my 1971 351 Boss restoration

[Steven Harris]

Ah yes Abudi,

How time drags slowly by while waiting on your car to be painted. Looking forward to the color flying!

 

[canadian_red_maple_leaf]

i got a glimps of my newly painted boss. unfortunately i only got 1 picture....

i told the paint guy: "your're killing me!!!, send me more pictures!"



i'll be posting more pics in the next few days...

a very happy abudi !!!

 

[Spechti]

Congratulations, Abudi!

As I see, your Boss is some steps ahead of my Mach 1. On my car, panel alignment is almost done and at the moment we are trying to give more strength to the roof sheet metal by attaching 3 additional stiffeners. A thing Ford forgot...

My car also has taken almost one year of work in the body shop. Like on yours, the major body work was made old school style. Also tin/lead was used instead of bondo. Seams (where reachable) were welded with the factory-like resistance spot welding to reproduce identical weld spots. Also torch welding, hard soldering, and MIG welding were used.

My respect and compliment for you and the guys working with you on the car.

Michael

 

[Steven Harris]

That one picture speaks volumes Abudi! Like you, we are looking forward to seeing the rest.

 

[OLE PONY]

Nothing like a teaser picture to keep your anticipation up!

 

[Fordication]

That is incredible. Do not be afraid to contact this forum if you need a part sent to you cheaper than you can get it there. I love the car and hope to see it when its finished.

 

[M Beauchamp]

Congratulations, Abudi!

As I see, your Boss is some steps ahead of my Mach 1. On my car, panel alignment is almost done and at the moment we are trying to give more strength to the roof sheet metal by attaching 3 additional stiffeners. A thing Ford forgot...

My car also has taken almost one year of work in the body shop. Like on yours, the major body work was made old school style. Also tin/lead was used instead of bondo. Seams (where reachable) were welded with the factory-like resistance spot welding to reproduce identical weld spots. Also torch welding, hard soldering, and MIG welding were used.

My respect and compliment for you and the guys working with you on the car.

Michael

I would like to see your tin/lead pics and tips.

I heard that if you take your time and do it correctly that you don't need any spot puddy.

I think that the original seam joints or at edges of the panels would be easy enough.

But could you do a spot in the middle of a panel without warping that panel?

Marc

 

[canadian_red_maple_leaf]

hi guys,

let there be bright red

i just got the pictures yesterday. i'll be going to the paint shop in the next few days to align the doors and fenders. then we can finally paint the lower side stripes. i can't wait to see my 351. looks like i'm going to be bumping this thread up from now on

 

[mach71351c]

Nice work.

 

[Spechti]

If I may, I will take a short opportunity to contribute some pics of the tin/lead solder work on a Mach 1.

This technique is not only used by european body craftsmen or restorers, it was also used by Ford on the assembly line, namely where the seams of the roof sheetmetal meet the pillars and the quarter panel.

In this case the right quarter panel on the Mach 1 was changed because there were several deformations, kinks and rust-troughs beyond economical repair. Also the inner wheelhousing was deformed. To get better access to it, the old quarter panel was removed and a Scott Drake quarter sheetmetal was welded in. The fit was quite poor and a lot of modifications and custom work had to be done.

I would like to see your tin/lead pics and tips.I heard that if you take your time and do it correctly that you don't need any spot puddy.

Right. No coarse putty work is needed. The solder is sanded and painted with body filler. In some cases some fine putty is used to cover fine irregularities.

But could you do a spot in the middle of a panel without warping that panel?

The metal does not warp because the temperatures working with tin/lead are not high enough to deform steel. The melting point of the solder is around 190 degrees Celsius (374°F).



The freshly welded seam of the new quarter panel.



The primer is generously removed and sanded to the bare metal. Some roughness benefits adhedsion of the solder. A flux is applied to the metal (a whitish paste). Then the flux is heated with a torch and the melting tin components in the flux adhere to the steel, making a perfect contact face.



Then the flux is heated with a torch and the melting tin components in the flux adhere to the steel, making a perfect contact face.



The solder is applied. The tin/lead mixture is heated with a torch until it gets creamy soft, not liquid. In this condition and with the heat of the torch, it is spreaded to the surface. The tool for this is a metal spoon. Some older craftsmen use tools an blocks made from hardwood. The seam is totally covered.



After cooling down the excess of solder is removed wit a cheese grater body file. This also shapes the new surface. Then it is sanded on block.



The panel is ready for primer and filler.

Why all this? Why not take a pot of bondo?

Simple answer. Bondo does not make a permanent and safe connection to metal surfaces. Especially not when you have serious environment temperature changes. Sooner or later a thicker layer of bondo cracks, chips or separates from the sheetmetal because of its different tmperature expansion and contraction behavior. Another point is vibration.

Tin/lead mixture makes a permanent metal-to-metal adhesion that lasts a hundred years if properly made. Also rust protection is better than with bondo.

I hope this will answer some questions.

Sorry, Abudi, for "hijacking" your thread with this, but I thought it might be of interest here...

Michael

 

[M Beauchamp]

Thanks guys for the Tin/Lead lesson.

This is some nice trademenship

I am going to try this in the next week or two, if it turns out I will post my results.

I want to do my car with no bondo, becuase I never want to do the body again.

I have seen test pieces that where bent with no delamination, which is very important with all the flexing the car takes.

Abudi the car looks great!

Now I want a fastback too!

Marc

 

[canadian_red_maple_leaf]

great post michael. very informative...thanks for the update

abudi

 

[luxstang]

Way to go Abudi. Keep those pics coming. Looking good!

 

[FasTnNefariouS]

Awesome restoration! Keep up the great work.

DJ

 

[Fordication]

Love this thread.

 

[Qcode351mach]

If I may, I will take a short opportunity to contribute some pics of the tin/lead solder work on a Mach 1.

This technique is not only used by european body craftsmen or restorers, it was also used by Ford on the assembly line, namely where the seams of the roof sheetmetal meet the pillars and the quarter panel.

In this case the right quarter panel on the Mach 1 was changed because there were several deformations, kinks and rust-troughs beyond economical repair. Also the inner wheelhousing was deformed. To get better access to it, the old quarter panel was removed and a Scott Drake quarter sheetmetal was welded in. The fit was quite poor and a lot of modifications and custom work had to be done.

I would like to see your tin/lead pics and tips.I heard that if you take your time and do it correctly that you don't need any spot puddy.

Right. No coarse putty work is needed. The solder is sanded and painted with body filler. In some cases some fine putty is used to cover fine irregularities.

But could you do a spot in the middle of a panel without warping that panel?

The metal does not warp because the temperatures working with tin/lead are not high enough to deform steel. The melting point of the solder is around 190 degrees Celsius (374°F).

The freshly welded seam of the new quarter panel.

The primer is generously removed and sanded to the bare metal. Some roughness benefits adhedsion of the solder. A flux is applied to the metal (a whitish paste). Then the flux is heated with a torch and the melting tin components in the flux adhere to the steel, making a perfect contact face.

Then the flux is heated with a torch and the melting tin components in the flux adhere to the steel, making a perfect contact face.

The solder is applied. The tin/lead mixture is heated with a torch until it gets creamy soft, not liquid. In this condition and with the heat of the torch, it is spreaded to the surface. The tool for this is a metal spoon. Some older craftsmen use tools an blocks made from hardwood. The seam is totally covered.

After cooling down the excess of solder is removed wit a cheese grater body file. This also shapes the new surface. Then it is sanded on block.

The panel is ready for primer and filler.

Why all this? Why not take a pot of bondo?

Simple answer. Bondo does not make a permanent and safe connection to metal surfaces. Especially not when you have serious environment temperature changes. Sooner or later a thicker layer of bondo cracks, chips or separates from the sheetmetal because of its different tmperature expansion and contraction behavior. Another point is vibration.

Tin/lead mixture makes a permanent metal-to-metal adhesion that lasts a hundred years if properly made. Also rust protection is better than with bondo.

I hope this will answer some questions.

Sorry, Abudi, for "hijacking" your thread with this, but I thought it might be of interest here...

Michael

Nice work for sure! As one of the few who still does this type of work a few points I will interject, First if you do a lap seam (looks like that from the picture ) & NOT a butt weld & don't lead the inside of the joint your work is for naught..The joint is still susceptible to rust & corrosion..Besides the reasons you stated that bondo will not hold up in this type of repair.. The main reason bondo, kitty hair, etc dosn't hold up is that bondo & most fillers are porous & unless you isolate the filler from moisture it starts a process which over time rusts the metal & compromises the repair. The correct way is to spray epoxy primer on the repair first then do your filler work on top of the primer. this forms a barrier between the metal & filler (regular primer will not isolate the filler ONLY EPOXY PRIMER WILL)..after smoothing, body work ,etc. epoxy primer should then sprayed on the filler & the repair area in other words your filler should be "sandwiched" in between the epoxy. Then you do your urethane primer for blocking etc. Most people won't pay for the type of work your doing in the pictures nor do alot of shops even have a clue how do that type work..Its time consuming & the solder & materials are not cheap! Thats why you see guys loading up the filler right on to bare metal ! So you know there are proper structural adhesives & semi flexible epoxy fillers that are available to execute this type of repair properly with out doing solder work but again not cheap for the materials & you still need to do the procedure I outlined with the epoxy primer. I would feel super confident using the correct structural filler adhesive to do this repair & that's exactly what I'm going to use to fill in the roof to quarter joint on my car. I have seen lead / solder joints crack before from stress So even though I have done this type of work before.. it's going to be an epoxy based semi flexible filler for me. Nice write up...Nice work..& make sure you seal up the backside with lead or epoxy based filler (if you didn't butt weld the seam)

Scott

 

[Spechti]

@qcode351mach

You are right. The seam is not butt welded, but there is an overlap. This was done to give the sheetmetal more structure and stabilty and also to minimize the danger of warping during welding. When looked closely from inside the trunk you can see the crimped corrugation along the seam. Prior to welding, the surfaces in the overlapping section were treated with a special, very heat-resistant primer named Inox. After the welding was finished and the metal had cooled down, some of this primer was thinned and thoroughly massaged into the small gap of the joined secctions with a brush. This was done to replace the primer that burned away during the welding process and seals the seam.

You are again right regarding the nature of bondo being more resistant when painted. But bondo has another enemy: vibration. Especially on large sheetmetal areas bondo tends to crack and loosen by vibration when layered thick.

Prior to final smoothing with fine putty - like you said -the car will be coated again with epoxy primer inside and outside to prevent direct contcat of smoothing compounds to bare metal.

Michael

 

[Qcode351mach]

@qcode351mach

You are right. The seam is not butt welded, but there is an overlap. This was done to give the sheetmetal more structure and stabilty and also to minimize the danger of warping during welding. When looked closely from inside the trunk you can see the crimped corrugation along the seam. Prior to welding, the surfaces in the overlapping section were treated with a special, very heat-resistant primer named Inox. After the welding was finished and the metal had cooled down, some of this primer was thinned and thoroughly massaged into the small gap of the joined secctions with a brush. This was done to replace the primer that burned away during the welding process and seals the seam.

You are again right regarding the nature of bondo being more resistant when painted. But bondo has another enemy: vibration. Especially on large sheetmetal areas bondo tends to crack and loosen by vibration when layered thick.

Prior to final smoothing with fine putty - like you said -the car will be coated again with epoxy primer inside and outside to prevent direct contcat of smoothing compounds to bare metal.

Michael

I will sum it up very quickly BONDO IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR QUALITY TOP NOTCH METAL WORK And top notch metal work seems to be a dying art form driven by 2 things 1 the majority of body work done these days is paid for by Insurance company's & 2 The fastest way to beat the clock on the allowed time by the insurance co. Believe it or not if you take the auto body repair industry as a whole & break down the percent doing collision production work & restoration work the restoration end of the pie is a very small percentage. I spent over 25 years in the business so I know first hand. Most of your techs these days come from the production end of the business & very few have apprenticed with a master panel beater fabricator. & Very few have the drive or desire to perfect their trade to the utmost level they can..I remember working in a shop FOR FREE when i was 14 years old sweeping floors just to watch & learn..How many would do that today? I've been through many collision training courses... lead work ...major panel straightening is not even taught..It's all labor cost vs replacement.

 

[canadian_red_maple_leaf]

if everything goes as planned, i'll be getting my boss back on sunday. i'm going to the paint shop 2morrow to align the doors and the fenders so we can paint the black side parts. can't wait to get my baby back home.

 

[canadian_red_maple_leaf]

hi folks,

i was at the paint shop today and shot a few pictures after the door and fender alignment. all in all things are pretty much on track. i should be getting the car back on sunday and once it's in my garage i'll probably be there day and night.

the pictures a little bigger than usual.....









thanks

abudi