Need help with the infamous tilt column rag joint please...

[MooseStang]

Ok. I need the Cliff note version for this thread.
Is there or is there not a coupler currently available for tilt steering? Lares?

 

[kcmash]

There is not. Lares is working to reproduce one, likely next year for a release.

 

[jomar1957]

I have a metal lathe if I get the measurements and thread size I can make up a bunch.Anybody willing to take some measurements? And post?

 

[giantpune]

I have a metal lathe if I get the measurements and thread size I can make up a bunch.Anybody willing to take some measurements? And post?

They are talking about missing rivets. There shouldn't be any thread size to worry about.

I think most likely the correct size rivets can be ordered from one of the big name rivet/fastener companies. Somebody just needs to figure out what size and what shape for the bucking tool if they are going for concourse restoration.

 

[Don C]

I am installing a tilt column from a late 1980s F150 into my '71 Mustang and found the rag joint I need from this guy on E-Bay, a 1" double D to the 13/16" 36 spline power box. You might check with him to see if he can provide the 3/4" single D to 13/16" 36 spline coupler:
https://www.ebay.com/str/southwestspeedinc

 

[Grant]

For my 73 Mach with tilt, I ended up sawing off the rivets from the new Lares unit and harvesting the rubber donut. It slipped perfectly into the spline/collar of the original rag joint, using the original bolts. It was relatively easy, but assumes the collar pieces/splines are in good shape

 

[vikingsandpintos]

I am the Earl Lewis from the Facebook post

Yes, I bought a tilt column, to replace the standard column. I ran into the problem with the rag joint, and wondered about changing the lower shaft. I was able to remove both shafts, and swap them between the columns. I have not bolted it into the car yet, cause life, lol. But I plan on getting back onto it this winter, hopefully very soon. I can try to get pics or more info, as it was several years ago by now. But I didn't see any issues that should stop me from using the new column with the old lower shaft

 

[kcmash]

Vikingsandpintos you are correct. You can change out the lower shaft and use a standard rag joint. Another option is to change to a coupler versus the rag joint. Conversions are available.

kcmash

 

[kcmash]

I have a metal lathe if I get the measurements and thread size I can make up a bunch.Anybody willing to take some measurements? And post?

Here ae the rivet dimensions that I was able to get.

 

[tony-muscle]

I wish I remember how did I fix this dilemma about 7 years ago. I made a post in a parallel thread about the parts that I have receipts for but I can't remember what I used (https://7173mustangs.com/threads/wa...t-column-rag-joint-coupler.43959/#post-441868). I assume I reuse the flange on the tilt column with one of the rag joints, but I can't remember which one. I will be taking the column out this winter to be sent for refurbish. At that time I will be fabricating an aluminum/PUR composite disc with the idea of having a firmer steering. The rebuild kit I have has the rivets with threads, which I am planning on using. I will take a picture and post it later. Based on the bag, I think my rebuild kit is from the former Mustangs Unlimited, p/n SW120025.

 

[tony-muscle]

Here ae the rivet dimensions that I was able to get.

Will a bolt in a 13/32 bushing work?
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/bushings/drill-bushings-1~/od~13-32/

 

[Bobby]

With all this steering talk going on, I have a question. I had my steering column rebuilt in 2019. Also replaced the power steering gearbox and a frankenjoint to adapt the tilt column to the box. The steering is still a little sloppy. I fine tuned the adjustment on the box but no effect. Could it be the u-joint in the tilt column? Tony-muscle mentioned using an aluminum/PUR composite disc instead of a soft or rigid “rag”…..comments?

 

[tony-muscle]

With all this steering talk going on, I have a question. I had my steering column rebuilt in 2019. Also replaced the power steering gearbox and a frankenjoint to adapt the tilt column to the box. The steering is still a little sloppy. I fine tuned the adjustment on the box but no effect. Could it be the u-joint in the tilt column? Tony-muscle mentioned using an aluminum/PUR composite disc instead of a soft or rigid “rag”…..comments?

These are the areas that I can think of creating slop:
-Rag joint
-Steering box
-Tie rods/ball joints

We have 6 tie rods/ball joints in our systems: 2x outer tie rods; 2x inner tie rods; 2x idle bars tie rod (pitman and idle arm). So I will make sure all those are good. Even with a good working system you will have very little slop on each tie rod that adds up, plus a little more from the rag joint. All these will add up to slop that you can feel. Of all these the rag joint will provide the biggest slop. I consider my steering system "tight" but I can still see the slop between the steering wheel and steering box shafts. For a "slop-less" steering the next step would be a rack & pinion that has only two tie rods.

 

[Bobby]

These are the areas that I can think of creating slop:
-Rag joint
-Steering box
-Tie rods/ball joints

We have 6 tie rods/ball joints in our systems: 2x outer tie rods; 2x inner tie rods; 2x idle bars tie rod (pitman and idle arm). So I will make sure all those are good. Even with a good working system you will have very little slop on each tie rod that adds up, plus a little more from the rag joint. All these will add up to slop that you can feel. Of all these the rag joint will provide the biggest slop. I consider my steering system "tight" but I can still see the slop between the steering wheel and steering box shafts. For a "slop-less" steering the next step would be a rack & pinion that has only two tie rods.

All the inner and outer tie rod ends and the idler arm have been replaced along with the lower control arms and all the ball joints. The upper half of the rag joint is ancient but it fits the D end of the tilt shaft. The lower rag joint is new and fits nicely to the box spline shaft. The rag is rubber and also new so that why I was wondering if it could be the tilt shaft u joint. Rack and pinion retrofit is not cost effective.

 

[jomar1957]

Here ae the rivet dimensions that I was able to get.

Here ae the rivet dimensions that I was able to get.

 

[jomar1957]

I just made one per your blue print , does it look right?

 

[kcmash]

I just made one per your blue print , does it look right?

Looks like it to me!
Not sure if the tip was originally solid, or had a counterbore.

Let me know how much per piece when you are done.

 

[tony-muscle]

All the inner and outer tie rod ends and the idler arm have been replaced along with the lower control arms and all the ball joints. The upper half of the rag joint is ancient but it fits the D end of the tilt shaft. The lower rag joint is new and fits nicely to the box spline shaft. The rag is rubber and also new so that why I was wondering if it could be the tilt shaft u joint. Rack and pinion retrofit is not cost effective.

Have someone turn the steering wheel and look down at the movement. Maybe you can get an idea of the slop. If you get under the car you can also try the opposite and turn the rag joint to look for slop.

 

[Stanglover]

While I have literally zero knowledge of tilt steering columns, it beats me why the rag joints for tilt and non tilt could not have been made the same. Afterall, a Saginaw 800 PS box has 13/16" 31 spline for both applications. Manuals would also be the same in their respective size. SO, why did there need to be a different connection in the first place? I could well be missing something as I've never actually seen one, but as someone who spent years working in automotive parts development (air induction mainly) the logic escapes me. Some of the "engineers" I worked with, possess very little logic..... believe me!
With a tilt column, isn't it the top end of the column that moves? If so, why is the bottom different?
As for slop in the steering wheel there will always be a small amount of movement measured at the TOP of the wheel. Any more than a 1/2" I would consider slack.
After a so called professional PS box rebuilder damn near put me in the ditch after I got my PS box done, I decided to learn myself how to do them. I'll not go into detail, but the main source of slack is wear between the rack piston groove and the ball diameter. Ford used to sell rebuild sets of ball in 6 sizes and to 5 decimals, i.e. very minute tolerances. You CANNOT adjust slack by tightening the sector shaft down. That will put you in the ditch for sure. The sector shaft adjuster is for setting, or adjusting total preload only!! Therefore too much slack means your balls are worn. (did I say that!) A couple of thou there results in maybe 2" slack on the s/wheel.

 

[Hemikiller]

Made this a little while back, going to install it over the winter and see how it feels in the spring. Six layers of 16ga steel to duplicate the rag joint thickness.