Problem found with Hella LED conversion headlights.

[Stanglover]

I have decided that the search for another alternative for sealing the Hella (or similar) LED headlight conversion many of us have done (and if not, why not), is not working out too well. Not to say a rubber seal couldn't be made to work, but the plastic shield idea I came up with, seems to be the best approach. I'll admit it is still to be tested under actual rain conditions, but the "hose test" showed no sign of water getting in. I don't intentionally take the car out in the rain, but I may have too just to prove they really work under actual conditions.
I have identified a couple of small improvements I can make to the vacuum form and with that done and an actual test, I can offer sets for sale if anybody is interested. I'll of course place a For Sale ad in the classifieds, but for now, I'm testing the waters so to speak. I'm not looking to make a fortune, just cover my cost and shipping. I'm think $25 US per set including 1/4-28 (SS if I can get them) nylon lock nuts and washers.
PM if interested please.

 

[Stanglover]

Water Shield Update:

I have finally got this water shield to a point where I could offer them for sale. They will be only made to order and MAY include the need for some trimming by the purchaser. I will discuss each order separately and supply instructions.
Here's is a picture of the finished shield as it fits on my car, but note, the 1/4-28 SS nut is not yet on. It utilizes the headlight adjuster bolt, which is very convenient.
An ad will be placed accordingly.
If anyone has any thoughts or comments, please either post them or PM me directly.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[Stanglover]

Guys, just to be sure, can someone please post a pic of the top side of a standard 71 or 72 (non Mach 1) grill. I need the part that is over the headlight adjacent to the headlight bucket. I'm 99% sure the fit over the headlight is the same, but I'd like to be 100% sure. A close up shot would be preferred. Similar to the shot of mine would be ok too.
Thanks.

 

[mrgmhale]

I would love to help, but all we have are two 1973 Mustangs...

 

[Stanglover]

I would love to help, but all we have are two 1973 Mustangs...

No problem. There is a guy who lives not too far away from me with a 73. I've arranged to go see his car on the weekend.
From pictures I've seen, I know the grill has more space between the bucket and top of the grill, i.e. a big friggin hole!
Thanks for your reply.

 

[Stanglover]

Yet another update and introducing a major shift in direction.
After looking at the 73's grill differences and also consulting with a member who's car has hood twist locks that posed a problem I was unaware of, I decided to rethink the entire idea.
Not to say the original design won't work in most situations, but there would need to be a separate design for twist locks and for the 73's, with or without twist locks. That is still a possibility down the road. As said, this idea was to fix a problem on my car only.
The problem with the Hella lamps and our cars, is the headlight area is open to any water that gets in through the gap between the hood and fenders. With the older sealed beam lights, this is not a problem, but with Hella lamps, there are small openings where water does get into the lamps. Holes are necessary, according to Hella, for ventilation so can't be sealed off.
So, folks, my new approach is to place the shields directly over the lamp and attached, at present, with high strength double sided tape. I could only test this with a hose sprayed at various angles and no water got in. Then of course I had to take the car out for a spin to dry it off.
While I still have quite a bit of development yet to do, as well as building a bigger, better vacuum former, here are the first concept pictures of my (maybe) final design. The benefit of this design is it may fit other year cars, makes and models.
So, what d'ya think! Note; this part did not form quite as well as It should, but shows the concept.

 

[Big Red Mach 1]

That looks like a nice piece Geoff. Even though I'm in AZ and I don't take my car in the rain, I'd buy a set of those once you feel they are perfected.

 

[Sheriff41]

Yet another update and introducing a major shift in direction.
After looking at the 73's grill differences and also consulting with a member who's car has hood twist locks that posed a problem I was unaware of, I decided to rethink the entire idea.
Not to say the original design won't work in most situations, but there would need to be a separate design for twist locks and for the 73's, with or without twist locks. That is still a possibility down the road. As said, this idea was to fix a problem on my car only.
The problem with the Hella lamps and our cars, is the headlight area is open to any water that gets in through the gap between the hood and fenders. With the older sealed beam lights, this is not a problem, but with Hella lamps, there are small openings where water does get into the lamps. Holes are necessary, according to Hella, for ventilation so can't be sealed off.
So, folks, my new approach is to place the shields directly over the lamp and attached, at present, with high strength double sided tape. I could only test this with a hose sprayed at various angles and no water got in. Then of course I had to take the car out for a spin to dry it off.
While I still have quite a bit of development yet to do, as well as building a bigger, better vacuum former, here are the first concept pictures of my (maybe) final design. The benefit of this design is it may fit other year cars, makes and models.
So, what d'ya think! Note; this part did not form quite as well as It should, but shows the concept.

That's looking even better than your initial design! I'll need to see if the shape looks like it will work with my Cibie headlights.

 

[Stanglover]

That's looking even better than your initial design! I'll need to see if the shape looks like it will work with my Cibie headlights.

Thanks. The shape is very close to being the same as the original sealed beam lamps. If the Cibie ones are similar, they might be ok. Of course, right now I'm only working with Hella as a reference.

 

[Stanglover]

That looks like a nice piece Geoff. Even though I'm in AZ and I don't take my car in the rain, I'd buy a set of those once you feel they are perfected.

Thanks, I'll let you know. Stay tuned!

 

[timachone]

Nice concept! I like especially the grain on them

 

[JJU9507]

Me too

 

[Ripper679]

Man... looks great!

 

[Stanglover]

I have a request for someone with a 73 with an original grill, Mach 1 or standard.
I'm "borrowing" this picture and please excuse the crappy arrows, but I need these dimensions. I do have access to a 73 but the grill is a repop that doesn't fit very well. The owner tells me it may not be in the correct position, so I'd like to check for the water shield that fits over the top.
While I am working on a better version that will fit all Hella lamps with LED's or Halogen bulbs in 71 -73 Mustangs, I do propose to offer the original concept as well.
Thanks in advance.
Geoff.

 

[Stanglover]

BUMP!
I would really appreciate this information.
Thanks 73 owners.

 

[Idaho Chris]

BUMP!
I would really appreciate this information.
Thanks 73 owners.

Here you go Geoff





I assume you can pull the dimensions off both sides of the tape as the spacing you were looking for is just over a tape width.

Let me know if you need more "caliper taken" type accuracy.

 

[tpj71mach]

Latest update:
Well, one step forward, one step back. Today I water tested the "shield" with a hose head on sprinkle over the top of the hood and fender to replicate rain.
Clearly I overlooked the one area where water can still get in and it did, red arrow. I will remake the form with more overlap at the top front edge. The first form was basically just a try out anyway, development was expected as is typical.
Anyway, once I get this remade and buy some more ABS, I'll update again.
There was one other thought and that was to drill a 3/16" hole at the very bottom of the Hella globe. This will work as a drain, but I'm not sure about letting humidity in and fogging up the inside. If it does, I'll silicone the hole closed. I also painted the edge of the bare steel (drill hole).
The one positive was the thicker "O" ring I added to the bulb seemed to stop that from leaking when I tested that separately.
The concept is there, the refinement is yet to proven.

EDIT:
well I guess that was one step forward and TWO steps back. While putting the globe back in after drying it again, I noticed another area where water can and will get in and run down into the globe's adaptor socket, then into the globe itself. The headlight bucket's top adjuster screw bracket is pierced and formed as one piece out of the bucket, leaving a large hole. This is where water can easily enter. This means that the shield idea may not be to total answer, but I'm sure I can fix it.
I had thought about just sealing the adaptor in with RTV, but I also realize the there must be venting because even LED's create heat. That is not the answer either.

 

[tony-muscle]

Great work Geoff!

 

[Stanglover]

Here you go Geoff

View attachment 69403

View attachment 69404

I assume you can pull the dimensions off both sides of the tape as the spacing you were looking for is just over a tape width.

Let me know if you need more "caliper taken" type accuracy.

Thank you, thank you.
That is way different than my new friend's car with a repop grill. He did tell me he had one hell of a time fitting it. The dimension you show, 1 11/16th, is 2 1/4 on his car.
From your dimensions, the 73 version of the (what I'm now calling a) 'Top Cover', should fit 73's with a factory grill.
However, my latest design, once I get a new vacuum former built and a new mold finished, will fit all 71-73's. Stay tuned on this one.

 

[Idaho Chris]

...That is way different than my new friend's car with a repop grill. He did tell me he had one hell of a time fitting it. The dimension you show, 1 11/16th, is 2 1/4 on his car...

Glad to help Geoff.

I've owned my Mustang since 1975. It has never been in an accident and the grill has never been out of the car so the dimensions are within factory assembly tolerances.