Rear Seal Leak?

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Joined
Jan 13, 2012
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Location
Washington
My Car
1971 Mach1, 351 Cleveland, Ram Air (not factory), C6 Automatic, AM/8 Track, Bright Red.
I suspect this is a rear seal leak, here are some pics. If it is a rear seal how big a deal is it to change one? Doesn't appear to be a brake fluid leak.

Jim

1wheel.jpg2Wheel.jpg3Wheel.jpg4Wheel.jpg5Wheel.jpg

 
It mite be....I never tried to replace one yet...I watched a few...But usualy they did bearing and everything...So they used pullies and had to heat up the rear end and stuff to get the bearing out...I took mine to my local mustang restore guy..He did it for 90 bucks...replaced the bearing and seal and everything...But that was years ago...Only good thing about taking it too les shawb...Is they stand behind the work if it starts too leak again...If you do it..Its all on you if it starts leaking again...Sometimes its worth taking it in..If you trust the shop and they stand behind it.

 
It mite be....I never tried to replace one yet...I watched a few...But usualy they did bearing and everything...So they used pullies and had to heat up the rear end and stuff to get the bearing out...I took mine to my local mustang restore guy..He did it for 90 bucks...replaced the bearing and seal and everything...But that was years ago...Only good thing about taking it too les shawb...Is they stand behind the work if it starts too leak again...If you do it..Its all on you if it starts leaking again...Sometimes its worth taking it in..If you trust the shop and they stand behind it.
Thanks, I did some checking apparently the seal and bearings come as one unit and are replaced at the same time on the 71. Based upon your input I called Les Shwab and they'll replace the seal/bearings for $160.00 that includes brake inspection/bleeding the brakes (which apparently has to be done when they pull everything) plus top off the fluid in the rear end. Sounds like the route to take.

 
Not a hard job to replace the bearing/seal

remove the 4 nuts behind the axle, (your socket will go through the hole in the end of the axle)

no need to remove the backing plate or brake shoes

use a slide hammer axle puller to jerk the axle out

take that and the new bearing to the machine shop and have the old one pressed off and the new one pressed on.

 
It cold be the axle seal that is inside the axle housing tube. Looks like this. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NOS13700_0067653515

The bearing seal is integral to the sealed axle bearing which is pressed onto the axle and held in place with a steel retainer ring that is also pressed on. If the bearing is not making any noise it is like good. Just a thought. Chuck

 
It cold be the axle seal that is inside the axle housing tube. Looks like this. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NOS13700_0067653515

The bearing seal is integral to the sealed axle bearing which is pressed onto the axle and held in place with a steel retainer ring that is also pressed on. If the bearing is not making any noise it is like good. Just a thought. Chuck
Chuck,

The bearing isn't making any noise, not sure I'm understanding correctly, are you saying there's another seal besides the one integral to the bearing?

Jim

 
replacing the seals is pretty easy. It is a little involved.

you will need to take the axle out of that side.

there are 4 bolts that hold the brake backing plate to the axle flange. you don't have to take apart the drum brakes setup but it does help if you do.....

jack up the car in such a way that the side you are working on is raised compared to the other 3 wheels, this is to keep diff fluid from pouring out.( no worries if it does you can refill it with the plug on the drivers side near the yoke.)

other wise prepare a way to hang the drum brake like a wire hanger or something to hold it. release the 4 main bolts on the backing plate then the axle can come out with its holding plate, the drum brake will have no support now so you need to hold it up somehow so the brake line doesn't get damaged. try to move the brake away from the axle because the seal is right inside the axle tube and the brake will get in the way.

slide the axle out you may need a sliding hammer to pop it loose or tap it with a rubber mallet to get it out. a good trick is you install the drum brake cover backwards on the axle hub and put 2 nuts back on for the wheel, then use the drum brake as a slide hammer on the axle hub studs.

with the axle out inspect the shaft. if you find a gouge where the seal sits, start thinking about axle replacement.

inspect the axle shaft splines that go into the diff, look for damage, if the splines are deformed, new axle.

so the axle shaft looks ok, replace the seal. take note of how the seal sits and its direction of installation, take a big flat head screw driver and pry the old seal out, careful do not damage the axle housing. it will be stubborn but come out. take any notes about part numbers that are on the ring, there are different ID and OD numbers on the seals, you need to match it.

get new seal and install it with a seal installer or something large enough to sit on the ring of the seal that you can hammer on and not damage the seal.

carefully knock the seal into place making sure its straight.... now if you find a light gouge on the axle shaft you can sort of control how deep the seal sits inside the axle housing so if you leave it a little out of being fully seated then it may plug a small leak.

some guys coat the outside of the seal with sealer to get more of a seal with the axle housing if there is a problem, the seal has a coating on it that is red and it acts like a sealant when you pound the new seal in, i didn't use any sealer when i did mine.

once the seal is in. take your finger and get some diff oil and spread it on the seal, put some diff fluid on the axle shaft. Don't forget to change the flange Seal also. there is a shaped flat seal that goes to the backing plate.

Now carefully install the axle shaft back in. make sure the drum brake is lined up. Carefully keep the axle shaft centered in the seal as the axle goes in. do not drop the axle on to the seal hard it can damage the spring that is part of the seal, just be careful it has a tolerance you don't want to upset. so keep the axle centered and get it into the diff and make sure it seats 100% holding the axle up and straight start installing the bolts get all 4 bolts in and then torque to spec (i have to look up the torque specs in the manual i can't remember them off hand)

once everything is together you can check the diff fluid level. level the car out on the jack stands, and open the fill plug on the drivers side of the rear pumpkin. you want the fluid to be just at the bottom of the fill plug hole.

if its low you can put some diff oil in.

also now is the time to inspect the axle air vent. on the drivers side by the brake block on the axle is a fitting with a rubber hose that goes up into the chassis rail.

pull it out and change the hose to a new one, inspect the old one for clogs, spiders love to clog up the air vent and you need it to stop pressure build up inside the axle housing.

inspect the fitting on the axle as well, make sure its not clogged. you can take a new hose and blow through it attached to the fitting to make sure its moving air.

then just tuck the hose back up into the chassis rail like the old one was. A bad air vent on the rear axle can cause leaks due to pressure build up.

 
It cold be the axle seal that is inside the axle housing tube. Looks like this. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NOS13700_0067653515

The bearing seal is integral to the sealed axle bearing which is pressed onto the axle and held in place with a steel retainer ring that is also pressed on. If the bearing is not making any noise it is like good. Just a thought. Chuck
Chuck,

The bearing isn't making any noise, not sure I'm understanding correctly, are you saying there's another seal besides the one integral to the bearing?

Jim
Yes. In the axle tube inboard of the sealed bearing and retainer ring. Chuck

 
You guys are awsome. You spend the time sharing your knowledge and providing advice which really helps shade tree mechanics like me.

I learned enough that I decided to pony up and let Les Schwab do the repairs, the thought of getting it apart and not being able to remove the seal and bearings due to being frozen in there wasn't appealing. Took it in this morning, the guy was obviously knowledgable, asked if had a 28 spline axle or a 31, different seals are used on the two, of course I had no clue. Turns out it's a 31 spline axel.

He determined the leak was the axle tube seal mentioned by Chuck. He replaced the seal checked the rear end fluid level and had me back on the road in a little over 30 minutes. Although the estimate was $160.00(worse case), he only charged $83.00 because nothing was frozen and everything was easy to remove. He said the old seal was shot and reason for the leak, 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty if his repair fails.

I do plan on checking the rearend's air vent hose this weekend. I wasn't aware it was there to stop pressure build up inside the axle housing, it very well could be stopped up. That's something I bet the majority of our members never thought of checking.

Thanks again guys.

Jim

 
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this is from when i did mine

100_2907.jpg


new axle bearings

100_2834.jpg


and cleaned up the axles

100_2835.jpg



hey glad you got it fixed :D

 
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Totalled makes a good point. Next time you are under the car look to see if there is a large "N" cast on the center section housing at the top. Also look to see if the small thin steel tag is there. The car should not have come with a 31 spline differential. But who knows? Or it could have been upgraded by a previous owner. Either way it is a plus in my opinion. Chuck

 
You have 31 spline axles...? Okay, your car is an oddball.
I had no clue what the difference between the 28 and 31 spline was, the tech at Les Schwab said it's a 31 spline after examining it, I hope he's right because he put a 9363S seal on it which is for a 31 spline axle, the proper seal for a 28 would have been a 9569S axle seal according to a quick google search...not sure what the difference is.

Jim

 
Look at the end of the axle in the center. 31 spline will not have an oblong indented area in the center with a round mark. It will look like the picture in this sight toward the bottom. In case there was anything else you wanted to know!

http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm

 
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Totalled makes a good point. Next time you are under the car look to see if there is a large "N" cast on the center section housing at the top. Also look to see if the small thin steel tag is there. ...
OK crawled under the car just now and took a couple of pictures. I couldn't get a few of the center section at the top since there is no room but did get a pic of the tag (after cleaning the grease and dirt off best I could) plus found out the pinion support is stamped C5AW-4668-A. Also saw a stamp "DIF" on the casing, I then got claustrophobic and crawled out from under it.

Jim

Rearend Tag.jpgRearend1.jpgRearend2.jpg

 
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Hmmm interesting

Your pinion housing number C5AW 4668-A = 1965 Full size Ford from Drivetrain Group; Pinion support (p/n 4668) changed 1 time (A)

Also some good info

http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm
The more I learn about the car, the less I know.

Jim

 

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