PS Steering Pump Whines After Hi-ratio Upgrade

[Don C]

Because the pump provides over 600psi I was trying to come up with something that had enough pressure to force any garbage out. With a little care, like making sure the outlet hose is secure in a bucket with a splash shield so it doesn't fall out on the floor spewing fluid all over or spray out of the bucket, and making sure the reservoir doesn't run dry and fill everything full of foam, the Cardone method works.

 

[airfido]

Thanks, folks. I will let you know how it goes.

JB

 

[airfido]

Anyone have any experience with, or opinions on, the Saginaw PS “upgrade” kit?:

https://www.macsautoparts.com/1964-1973-mustang-saginaw-power-steering-pump-upgrade-small-block-ford-v8-44-75369-1.html

 

[Bentworker]

I run a Saginaw pump on my car with a 351C- using a pulley kit from March.  The kit you posted looks good- but I’d be surprised if the brackets provided fit the 351C. 

The original pumps are good, the only advantage to the Saginaw style is that flow rate and pressure changes are easier.  You just unscrew the fitting that the pressure hose connects to, and that gives you access to the regulator.  This really isn’t a feature most users would use unless they ditch their vacuum brake booster and install a hydro boost, or for whatever reason want to tune the max pressure up or down.  You might also save a pound or two with the Saginaw pump.

One last comment- it is possible to damage a pump when removing / installing pulleys- take the time to read the manual.

 

[tony-muscle]

I also run a Saginaw pump. I was able to adapt it without buying anything. I "adapted" the OEM adapter and added a support on the back. Here is my post:



Disregard the whole explanation about the pulley. As I explained later in the post, I ended up with a standard pulley. I still have an issue with lack of assist at idle so I think the valve is getting stuck. It is in my list for this winter.

 

[airfido]

UPDATE: OK, we replaced the pump with a NEW (not rebuilt) stock model https://www.macsautoparts.com/1971-1973-mustang-power-steering-pump-with-reservoir-6-cylinder-or-v8-44-851508-1.html (not the Saginaw) and even though it looked great, we replaced the pressure hose too.
Post inspection of the hose revealed unrestricted airflow. Fluid inspection revealed about a tablespoon of a very fine milky silvery substance that sank to the bottom. Not granular between the fingers.

RESULT: There is currently NO NOISE FROM THE SYSTEM. The car drives like a dream. 

THOUGHTS: I am cautiously optimistic that the pump was the problem. We will see if this holds up over time. One nagging issue is that this bad pump was just rebuilt by powersteering.com. So, I ask myself, a couple of questions:

1. Could the pump have been worn beyond repair when I sent it in?

2. What would be worn that wouLd not have been replaced in a rebuild?

3. If the pump was beyond repair, shouldn’t the shop have caught that?

4. Was it just a bad rebuild?

That rebuilt pump was noisy from the start, but got even worse over time.

SHOP NOTE: Rent the pulley tool from your local shop. The pulley came off, and went on the new pump “like butta”.

Thanks for everyone’s input. You guys are awesome.

JB

 

[Stanglover]

SOOOOO glad you finally got a good result. Congrats.

It does make one wonder how good some of these rebuild companies are. I had a bad experience with a PS box rebuilder and now I do my own. If I "F" up it's on me.

 

[SteveO_71]

I have dealt with powersteering.com in the past for a power steering box rebuild and they seemed to do nice work. These days I would guess companies would want good reputations in order to keep business coming in, over getting bad ones.

Personally I would trust a company that specifically does power steering related work as opposed to third party sales since you dont know where they get rebuilt cores or who rebuilds them. Macs advertises as "new" but are they really new? Hard to believe. I thought everything for a car 50 years old was repro now a days.

Hopefully it will continue to function as well as it does now.

I see that you did have conversations with powersteering.com when issues started. They didnt say to send the powersteering pump back to them? I would guess that if they found issues, they probably wouldnt have rebuilt it to begin with.

From their website:

NOTE:  If a unit is non-rebuildable due to damage or extreme rust, the customer is notified of their options:

• Return the unit to the customer
  
• Supply the customer with a rebuildable core unit for an additional charge.
  
• Other possibilities
  

 

[Don C]

If you just installed the rebuilt pump without flushing the hoses and box its hard telling what kind of junk may have been in there. I know it was a rebuilt box, but that doesn't mean it was clean. The silvery substance you saw is an indication of very finely ground metal, either from something worn out or a piece of debris stuck in the rotor/cam assembly. It may have been caused by a poor rebuild, not catching worn bearings or not having a clean work area. I would contact the rebuilder and tell them about the noise and finding the indication that something was wearing inside of the pump.

 

[airfido]

Good News: Powersteering.com is standing behind their work, and have offered a refund. They are going to examine the pump to see what the problem is.

JB

 

[midlife]

Good News: Powersteering.com is standing behind their work, and have offered a refund. They are going to examine the pump to see what the problem is.

JB

That's what I like to hear from ANY company: willing to stand behind their work.

 

[SteveO_71]

Good to hear! It will be interesting to find out what they find so please post their findings, if possible.

 

[Retired2014]

Same issue on my 72 Mach. Box rebuilt by PS.com, (no quick ratio install), and pump started whining. Had PS.com rebuild pump and it still whines. Marty refunded my $ for the pump rebuild and said he couldn’t help me. I’ve since installed 3 rebuilt pumps and a new (not restored) pump. All whine. Did the 25+ lock to lock wheels up and down to purge air. Also same while system under 15mm vacuum at the refill tube. Still whines. No foam, no leaks. Cold weather startup had diminished whine but whine returns when system is at operational temp. Also tried vacuum refill/purge while at op temp. No air in system at op temp pulling ATF sample from operating pump. Been at this riddle for 1.5 years now. Using new Ford ATF only. Anyone need a spare P/S pump? I have 3. 
Frustrating. May be trying a thicker oil next???

 

[Retired2014]

And I also replaced both hoses and flushed out the P/S cooler. In case you are looking for a replacement “S” tube for the P/S pump, National Parts Depot is offering a reproduction that’s perfect.

 

[Stanglover]

I could well be wrong, but there seems to be a theme here, PS.com rebuilds. As I've posted many times, I'm NOT an expert rebuilder by a long shot, but because of a bad experience with a so called pro rebuilder, I learned, with the help of a couple of our knowledgeable members and good old YouTube along with the much appreciated help of PS system rebuilder in Ohio, to do my own PS boxes. The pump was the only thing my original rebuilder did right as it runs perfectly, no whine or nasty noises. I just don't see 3 pumps all whining. 1 maybe, 2 possible, but 3 that would be shear bad luck. 

My mind keeps coming back to possible excess pressure needed to force the ATF through the PS box. The only part I can think of that might, repeat might, cause that is the check valve not installed correctly or sticking. Other than that, could it be the preloads way too high requiring more effort to turn the wheels. These are just MY thoughts on it. I just don't see so many pumps being the sole cause.

 

[Retired2014]

Where did that instruction sheet come from? Is it part of a rebuild kit?

 

[Stanglover]

Where did that instruction sheet come from? Is it part of a rebuild kit?

No, it was included with an NOS set of brass seats I got, which are like hen's teeth to find.

If you need info on extracting seats, I've posted on that before, or I can go over it again.

I stress, I have no real clue as to why all these pumps a whining like crazy, I'm merely using my "logic" and basic knowledge of the workings of PS boxes.

 

[Retired2014]

Thanks. The mystery continues...

 

[SteveO_71]

The pump was the only thing my original rebuilder did right as it runs perfectly, no whine or nasty noises. I just don't see 3 pumps all whining. 1 maybe, 2 possible, but 3 that would be shear bad luck. 

Just curious, who was your original rebuilder for the pump?

 

[Stanglover]

Just curious, who was your original rebuilder for the pump?

No-one in the US. The company is in London Ontario.