'71 Mustang clicking issue

[Don C]

If the flywheel was internally balanced chances are the harmonic balancer is also. Your mechanic should be able to figure that out. Or, determine if it is a misfire is causing it.

I think someone else also mentioned finding a new mechanic? If he doesn't know about internal and external balancing, can't track down the vibration, and won't give you the casting numbers (maybe he doesn't know how to find them), I think it's past time to find a new mechanic.

 

[Heardatbeat]

If the flywheel was internally balanced chances are the harmonic balancer is also. Your mechanic should be able to figure that out. Or, determine if it is a misfire is causing it.

I think someone else also mentioned finding a new mechanic? If he doesn't know about internal and external balancing, can't track down the vibration, and won't give you the casting numbers (maybe he doesn't know how to find them), I think it's past time to find a new mechanic.

Good point. I think I will just pay him what I owe him and find someone else. Any one know any mechanics in Washington state that have experience with the 351C? Lol

 

[4Vforever]

Agree completely about finding a new mechanic if he can't find the problem. It's been said about the possibility of the balancer being an internally balanced unit matching the flywheel that was on it, but another possibility is the balancer is the correct one and has spun caused by the seal being worn. Another thought is if the engine was running around like that, then the vibrations caused by the rotating assembly being out balance may have twisted or slightly bent the crankshaft or chewed out the main bearings. Yes I've see an engine with a bad vibration caused by worn out main bearings. A burnt valve or lifter pump up caused by incorrectly set hydraulic lifter preload could also be a candidate for a vibration. A stripped or failing timing gear is another possibility. The other and most likely is there's a dead cylinder or two caused either by weak or no spark in one or more cylinders. So check the spark and make sure it's a nice big blue spark and not a weak yellow/orange spark. If it's every cylinder with weak spark then it's more than likely a coil, but if this mechanic is any sort of tradesman, then he should've been able to have diagnosed these to rule them out. 

Do as you said, pay him up and get the car out of there and find a good mechanic that can get to the bottom of your problem. Then when you find one make sure you tell them everything that's happened or anything that's been replaced and the thoughts on why as this will go a long way to helping get to the bottom of the problem. Good luck with it all

 

[Heardatbeat]

Agree completely about finding a new mechanic if he can't find the problem. It's been said about the possibility of the balancer being an internally balanced unit matching the flywheel that was on it, but another possibility is the balancer is the correct one and has spun caused by the seal being worn. Another thought is if the engine was running around like that, then the vibrations caused by the rotating assembly being out balance may have twisted or slightly bent the crankshaft or chewed out the main bearings. Yes I've see an engine with a bad vibration caused by worn out main bearings. A burnt valve or lifter pump up caused by incorrectly set hydraulic lifter preload could also be a candidate for a vibration. A stripped or failing timing gear is another possibility. The other and most likely is there's a dead cylinder or two caused either by weak or no spark in one or more cylinders. So check the spark and make sure it's a nice big blue spark and not a weak yellow/orange spark. If it's every cylinder with weak spark then it's more than likely a coil, but if this mechanic is any sort of tradesman, then he should've been able to have diagnosed these to rule them out. 

Do as you said, pay him up and get the car out of there and find a good mechanic that can get to the bottom of your problem. Then when you find one make sure you tell them everything that's happened or anything that's been replaced and the thoughts on why as this will go a long way to helping get to the bottom of the problem. Good luck with it all

Well after a very painful trip to the ATM the mechanic is no longer working on the car. Here is where it gets even more interesting though. Turns out it is neither a Boss OR a 7123 engine. It is a 351C 4V from a 1970 car. The intake manifold has a cast number of D0AE-8425-L. Which according to some quick research says it was in a 1970 Ford car. Was there any difference between a 1970 351C 4V to a 7123 Cleveland 4V?

 

[Don C]

Most casting numbers on '71s begin with D0, including blocks and heads. The only way to tell whether it is a '70 or '71 is by the date codes.

 

[Heardatbeat]

Most casting numbers on '71s begin with D0, including blocks and heads. The only way to tell whether it is a '70 or '71 is by the date codes.

Oh. Sorry for my lack of knowledge. I may have jumped the gun then. How would I find out which engine I have? I mean where could I find the codes or stampings for it?

Also here is a short clip of the engine cranking on and one of the engine revving. The click is pretty obvious but the vibrations might not be as much. 



Edit: added two clips of the engine.

 

[4Vforever]

Your block date codes are on the block above the starter motor. You'll need to remove it to see them, one will start with a D0 being for a 70/71 model block, and the next line of numbers are the date codes. First number is for the year like a 9 (69) 0 (70) 1 (71) the letter next to the number is the month A= January B= February C= March and so on except there's no I in the months, so because no I which would've been September now becomes J and K for October and so on the last number/s is the date the block was cast. Now the same casting dates are used for the heads and these are located between the valve springs closer to the intake. Another possibility is the engine is a later build and had an earlier intake put on because they're square bore.

Good work getting the car out of there and now to locate a good mechanic that knows these cars or if you're willing to give it a go yourself there's plenty of knowledgeable people on here to help you through it all and get to the bottom of the problem. BTW no use me trying to listen to noises over the net or so forth as it could still be a number of things and it's not like hearing it in person. We use to have people ring us at the shop revving engines asking us what we thought it was, which my reply was always, someone revving an engine. Good luck with it and if need be have a go yourself or eliminate things to cross them off the list.

 

[Heardatbeat]

Your block date codes are on the block above the starter motor. You'll need to remove it to see them, one will start with a D0 being for a 70/71 model block, and the next line of numbers are the date codes. First number is for the year like a 9 (69) 0 (70) 1 (71) the letter next to the number is the month A= January B= February C= March and so on except there's no I in the months, so because no I which would've been September now becomes J and K for October and so on the last number/s is the date the block was cast. Now the same casting dates are used for the heads and these are located between the valve springs closer to the intake. Another possibility is the engine is a later build and had an earlier intake put on because they're square bore.

Good work getting the car out of there and now to locate a good mechanic that knows these cars or if you're willing to give it a go yourself there's plenty of knowledgeable people on here to help you through it all and get to the bottom of the problem. BTW no use me trying to listen to noises over the net or so forth as it could still be a number of things and it's not like hearing it in person. We use to have people ring us at the shop revving engines asking us what we thought it was, which my reply was always, someone revving an engine. Good luck with it and if need be have a go yourself or eliminate things to cross them off the list.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have done a little searching on this forum in regards to common vibration. The ones that stood out the most were the engine mounts, unbalanced driveshaft, bad tune up, harmonic balancer, ring and pinion, transmission mounts and finally unbalanced wheels. I am definitely going to do most I can before I rely on a mechanic again.

First thing is first though. And that is remove the front fender to see if I can hopefully find the right VIN for this car and second is to identify the engine and the transmission. I think that would be the best place to start.

 

[4Vforever]

That's the best way just go through everything you can before possibly handing it over, hopefully you'll find the problem and won't have to,part with any more dollars. For some reason I thought the vibration was with the car just being stationery, but if it's while driving then go through all of those things first to see if that resolves the problem. This way to you can list up everything you've tried so we help you with trying to solve it when we know what's been looked into. I'm sure with all of the knowledge on here with the people that really know these cars, you're problems will,be solved. Just hang in there the problem will be solved.

 

[Stanglover]

Very hard to tell what that noise is from the videos. For a few bucks, buy yourself a stethoscope from the parts store, or just use a long screw driver (mentioned before, just don't use the pointy end in the ear!!) and listen to the valves. I think its lifters gone by-by, but then, what do I know about ducks having teeth! Good luck and I really do hope it's nothing too serious.

 

[Heardatbeat]

Your block date codes are on the block above the starter motor. You'll need to remove it to see them, one will start with a D0 being for a 70/71 model block, and the next line of numbers are the date codes. First number is for the year like a 9 (69) 0 (70) 1 (71) the letter next to the number is the month A= January B= February C= March and so on except there's no I in the months, so because no I which would've been September now becomes J and K for October and so on the last number/s is the date the block was cast. Now the same casting dates are used for the heads and these are located between the valve springs closer to the intake. Another possibility is the engine is a later build and had an earlier intake put on because they're square bore.

Good work getting the car out of there and now to locate a good mechanic that knows these cars or if you're willing to give it a go yourself there's plenty of knowledgeable people on here to help you through it all and get to the bottom of the problem. BTW no use me trying to listen to noises over the net or so forth as it could still be a number of things and it's not like hearing it in person. We use to have people ring us at the shop revving engines asking us what we thought it was, which my reply was always, someone revving an engine. Good luck with it and if need be have a go yourself or eliminate things to cross them off the list.

So I finally got to work on the car. I was able to find the partial VIN under the fender. I also was able to take a picture of a tag I found, the transmission, the exhaust manifold and finally the engine numbers behind the starter. I tried decoding them but I ended up more confused  :huh: .

 

[4Vforever]

The casting numbers are above the starter and the starter will need to be removed to read them properly. Also the engine number will be on a flat machined surface behind the cylinder head on the drivers side. You'll need to clean it off and I've found white paint applied thinly, or thick and wipe straight off makes the engine number in that area easier to read. If need be post up some pics and someone should be able to decode them for you.

 

[Heardatbeat]

The casting numbers are above the starter and the starter will need to be removed to read them properly. Also the engine number will be on a flat machined surface behind the cylinder head on the drivers side. You'll need to clean it off and I've found white paint applied thinly, or thick and wipe straight off makes the engine number in that area easier to read. If need be post up some pics and someone should be able to decode them for you.

Oh right on. Well I got all but the one under the heads. I can probably do that one next but I need new shock tower bolts so I gotta wait until those arrive in the mail. As for the ones I do have I found a casting D0AE-L and right below it had the numbers 1015. The partial VIN I found under the fender was *1F213458*

 

[4Vforever]

That's definitely an interesting casting number and makes no sense as O is past all months as M is December cast and would've made the block the updated D2AE casting which was cast from around mid 71. So the engine being a D0AE block needs to be cast earlier than roughly mid 71. Well the engine is from a 71 model being the engine number starting with a 1F so that's something. The head castings are under the rocker covers in between the valve springs up toward the intake face. At least the block has been narrowed down to a 71 model.

 

[Don C]

Any chance the second number might have actually been a letter, like C or D? Sometimes the cast letters and numbers are a little hard to decipher.

 

[Heardatbeat]

That's definitely an interesting casting number and makes no sense as O is past all months as M is December cast and would've made the block the updated D2AE casting which was cast from around mid 71. So the engine being a D0AE block needs to be cast earlier than roughly mid 71. Well the engine is from a 71 model being the engine number starting with a 1F so that's something. The head castings are under the rocker covers in between the valve springs up toward the intake face. At least the block has been narrowed down to a 71 model.

Which valve cover is it under? The passenger or the driver? Or should I just remove both? I will double check the numbers tomorrow.

 

[4Vforever]

Casting numbers are under the rocker covers and each head has date codes on them. From memory, I'm pretty sure they are located between the intake and exhaust valve springs on no1 cylinder on the passenger side and between the intake and exhaust valve springs on no8 cylinder on the drivers side and they're located toward the intake manifold side of the head. Pretty sure that's right but they'll be the only numbers around those areas that look like the numbers described previously.

 

[Stanglover]

The casting numbers are above the starter and the starter will need to be removed to read them properly. Also the engine number will be on a flat machined surface behind the cylinder head on the drivers side. You'll need to clean it off and I've found white paint applied thinly, or thick and wipe straight off makes the engine number in that area easier to read. If need be post up some pics and someone should be able to decode them for you.

Oh right on. Well I got all but the one under the heads. I can probably do that one next but I need new shock tower bolts so I gotta wait until those arrive in the mail. As for the ones I do have I found a casting D0AE-L and right below it had the numbers 1015. The partial VIN I found under the fender was *1F213458*

 I could be totally wrong on this, but I was under the impression that Mustang VIN's started with a 1XXXXX. I say that because I have a spare 351C block that has a VIN starting with 1F 5XXXXX and I'm told (on here) that was from a Cougar. Can you confirm exactly what your car is? I don't see you mention that other then the engine is a 351C 4V. My car's VIN starts 17XXXX and was serialized mid February 71 and built on Feb 22nd. A number starting 213 seems to be much later than a 71, but the 1F confirms it IS a 71. I'm definitely not an expert on this and as I said, I could be totally wrong, but I am confused!! Can someone enlighten us.

 

[Heardatbeat]

The casting numbers are above the starter and the starter will need to be removed to read them properly. Also the engine number will be on a flat machined surface behind the cylinder head on the drivers side. You'll need to clean it off and I've found white paint applied thinly, or thick and wipe straight off makes the engine number in that area easier to read. If need be post up some pics and someone should be able to decode them for you.

Oh right on. Well I got all but the one under the heads. I can probably do that one next but I need new shock tower bolts so I gotta wait until those arrive in the mail. As for the ones I do have I found a casting D0AE-L and right below it had the numbers 1015. The partial VIN I found under the fender was *1F213458*

 I could be totally wrong on this, but I was under the impression that Mustang VIN's started with a 1XXXXX. I say that because I have a spare 351C block that has a VIN starting with 1F 5XXXXX and I'm told (on here) that was from a Cougar. Can you confirm exactly what your car is? I don't see you mention that other then the engine is a 351C 4V. My car's VIN starts 17XXXX and was serialized mid February 71 and built on Feb 22nd. A number starting 213 seems to be much later than a 71, but the 1F confirms it IS a 71. I'm definitely not an expert on this and as I said, I could be totally wrong, but I am confused!! Can someone enlighten us.

So this Mustang when I bought it had the dash replaced so the original VIN was lost. They re-registered it under a new VIN  in Idaho. I pulled the fender and those were the numbers I found. Also the engine is NOT original to the car. They replaced whatever they had with supposedly a 351 Boss. Even went as far as painting the stripes on it. And that is where we are. Trying to gather all the casting numbers to see if it really is a BOSS and what the real identity of this car is.

 

[Stanglover]

So what we do know is it is a Mustang and I assume a fastback or Mach1. A fastback Sportroof would have 02 in the VIN after 1F, and a Mach 1 would have 05. These do NOT show in the partial VIN on the fender aprons. I'm surprised that someone, knowing the importance of the VIN, would throw out the metal section of the dash. Usually just the pad is replaced unless there was something funky going on!!

As for the motor, it was discussed in detail what needs to be checked number wise. You will have to do some detective work and verify what you have or have not. Don't forget heads can and often are upgraded with screw-in studs and guide plates . A Boss would have an aluminum intake as well, but that could have been added too. In other words and I'm sure the far more knowledgeable will concur, it ain't easy to tell if it is a REAL boss 351. Good luck and keep posting your findings.

PS, Got any pictures?