EXCELLENT Paint brand

[mus72]

Epoxy primer isn't used much in Ireland either but I wanted to use it because it isn't porus like 2k but while nobody was knocking it I was told it didn't suit being sprayed in a cool enviroment ie under 20c and this temp would need to be sustained for nearly an hour other wise I could get micro blistering showing later . I wouldn't mind hearing you're view on this.

You are correct for spi there is a minimum METAL temperature for spraying..& that temperature MUST be maintained for more than an hour..When I did my front clip I kept the shop at 70 for 6 hours after application & never let it get below 65 for a full 24 hours..Best to check with spi & ask them about temperature & how long that temp must be maintained AFTER application..

Thanks for that its nice to know I wasn't been given a bum steer

 

[philt]

You are correct but since I live in Florida, the temperature isnt that big an issue. DP40 is NOT the same as D822. D822 was explained to me by Tamcos owner Bob Barney. According to him, its the clay they use that makes it so sandable. The Resin is high quality made by Kukdo.

Bob knows A LOT about paint chemistry. I will not go into his history but I will tell you IF he can duplicates this formula and makes it less expensive, he WILL have a hit on his hands.

Scott, Im glad your PPG rep is going to offer you a sample. I wish Barry at SPI would have done that for me. I wasted $200.00 on Epoxy I will only use on the inside of the vehicle, under upholstry and carpet. I wont use it on the outside of the car, I wont use 2K primer to build over SPI primer on a vehicle that will be sponsored by a fortune 50 company and displayed at SEMA 2014.

If TAMCO hasnt gotten off the dime to produce this formula, Ill be buying PPG for my KigerStang project tomorrow.

Oh, and BTW, I understand for collision work or fast turns, 2K primer is fine. But for very high end show cars, D822 is much preferred to those that have used it and know the difference.

 

[Austin Vert]

Hi Scott Again,

Thank you for your reply and spec information on epoxies. I see what you mean about the properties and advantages of using epoxies over conventinal 2K primers and putties as you describe. On that basis, i must agree with you, and i find no arguement against you.

However, the only honest feedback i could give you is that in my experience in the trade, i've never had any rust appearing and eventually coming through issues, when iv'e painted 2k Primer/Putties over properly prepaired clean mild steel, and then followed through with quality color/base/clear coats. And also, i don't have shrinkage or sinkback issues with the 2K systems, providing you give your paint the right bake temp and bake & cure times.

On that basis i end up getting the results i want. I will say though, that i've used some clearcoats, that for some reason, don't want to cure properly no matter what you do. For me. that has been a problem sometimes. I'm currently using PPG where i work, and find it a reasonable quality paint.

Going your way, and using epoxies, would definately be the 'Rolls Royce',best quality way to go, i guess, but as i said, going 2K does it for me.

To each his own i guess. Thanks again for your feedback,and may your clear coat not get runs.

Greg.

Greg,

I would have to agree with you on the 2k in a shop production environment..it's the standard procedure for that type of work..usually the cars don't sit around too long & the fact of using a down draft baking booth changes the whole equation especially baking the primer (I always did in my shop it's the way to go)..BUT in a restoration environment no baking booth situation the conditions are different. The cars usually sit for long periods of time even years before being top coated..I would feel 110% confident taking a car that was fully primed in epoxy & leaving it in the rain outside long term with no fear of rust appearing..do the same with 2k & watch what happens.

All Im saying Scott is TRY PPG D822. You will NEVER go back to Epoxy and then covering over with 2K. Its more money, more time and doesnt look as good over the long run. D822 ELIMINATES the need for a 2K primer....

Its a true EPOXY, sands better than 2K, It fills better 2K, it doesnt shrink at all after 48 hours.... Why do I need 2K???

I tried your paint, now try mine. Once you do... You will NEVER use 2K primer again. PERIOD.

Unless you are a sales person for SPI, I'm not sure why you are so hesitant to try something else....

The more you know, the more questions need to be answered.

BTW, you dont need to wet sand it either.... 2 wet coats , dry block with 80, 2 more coats dry block with 220 and then when you are ready to paint, add reducer (making it a sealer) and DA with 320. Again ALL dry. Super easy, super fast...

Enough on the subject, you can lead a horse to water.. you know the rest.

If you are unwilling to try it, your loss..

Phil,

First let me say I'm in no way related to spi or a salesperson for them..There are many ways to get the job done Some take the a train some take the b train to get to the same destination..I'm always open to new better ways to do things..My friends large restoration shop is a ppg shop..I'm going to get him to contact his ppg rep & set up a meet with him..& get the low down direct from the horses mouth on D822..Keep you posted..

Scott,

Yes, i would have to agree with you 100% on that. I see your point about epoxy applications when it comes to resto work. A painter would be well advised to use epoxies on that basis to land a first class job.

I have ,from time to time, got involved with resto work over the years, but i've mainly been involved with production shops, and new car waranty work etc.

I must compliment you Scott. You sound like a man who knows the business. Thanks again in taking the time to discuss this one with me.

All the best for now,

Greg

So which primer would work better in a strait garage enviornment where you can't gaurentee metal temp staying 60 overnight?

Hi Mark,

I think Scott would be a good advisor on correct product useage for you,

being up on the American brands and products etc.

Although a key starter question would be, are you approaching your work as a long term resto, or a fairly fast turn around project.

That would make a difference in product type useage for sure.

All the best,

Greg.

 

[Qcode351mach]

I wont use it on the outside of the car, I wont use 2K primer to build over SPI primer on a vehicle that will be sponsored by a fortune 50 company and displayed at SEMA 2014.

Phil,

All I will say is look at all the award winning cars that have been painted using spi products following the procedures they outline..(epoxy base 2k on top ) Including this 69 gto judge that sold for 682k..There's a reason all the top builders use these products and procedures..The proof is in the pudding..Ultimately It's your ride & your decision to do as you please..As I said, if you want to get rid of the spi epoxy you bought I will be more than happy to take it off your hands..

http://www.spiuserforum.com/showthread.php?235-1969-Pontiac-GTO-Judge-Ram-Air-IV-Convertible-sells-for-record-682-000

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/gallery/photospage/1/slideshow.htm?1-true

 

[philt]

Yep, you can say that about all the brands. I was talking to my buddy Mike Colleta about this very thing this morning. There are Dupont Guys, PPG guys, Galsurit guys, Sikkens guys, Sherwin Williams guys, Kirker Guys, SPI guys, TAMCO guys.

They are all willing to go to bat for their paint. Some willing to fight over it.

Bought my PPG this morning. $219.65 for the primer. $77.85 for the hardener. To me, its worth it.

BTW, TAMCO will have the equivalent PPG D822 formula done tomorrow. Getting a sample of that too. I'll keep you posted.

I'll use the SPI somewhere.

Best to you.

 

[Tnfastbk]

Paint test

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/11/12/car-paint-tested-in-sun-drenched-florida-field/

 

[philt]

UPDATE:

Tamco developed a special batch of Epoxy primer. (at no cost including shipping, thanks Bob) Although I havent shot it yet, I was warned they were not able to duplicate PPGs D822. D822 tacks at around 10 minutes at 70 degrees. So you dont have to wait 30 minutes between coats. It also is sandable at 60 minutes (depending on build) with NO paper loading unlike ALL other Epoxies I've tried. Tamco says 24 hours to sand, other EPOXY brands that will remain nameless have been the same.

So although I thought I would get an equivelant paint at lower cost, its not going to happen. Oh well.