Re-visiting 3 point seat belt conversions.

[giantpune]

Thanks for clarifying your car. If you only have lap belts, then someone has removed the shoulder belts (for the front seats), which attaches to the lap belt at the slot in the tongue/tang. There is a mount up by the quarter window. You can see this if you scroll back through this thread as it is on my 71 Mach 1.

Lots of pictures posted. Look at P2, April 9 for close up of what I think you're talking about.

Is it that square looking hook?  My car has the square-ish hook still there. I always thought those were the hooks you still see in modern day cars for hanging up your suit jacket and dry cleaning.

 

[Stanglover]

Is it that square looking hook?  My car has the square-ish hook still there. I always thought those were the hooks you still see in modern day cars for hanging up your suit jacket and dry cleaning.

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Okay, now I see what you're talking about. Well it could be used as a coat hook! If there is not one located as in pic, I suspect it would be for storing the shoulder belt. There was a "deluxe" belt system that could be ordered, but I've never seen one, or there is obviously a design change between 71 and 73. 

On my 71 you can see the hook location and the different tang on the lap belt retractor.

 

[timachone]

Interesting thread for sure, Geoff. I have the original 3 point belts on the car and although I have a ginger deluxe interor all is ginger but the belts. But that's not the point. Your safety points are true and I will keep an eye on this theme after I put together the car and it's running fine. Your solutions are great and keep the original look, I like it  :thumb:

So I do not want to highjack your thread but as I read through I had something in mind... My car in his former assembled state it had these hangers / hooks, too: 

https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/d1zz-6561280.html

I thought, they were original to the car for keeping the belts from hanging too low. Aren't they? 

 

[Don C]

They are for stowing the shoulder belt when it's not in use.

 

[timachone]

Thanks, Don. Are they an original accessoire to our cars? 

And one more question: 

If I have a Mach 1 with Deluxe interior could I have had color matched belts? 

My car is all ginger deluxe interior originally but has black belts... All other stuff is ginger. 

 

[Stanglover]

Interesting thread for sure, Geoff. I have the original 3 point belts on the car and although I have a ginger deluxe interor all is ginger but the belts. But that's not the point. Your safety points are true and I will keep an eye on this theme after I put together the car and it's running fine. Your solutions are great and keep the original look, I like it  :thumb:

So I do not want to highjack your thread but as I read through I had something in mind... My car in his former assembled state it had these hangers / hooks, too: 

https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/d1zz-6561280.html

I thought, they were original to the car for keeping the belts from hanging too low. Aren't they? 

Yes Tim, that's the spring wire thingy I mentioned as I have no idea what they were actually called. There used to be a loop of some sort of tape material stitched on the belt which may have been intended to be held by the spring thingy. Honestly, I don't remember exactly how it was supposed to be, mine were all long gone.

By the way, no hijacking here, all good. All this info helps others, which of course is the intent.

 

[Stanglover]

Thanks, Don. Are they an original accessoire to our cars? 

And one more question: 

If I have a Mach 1 with Deluxe interior could I have had color matched belts? 

My car is all ginger deluxe interior originally but has black belts... All other stuff is ginger. 

  bdennis posted on his ginger car early on in this thread and pictured his belts, which are a bit of a mystery as they seem to be all different. I actually don't know if ginger belts were available. I'm sure someone knows.

 

[Stanglover]

NOTE: I added a couple of pics to Bentworker's post above, P3 to show the VW belt tongue/tang thingy and the little button to stop the thingy falling to far down. This is what the aftermarket manufacturers ought to be offering instead of the grip type thingy.

 

[tony-muscle]

NOTE: I added a couple of pics to Bentworker's post above, P3 to show the VW belt tongue/tang thingy and the little button to stop the thingy falling to far down. This is what the aftermarket manufacturers ought to be offering instead of the grip type thingy.

If you notice in our "new" seatbelt buckle, there is a sliding lock mechanism that locks the buckle position to the belt. If we can wedge this mechanism and force it to stay unlock it will allow the buckle to move up and down. I think it will still offer some resistance so it won't fall all the way to the floor but it may be enough to allow the belt to fully retract. I need to study it and compare to newer cars. I wonder why they are using this old mechanism.

 

[Stanglover]

If you notice in our "new" seatbelt buckle, there is a sliding lock mechanism that locks the buckle position to the belt. If we can wedge this mechanism and force it to stay unlock it will allow the buckle to move up and down. I think it will still offer some resistance so it won't fall all the way to the floor but it may be enough to allow the belt to fully retract. I need to study it and compare to newer cars. I wonder why they are using this old mechanism.

A good point Tony. Indeed they are behind the times on this, but they probably have thousands in stock to use up. Good point on "fixing it" so it slides easier. I notice that Seatbelt Planet had the webbing "buttons" in their accessories listing. I assume they are in two pieces and the first part would just push through from one side, secured by the second part. Might be worth looking at. I find the belts way better overall, so no complaints in that regard, but for me, just harder to get hold of and pull in one easy movement across my shoulder. I have no plans on changing them....... yet.

 

[Bentworker]

I got ahold of seatbelt planet and was able to talk them into a semi-custom version of the DF13 belts with an extended sash.  Once they show up I will update.

 

[Hemikiller]

My wife bought me a set of three point belts last year. I had fitted them up and had a similar issue as others, with the way the anchor sits, the direction of the male latch piece, and them not retracting fully. 

I was able to extend the belt fully from the retractor, lock the retractor in place, remove the belt and spin it 180°. I had to slide it through the sash and reverse that as well. Easy peasy - that solved the nesting issue and the latch now faces outward. 

The anchor plate is now bent towards the door at say a 45° angle. Not a huge issue, it doesn't touch the door, but a flat plate would be better. I may bring them to work and tweak them in the press brake, but I don't want to damage the powdercoat. 

The belt not retracting fully bothers me, looks like saggy pants. On my retractor, there is a plastic snap-in trim plate. If I remove it, the belt retracts more, but now it's exposed. Current plan is to see if the retractor will fit into the 71 mechanism "boot".  Worst case, I'll use the 72-73 molded plastic unit which is much larger. 

 

[Stanglover]

My wife bought me a set of three point belts last year. I had fitted them up and had a similar issue as others, with the way the anchor sits, the direction of the male latch piece, and them not retracting fully. 

I was able to extend the belt fully from the retractor, lock the retractor in place, remove the belt and spin it 180°. I had to slide it through the sash and reverse that as well. Easy peasy - that solved the nesting issue and the latch now faces outward. 

The anchor plate is now bent towards the door at say a 45° angle. Not a huge issue, it doesn't touch the door, but a flat plate would be better. I may bring them to work and tweak them in the press brake, but I don't want to damage the powdercoat. 

The belt not retracting fully bothers me, looks like saggy pants. On my retractor, there is a plastic snap-in trim plate. If I remove it, the belt retracts more, but now it's exposed. Current plan is to see if the retractor will fit into the 71 mechanism "boot".  Worst case, I'll use the 72-73 molded plastic unit which is much larger. 

That sort of sounds like the main issue I had with a set of belts I bought from NPD a couple or so years ago. That if I remember, was the start of this thread before the "revisiting" bit was added. Apart from they were the lift latch style, I found out after the fact that I was apparently sold belts for a vert, not a fastback. In my original post, there was a huge problem with a 180 deg. twist in the shoulder belt and yes, I was able to remove that, but the anchor bar (know as a "C" bar by seatbelt solutions) had that 45 deg. bend facing the door and that for me was unacceptable, so I returned the belts.

The belts I/we now have, leave a lot to be desired, but are way better and safer (I hope) than the 50 year old factory belts. If I was really picky, I could have had those restored, but why?

 

[Hemikiller]

That sort of sounds like the main issue I had with a set of belts I bought from NPD a couple or so years ago. That if I remember, was the start of this thread before the "revisiting" bit was added. Apart from they were the lift latch style, I found out after the fact that I was apparently sold belts for a vert, not a fastback. In my original post, there was a huge problem with a 180 deg. twist in the shoulder belt and yes, I was able to remove that, but the anchor bar (know as a "C" bar by seatbelt solutions) had that 45 deg. bend facing the door and that for me was unacceptable, so I returned the belts.

The belts I/we now have, leave a lot to be desired, but are way better and safer (I hope) than the 50 year old factory belts. If I was really picky, I could have had those restored, but why?

Mine came from Seatbelt Solutions, probably the same thing NPD sells. I took them apart again tonight, and spun the anchor/ C bar around, so now the bend faces inward, and it falls naturally behind the retractor. Popped the original mechanism out of the boot, gave it a good cleaning, warmed it with a heat gun and the new retractor popped right in like it belonged there. Put it all back together and they fit and work nicely. The boots that came with the kit for the sash and inner belt are hideous, so I left them off. I may end up eliminating the roof sash extension, as it might fall too low in my shoulder. 

 

[Stanglover]

Mine came from Seatbelt Solutions, probably the same thing NPD sells. I took them apart again tonight, and spun the anchor/ C bar around, so now the bend faces inward, and it falls naturally behind the retractor. Popped the original mechanism out of the boot, gave it a good cleaning, warmed it with a heat gun and the new retractor popped right in like it belonged there. Put it all back together and they fit and work nicely. The boots that came with the kit for the sash and inner belt are hideous, so I left them off. I may end up eliminating the roof sash extension, as it might fall too low in my shoulder. 

Hemikiller, NPD also sell Retro Belt by name and "other" which are probably Seatbelt Solutions as you say. When I got mine, I thought I was buying from WescoPerformance in Ca, but they turned out to be just a distributor for S/S. What gets me is, looking at all of them, they all look the same, same parts, buckles etc., so who does actually make them? I suspect now, they all buy the same components and just add the webbing to make their own version of the same thing.

I don't understand why the need to re-install the old retractor boots. I had no problems with that. Besides, one of my old ones is broken and not repairable.

I did NOT get a boot for the sash and you're right, the inner belt sleeve is nowhere near a fit for our cars, that's why I bought the 6" cover from Seatbelt Planet and that seems to work ok, but not perfect. As for the drop sash, if you look back at my ugly pic, you can see exactly where it sits. For me it's much better than before.

For others considering buying 3 point belts, make SURE you buy with the LONG "C" bar if you're retro-fitting. None of these conversion type sets are perfect, not even the ones that are supposed to be for "our" car years. Do your research!!!! Ask questions.

 

[Mach1s]

Funny as I just replaced my factory erector set type today with some I purchased from Summit Racing for 126.99 (pair) for the RetroBelt RB-6573MUSTKT-BL. I wanted to put some shoulder belts in a 67 F100 I am doing and ordered these. I liked them and the "Retro" type buckle that I decided to put them in my 71 and they seem to be working great.

 

[Stanglover]

Funny as I just replaced my factory erector set type today with some I purchased from Summit Racing for 126.99 (pair) for the RetroBelt RB-6573MUSTKT-BL. I wanted to put some shoulder belts in a 67 F100 I am doing and ordered these. I liked them and the "Retro" type buckle that I decided to put them in my 71 and they seem to be working great.

View attachment 51365

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View attachment 51367

Interesting. Apart from the lift latch style, the shoulder belt part looks like it has a free sliding tang,  held and adjusted by a thinga-m-jig!! (can't think of what it's called). The shoulder retractor belt certainly looks neater. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Mach1s]

They come with a slide adjuster to hold the male buckle up so you don't have to search for it. They have the "Oshit" stop as well. They seem to be GREAT to $125.00. I ordered another set for my 67 F100 this morning and if I can figure out a good spot for the back seat I will order another set for that.

 

[Stanglover]

They come with a slide adjuster to hold the male buckle up so you don't have to search for it. They have the "Oshit" stop as well. They seem to be GREAT to $125.00. I ordered another set for my 67 F100 this morning and if I can figure out a good spot for the back seat I will order another set for that.

Slide adjuster = thinga-m-jig, That's what it's called!

Good info and input for the thread. Thanks.

 

[Hemikiller]

Hemikiller, NPD also sell Retro Belt by name and "other" which are probably Seatbelt Solutions as you say. When I got mine, I thought I was buying from WescoPerformance in Ca, but they turned out to be just a distributor for S/S. What gets me is, looking at all of them, they all look the same, same parts, buckles etc., so who does actually make them? I suspect now, they all buy the same components and just add the webbing to make their own version of the same thing.

I don't understand why the need to re-install the old retractor boots. I had no problems with that. Besides, one of my old ones is broken and not repairable.

I did NOT get a boot for the sash and you're right, the inner belt sleeve is nowhere near a fit for our cars, that's why I bought the 6" cover from Seatbelt Planet and that seems to work ok, but not perfect. As for the drop sash, if you look back at my ugly pic, you can see exactly where it sits. For me it's much better than before.

For others considering buying 3 point belts, make SURE you buy with the LONG "C" bar if you're retro-fitting. None of these conversion type sets are perfect, not even the ones that are supposed to be for "our" car years. Do your research!!!! Ask questions.

I added the boots for looks, and to keep anything from falling into the mechanism. The plastic snap-on mechanism shield had to be removed to allow the belt to retract fully. 

I'm 6'3", so my shoulder sits high enough that the belt may sit too low with the sash. Once I get the 351 swap completed and the car is driveable, I'll make a decision on that.

The best part of this swap is not having to unhook the shoulder belt to release the E-brake!