C-6 to T-5 swap

[marks73]

TheJ is making wooden custom shift knobs for our toploaders. You may want to PM him.

 

[shgrrttn]

Well it's been a long time since the last update. There have been a couple of snags in getting the car going. First is finding the correct starter. The pocket in the V-6 bell housing is offset for a gear reduction starter. The starter that matches the bellhousing has a gear that will work well for an automatic or later model flywheel where the ring gear is on the clutch side of the flywheel. The ring gear on a '73 flywheel is on the engine side which causes the starter gear to be in constant mesh, not good for the starter. An old style bendix starter will not fit the bellhousing. The answer is a specialty gear reduction starter for the early manual transmission. I'll find out this weekend how it works. Second is the driveshaft. I sold the C-6 driveshaft to a member who needed it since it was too short anyway. The driveshaft needs to be 49" with my combination. I picked up a Fox body driveshaft from a local car club member (freebie, my favorite price). The issue is the fox shavt uses a 1330 u-joint and the rear yoke uses a 1310 joint. Heres the rub the 9" also uses 1-1/8" diameter caps instead of conventional 1-1/16" caps. I found a u-joint kit by Ford racing @ Summit which is a 1310/1330 combination joint with extra 1-1/8" caps. So all that stands between me and shifting my own gears is installing the starter, bypassing the wiring connector for the neutral safety switch, bypassing the seat belt warning connection to the NSS and having the d-shaft lengthened (install new tube). It's close!!! I hope to have the car running this weekend and hopefully the d-shaft built and installed next week (3-5 days for the shop). I hope to get a video of the first drive.

So what was your solution to the starter/flywheel ring gear problem? I am currently doing the exact same swap and am at the point of buying a mini starter and mocking things up. I was thinking of fabbing up a spacer for the starter if a suitable one cannot be found. Or possibly moving the ring gear to the clutch side of the flywheel. What did you end up doing?

 

[droptop73]

Well I found 2 issues, the late model starter would not work with my flywheel and the earlier model starter had too big a "register" ring for the V-6 block plate. My solution was an early 90's F150 manual transmission starter. It is PMGR (mini) starter with a large register ring. I took a 90* air grinder with a flap wheel and opened up the hole until the starter fit, it's about 1/16" larger than the hole.

My other issue was the starter not dis-engaging. Once a PMGR starter starts spinning it self energizes and returns slowly. The fix for this was to run the main power cable from the battery cable from the battery side of the original solenoid to the large connection on the starter. Then a 10 gauge wire from the output side of the original starter solenoid to the switch terminal of the new starter solenoid. That worked flawlessly and stopped the starter from dragging. I will not describe the way I wired it before as I don't want to muddy the issue.

 

[shgrrttn]

Well I found 2 issues, the late model starter would not work with my flywheel and the earlier model starter had too big a "register" ring for the V-6 block plate. My solution was an early 90's F150 manual transmission starter. It is PMGR (mini) starter with a large register ring. I took a 90* air grinder with a flap wheel and opened up the hole until the starter fit, it's about 1/16" larger than the hole.

My other issue was the starter not dis-engaging. Once a PMGR starter starts spinning it self energizes and returns slowly. The fix for this was to run the main power cable from the battery cable from the battery side of the original solenoid to the large connection on the starter. Then a 10 gauge wire from the output side of the original starter solenoid to the switch terminal of the new starter solenoid. That worked flawlessly and stopped the starter from dragging. I will not describe the way I wired it before as I don't want to muddy the issue.

Awesome. I would have bought the wrong starter for sure. Thanks! You have been driving it for a little while now, any other little gremlins show up?

 

[droptop73]

Just my home fabbed equalizer bar, a weld I didn't really like failed ai ended up on a flatbed headed for home and repairs. A new bar is in the works. I've got over 10k miles on the swap over the last 2 summers and still say it's the best mod I've ever done on any car I've had.

Enjoy your swap! I did have difficulty finding a shift lever that put the knob where I liked it. I'm kinda tall and like to sprawl out in the car. I moved the seats back 3". I fabbed the lever from a hunk of 1/2"X4"X12" aluminum.

 

[kidwithfastback=fast]

Hey Jeff! What about the parts list and templates, man??

P.S. Sorry for yet again digging this thread up

 

[auron73mach1]

It is ok we forgive you lol!

Edit: This thread is neither vile nor moronic but it is a funny picture.

 

[droptop73]

The templates are in the trailer with my car in my friend's back yard under 4 feet of snow.

The parts list is in progress but i've been real busy!

Hey Auron, the thread may not be vile or moronic but watch out for the author! LOL

 

[kidwithfastback=fast]

We'll be waiting!

I'll show up at your house with an army of highschool girls and their hairdryers to melt that snow if i have to.

 

[droptop73]

Anything to melt the snow!

 

[droptop73]

Well... it's been 9 years and about 50k miles on this swap. I decided to pull the engine and trans to re-seal the engine and do some other work. I looked at the clutch and it looks pretty good for it's age. 

I'm going to add some photos of things I didn't document very well in this thread over the winter. There are tons of things to clean up and refresh. 

 

[Cribbs74]

Looks pretty good for 6 yrs of use. I read through the thread. Did you manage to make a parts list since 2014?

 

[droptop73]

Like many things... it has been started but not completed. 

 

[jeae1999]

What did use as a crossmember?

 

[dkgd91]

Like many things... it has been started but not completed.

hello i have a question what is the engine you have? because i've got a t5 but i dont know if it gonna work with my 351 C thanks for your answer

 

[Idaho Chris]

Modern Driveline makes a cross member that will work with your T-5 transmission.

https://www.moderndriveline.com/sho...stang/crossmember-1967-73-mustang-cougar-t-5/

 

[droptop73]

hello i have a question what is the engine you have? because i've got a t5 but i dont know if it gonna work with my 351 C thanks for your answer

I have a mild 351c 2V heads and a Performer intake with a 650ish Holley. The T-5 is plenty strong for normal use. They break due to shock loads.

 

[Ripper]

Well... it's been 9 years and about 50k miles on this swap. I decided to pull the engine and trans to re-seal the engine and do some other work. I looked at the clutch and it looks pretty good for it's age.

I'm going to add some photos of things I didn't document very well in this thread over the winter. There are tons of things to clean up and refresh.

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What size is your clutch disc/kit? I’m doing the same swap in my 73. Modern Driveline suggests a 10.4” metric (mixed metaphor) clutch kit. I’ve read that any clutch from a mid 80‘s 5.0l fox body will work. But they have varying sizes, from 10” -11”. What brand & size did you use?
Thanks in advance for any help. Ripper

 

[351c1971]

Stock was 11” disc with 164 tooth, 28 oz imbalance flywheel. I recommend Centerforce clutches. Many other aftermarket clutches are POS.

 

[droptop73]

What size is your clutch disc/kit? I’m doing the same swap in my 73. Modern Driveline suggests a 10.4” metric (mixed metaphor) clutch kit. I’ve read that any clutch from a mid 80‘s 5.0l fox body will work. But they have varying sizes, from 10” -11”. What brand & size did you use?
Thanks in advance for any help. Ripper

I used a 90's V6 bell housing that takes an 11" clutch and 164T flywheel... why the V6 uses an 11" and a V8 uses a 10.5 you'd need to ask the engineers. I used a rebuilder grade flywheel, disc and diaprhagm pressure plate kit, Rhinopack I think was the brand. I went with the 11" so I could use OE replacement stuff for the Cleveland. The Fox body throw out bearing is the only "different" part.
If you are going with a "kit" I'd stick with what they recommend. I did my own hodge-podge of parts to make it work. Like many things I tend to overthink stuff and choose the low buck time proven parts. The 90's trans has a longer input shaft and deeper bellhousing that moves the trans back about 3/4" from the Fox body stuff. The shifter comes up at the rear edge of the factory opening.
I hope I answered your questions...

 

[351c1971]

Any car 302 or 351 bellhousing from 70-73 should work. I used an aluminum bellhousing from a 1972 Mustang 302W.