an original Boss engine under the hood of your car though. Good luck with it.

Well said!! I knew there were guys out the who really know their stuff.

Will have to check on all that! It would be a bit funny if it is not a Boss because the previous owners painted the Boss 351 stripes and lettering on the car. Which of course I would have to rectify. I would hate to be running around with a false flag. 

 

[Stanglover]

Okay, so I literally woke up in the middle of the night with this thought on the VIN situation that I have not seen in the post here. The thread has jumped from a ticking noise to a VIN identification issue, but that's ok as far as I'm concerned.

There may be another way to get the original VIN. While it seems like your car has been truly butchered by parties unknown, is the door data plate (sticker) still on the drivers door? it will have the VIN on it and a bunch of other vital stuff. Of course the door could have been changed, but you do have the partial from the apron to match it to. The other possibility is this. Does the car still have the original carpet in it? if it does, then you may find a build sheet or two under the carpet underpad behind the drivers seat. This is a LOT of work to get to as the rear seat base has to be removed, door sill plate and maybe the quarter inner panel to be able to lift the carpet up. I'm adding a picture of what I found in my car for reference. IF your in luck, you will have the most valuable document possible for this car. BUT!! my guess is the interior is not original either. Look for other clues as well, like mismatched painted parts. While this won't help find the VIN, it will tell you what has been changed, hopefully nothing.

I guess though as you say it was issued a new VIN, that is what you'll have to use moving forward, but it would be interesting to find out what it actually is.

As for the painted stripes and BOSS 351, usually these are stick-ons, not painted. Most of us like the Hockey Stripes as they are know as, and add them whether or not the car came with them. Mine is a case in point and I purposely retained the chrome strips just in case another owner wants to go back to the factory look.

Also on the block date casting number. You thought it was an "O". I found a site, Mercurystuff.com or Google 1971 Ford casting numbers, that lists a SECOND year set of date code letters. There is no "O", but the is a "Q" which would be MARCH, in this case March 71. I've not seen this info before, but I guess it exists.

So this is more food for thought. It's getting interesting!!

PLEASE take some pictures of the car and post them.

 

[73pony]

Here is a thought. Give Marti a call (Marti Auto Works). You have the "The partial VIN I found under the fender was *1F213458*" he may be able to cross reference his database and come up with the complete actual VIN and how the car was originally. I'm sure it wont be free but he may be able to give you some vital info on the car.

 

[Stanglover]

Here is a thought. Give Marti a call (Marti Auto Works). You have the "The partial VIN I found under the fender was *1F213458*" he may be able to cross reference his database and come up with the complete actual VIN and how the car was originally. I'm sure it won't be free but he may be able to give you some vital info on the car.

  That's a good idea and worth a try. Kudo's

 

[Stanglover]

Well after a very painful trip to the ATM the mechanic is no longer working on the car. Here is where it gets even more interesting though. Turns out it is neither a Boss OR a 7123 engine. It is a 351C 4V from a 1970 car. The intake manifold has a cast number of D0AE-8425-L. Which according to some quick research says it was in a 1970 Ford car. Was there any difference between a 1970 351C 4V to a 7123 Cleveland 4V?

  I looked up this number as well on www.mustangtek.com and it is the same as on my 71 "M" code 4V . The same number was apparently used on an Aussie 2V, but with 4V size ports. A BOSS intake was D1ZX-9425-CA with or without EGR slot and aluminum. So it's not looking like it will turn out to be a true Boss I'm afraid................ but it still could be!!

 

[Heardatbeat]

Here is a thought. Give Marti a call (Marti Auto Works). You have the "The partial VIN I found under the fender was *1F213458*" he may be able to cross reference his database and come up with the complete actual VIN and how the car was originally. I'm sure it won't be free but he may be able to give you some vital info on the car.

  That's a good idea and worth a try. Kudo's

I am definitely going to try that. I will give Marti a call tomorrow. As for more exploratory surgery on the car. I will not be able to until Friday. As for ripping the carpets out to check for the paperwork I am going to reupholster the car. This year and model is my dream car so anything I need to do to get it nice and straight is definitely worth doing. The only thing holding me back is the little knowledge I have (but currently gaining) and funds. 

 

[Stanglover]

 This year and model is my dream car so anything I need to do to get it nice and straight is definitely worth doing. The only thing holding me back is the little knowledge I have (but currently gaining) and funds. 

 Okay my friend, I've re-read this entire post and even with my tired old eyes, I don't see anywhere where you told us exactly WHAT your car is. Is it a Fastback, Mach 1, Coup or Convertible. Can you please confirm that as the suspense is killing me (us)!!

Pictures are worth a thousand words. I know you know how to post pictures as you have a video up. We love pictures!!

With pictures there are many very knowledgeable members who can help and guide you to achieve your Dream Car. Yes, it takes only two things, time and money, but you can and will get there. If your car currently does not look that good, no worries, you won't be judged.

Geoff.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Geoff is correct... up to the point of needing only 2 things.  You actually need 3 things: time, money, and patience.  

As for worrying about being judged on what it looks like... don't.  You should've seen mine when it started out - everybody I knew (except the guys here) gave me crap about it.  I also bought mine without a title, and even had to do swap the front clip, so my VINs don't all match up as they should - but everything's documented and the Texas DMV is happy with my efforts, so everything's legal and I'm actually driving it now (need to renew my registration for the year, already - that went fast).

Hang in there - we'll get'cha fixed up! ::thumb::

 

[Stanglover]

Geoff is correct... up to the point of needing only 2 things.  You actually need 3 things: time, money, and patience.  

As for worrying about being judged on what it looks like... don't.  You should've seen mine when it started out - everybody I knew (except the guys here) gave me crap about it.  I also bought mine without a title, and even had to do swap the front clip, so my VINs don't all match up as they should - but everything's documented and the Texas DMV is happy with my efforts, so everything's legal and I'm actually driving it now (need to renew my registration for the year, already - that went fast).

Hang in there - we'll get'cha fixed up! ::thumb::

 I stand corrected. How could I forget patience............ probably because I don't have any!

 Good encouragement there Mister 4X4!

Geoff.

 

[Heardatbeat]

Geoff is correct... up to the point of needing only 2 things.  You actually need 3 things: time, money, and patience.  

As for worrying about being judged on what it looks like... don't.  You should've seen mine when it started out - everybody I knew (except the guys here) gave me crap about it.  I also bought mine without a title, and even had to do swap the front clip, so my VINs don't all match up as they should - but everything's documented and the Texas DMV is happy with my efforts, so everything's legal and I'm actually driving it now (need to renew my registration for the year, already - that went fast).

Hang in there - we'll get'cha fixed up! ::thumb::

 I stand corrected. How could I forget patience............ probably because I don't have any!

 Good encouragement there Mister 4X4!

Geoff.

Oh! My apologies. I will definitely post photos. Then you can see the Frankenstein I am working with.

 

[Don C]

I'll add one more thing needed, at least by me, knuckle sized Band-Aids. :-/

 

[Stanglover]

Geoff is correct... up to the point of needing only 2 things.  You actually need 3 things: time, money, and patience.  

As for worrying about being judged on what it looks like... don't.  You should've seen mine when it started out - everybody I knew (except the guys here) gave me crap about it.  I also bought mine without a title, and even had to do swap the front clip, so my VINs don't all match up as they should - but everything's documented and the Texas DMV is happy with my efforts, so everything's legal and I'm actually driving it now (need to renew my registration for the year, already - that went fast).

Hang in there - we'll get'cha fixed up! ::thumb::

 I stand corrected. How could I forget patience............ probably because I don't have any!

 Good encouragement there Mister 4X4!

Geoff.

Oh! My apologies. I will definitely post photos. Then you can see the Frankenstein I am working with.

 That's a start. From the look of the bumper and nose pieces, my guess is it's a Sportroof. Do I win a prize??!!

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'll add one more thing needed, at least by me, knuckle sized Band-Aids. :-/

I got lucky with mine.  Despite my pal's recommendations in getting a tetanus shot before beginning, I only had one instance of losing any blood... and it was within the last few days before taking it to the body shop (a self-tapping sheet metal screw slipped and gave me a nice scar on my right thumb).  That was at the 3.5 year point of my project. Since then, over 1000 bloodless days (can't say 'injury-free days' since I messed up my back after Christmas).

Oh, and that thing is absolutely pristine compared to mine when I first got it. ::thumb::

 

[Heardatbeat]

 I stand corrected. How could I forget patience............ probably because I don't have any!

 Good encouragement there Mister 4X4!

Geoff.

Oh! My apologies. I will definitely post photos. Then you can see the Frankenstein I am working with.

 That's a start. From the look of the bumper and nose pieces, my guess is it's a Sportroof. Do I win a prize??!!

I did not realize it posted. I meant to post more photos but my signal was giving me trouble. As soon as I connect to some decent wifi I will upload all the ones I took. And yes it is a sportsroof. 

 

[Heardatbeat]

Sorry for double posting but here are the pictures as promised. It is a 4 speed toploader. Interior needs to be redone but that is for later down the line. I first need to get tot the bottom of the vibrations and clicking. 

 

[Stanglover]

Thanks for putting up the photo's. That car does not look too bad my friend!! Hopefully, all the tips offered will lead you to finding out what it was born with and what it is now. Someone has gone to quite a bit of trouble to make it look like a Boss going down the road.

A couple of things I did notice in the pics, and I could be mistaken just looking at them is the carb is old and looks like a 600cfm, too small for a Boss engine and the gear shifter on a 71 is flat 3/8th steel (or at least it is on mine). Not too clear in the picture, but it does look more rounded, like a 72-73.

As you have said though, it's a Frankenstein, so who knows what you have.

Anyway, not picking on it, just trying to offer a bit more useful stuff to get you to a better 71 when done.

For now, I guess it's back to the original question of "what is this ticking noise!". If it were my engine, I'd have it stripped and inspected at the very least as there is a very good chance gaskets are old and may leak if not replaced, but money to do it is always the issue.

Overall, it looks like you have a good base car to work with. Patience, I'm told, is the key.

Geoff.

 

[Mister 4x4]

This looks pretty awesome, actually.  ::thumb::

As mentioned earlier, I'd get in contact with Kevin Marti and run what you have as the VIN from under one of the fenders.  Just for grins, bounce it against the door tag (if it's still there) - if it matches, then you should have the entire VIN from the tag, which will confirm if it's a Boss, Mach 1, or Sportsroof.  It would be cool if the door VIN tag matched the stampings and it turns out to be a poorly cared-for Boss 351 - got 'em crossed for ya (the exhaust cut-outs in the rear valance make me think that maybe it's an M-Code, though).

The headliner's not to bad to replace, either.  That'll make a huge difference once you get that done.

Lovin' the Cragars with spinners, too.