Assembly reference for finishing 351 cleveland long block?

[giantpune]

I'm about ready to start putting all the parts back onto the outside of my complete long block 351C. Is there a good reference for the bolts involved? Intake manifold, headers, timing cover, water pump, valve covers, oil pump, oil pan, fuel pump, alternator, PS pump, AC bracket, cooling fan, water neck, harmonic damper, flywheel, block to bellhousing, block to engine mounts, distributor hold down clamp, etc. I could obviously wing it for most of them. But since this is the information age and all, it seems like there should be some place where all this information would be listed. I also need to know what, if anything, goes on each bolt. Like lubricant, sealant, and thread locker.

What I have found floating around dont seem to be in 100% agreement, and they are lacking some of the bolts.


From my old haynes repair manual that covers a wide range of early mustangs with different engines.





From a forum about 351M/400 engines.

 

[Cleveland Crush]

Out of curiosity...how many of you have actually used a tourqe wrench on your spark plugs, oil drain plugs, distributor hold down bolt or Cleveland/Big Block/Windsor intake bolts. Honor system please, don't lie!!! I've never used a tourque wrench on any of these...

 

[turtle5353]

Crank and rods caps. Heads and intake. Other than those items not much else.

 

[giantpune]

Out of curiosity...how many of you have actually used a tourqe wrench on your spark plugs, oil drain plugs, distributor hold down bolt or Cleveland/Big Block/Windsor intake bolts. Honor system please, don't lie!!! I've never used a tourque wrench on any of these...

I was like you once. There's a helicoil in the block of my 351W in my other car as a result. Intake bolt stripped out the threads in the block.

The amount of work to fix that 1 hole was more work than using a torque wrench on every single nut and bolt.

 

[c9zx]

Of the things you listed, only intake bolts. I do use an inch pound torque wrench on oil pan bolts and trans pan bolts resulting in fewer leaks. The ones a sweat bullets about are torque plus degrees rod bolts. I borrow a calibrated wrench from a friend for those. Chuck

 

[Hemikiller]

AMK has a nice diagram for the water pump bolts. I use a torque wrench wherever possible, and have experienced far fewer mysteriously loosened bolts, gasket failures and leaks than when I just used the "calibrated wrist".

 

[spdbk1]

Rod main headbolts yes on the intake most important thought its the proper torque pattern staring center bolts and working ur way out all the other bolts I've always tighten til just tite enuff wo shoving the gasket outta place I also found a co that sold me the keyway that dropped in also on ebay there's a co that makes a finnishing kit for the timing set that saved slot of time

 

[Paul M]

Of course, we are assuming the threads are clean. I try to use thread chasers, now often called thread restorers. Never use taps since they cut instead of clean. If you don't have clean threads, you don't have accurate torque. You can get cheap sets at harbor freight, better than not using them. On my Pontiac build, it changed my head bolt torque up to 10lbs. This definitely applies to threads subjected to water jackets & cases where machinists weren't able to clean everything in the vat.

 

[Paul M]

Out of curiosity...how many of you have actually used a tourqe wrench on your spark plugs, oil drain plugs, distributor hold down bolt or Cleveland/Big Block/Windsor intake bolts. Honor system please, don't lie!!! I've never used a tourque wrench on any of these...

I'm not sure I recommend it for beginners. You need to be experienced in calibrated elbows. I wouldn't trust someone else to even install a plug, they might not use both hands to secure the tool, cracking the porcelain, yet alone get the torque right. Valve covers, oil pans? way too many people over torque them.

 

[Spike Morelli]

I concur, in that I use my torque wrench absolutely for rods, mains, heads, intake, flexplate, mounts. Where the rod bolts are concerned, I will use a stretch guage while torqueing as a check. ARP's recommended torque numbers have been pretty good, as far as meeting the stretch requirement, and the final torque will be to stretch. The customers engine data sheets are always expected to have that notation included. There is another torque that I've gotten into the habit of doing, and that's lug nut torque on the wheels. Years ago, when I worked for Spindler Engineering as the owner's vehicle maintenence man for his car collection, I had some expensive Bizzarinis, Maserattis, Lamborghinis, to attend to, and they ran very costly alloy wheels. You don't guess at tightening something you could damage, they always got torqued to a spec. I guess old habits die hard, as ever since, I've always torqued ( with a drop of oil) my Mustangs lug nuts to shop manual specs.....if I remember correctly it's 80 ft.lbs. I don't feel comfortable relying on an "impact gun" even on stock steel wheels. As a side note, how often have any of you had your torque wrenches calibrated? It's been a few years now for me, but when I worked on aircraft, we had to get all of our torque wrenches checked and certified every six months. There was a service that came around to all of the FBO's that would pick up and drop off, same day, to do that.

 

[Paul M]

I concur, in that I use my torque wrench absolutely for rods, mains, heads, intake, flexplate, mounts. Where the rod bolts are concerned, I will use a stretch guage while torqueing as a check. ARP's recommended torque numbers have been pretty good, as far as meeting the stretch requirement, and the final torque will be to stretch. The customers engine data sheets are always expected to have that notation included. There is another torque that I've gotten into the habit of doing, and that's lug nut torque on the wheels. Years ago, when I worked for Spindler Engineering as the owner's vehicle maintenence man for his car collection, I had some expensive Bizzarinis, Maserattis, Lamborghinis, to attend to, and they ran very costly alloy wheels. You don't guess at tightening something you could damage, they always got torqued to a spec. I guess old habits die hard, as ever since, I've always torqued ( with a drop of oil) my Mustangs lug nuts to shop manual specs.....if I remember correctly it's 80 ft.lbs. I don't feel comfortable relying on an "impact gun" even on stock steel wheels. As a side note, how often have any of you had your torque wrenches calibrated? It's been a few years now for me, but when I worked on aircraft, we had to get all of our torque wrenches checked and certified every six months. There was a service that came around to all of the FBO's that would pick up and drop off, same day, to do that.

Ha, I remember them recalibrating the wrenches at Gas Turbine. I wonder how accurate my personal torque wrenches are now. I still have C200 anti seize containers from building engines in the aircraft industry. I just used a lil on my lug bolts & only use the impact on the lowest setting to thread them on. I always torque them. I've seen some warped discs n galled wheels from impact tightening. Some are stuck to where you have to break them off, and some to the point of pulling threads. Some people are hackers some are milkers. I am running short of 12point nut and bolt scrounge though. I used to build Donalds fleet engines. They were airworthiness directive nightmares. He made a deal with our head honchos to do complete jet engine overhauls for 1/2 million a pc. The going rate was a million. Needless to say, some sections, like T sections that could go further between time in flight than others were pencil whipped. Not completely disassembled and re sermetel coated. They showed us brochures of the extravagant interiors, yet the outdated JT8D's that were flying them left much to be desired. We never had any problems with them, we ran up our own engines on test stands before shipping them. Our worst experience was an Emery mail plane that burned up on the runway at Bradley international. I was put on disassembly, and we found that the time in flight took too many years, there was unseen corrosion & it launched a disc right through the wing hitting the fuel lines. No mail was recovered. I hated that disassembly, there was FAA people standing around in 3 pc suites. Theye'd stand in our way while we were working talking about golf. I don't think they had a clue what we were doing.

 

[giantpune]

I always torque them. I've seen some warped discs n galled wheels from impact tightening. Some are stuck to where you have to break them off, and some to the point of pulling threads.

I learned my lesson the hard way here, too. I used to be a "just tighten it to feel" guy with lug nuts.

I had a lug nut snap on my wife's honda. Thats one of those cars where you can't easily knock the old stud out and zip a new one back in. There's no room with the hub on the car. You have to pull the hub off. Now, I'm not taking the blame for tightening the nut on that one that snapped off. That could have very well been the tire shop or something. All I know is I needed to do the brake pads which was supposed to be a 30 minute job. When I went to take off the lug nuts, one of them was seized and the stud snapped instead. That 30minute job ended up taking me a half day. And from that point on, I made sure I used a torque wrench on the lug nuts.

 

[ib4stangs]

This discussion reminds me of a late friend's signature line over at VMF,

Universal torque spec --"Tight as she'll go, then 2 more turns."

 

[giantpune]

This discussion reminds me of a late friend's signature line over at VMF,

Universal torque spec --"Tight as she'll go, then 2 more turns."

 

[rio1856]

There are those guys that like to use German torque values, like "Guten tight" or the Russian torque spec of "Brokenov" or "Ivan Tighter".

 

[Manu Mach1]

What about the torque on an aluminium intake manifold on cast iron heads ?

 

[giantpune]

What about the torque on an aluminium intake manifold on cast iron heads ?

I went with the instructions that came with my edelbrock intake. 18-20 ftlb on all bolts, in 2 stages.

 

[Manu Mach1]

Thanks for the information! Did you use the valley pan under your intake manifold ?
I have the choice to reinstall the factory 750CFM carb with the heavy cast iron intake manifold, or an aluminium Edelbrock Performer LB 351-4V, with a 600 or 650 CFM Holley carb.

 

[giantpune]

Thanks for the information! Did you use the valley pan under your intake manifold ?
I have the choice to reinstall the factory 750CFM carb with the heavy cast iron intake manifold, or an aluminium Edelbrock Performer LB 351-4V, with a 600 or 650 CFM Holley carb.

I did not. If you follow the instructions to the letter, they have you install a set of intake gaskets that block off the heat crossover ports and no valley pan.

 

[Manu Mach1]

I did not. If you follow the instructions to the letter, they have you install a set of intake gaskets that block off the heat crossover ports and no valley pan.

Ok, so no need to install the valley pan. Is it because the difference of materiel, iron vs aluminium ?