The Great Debate - NOS, Restored or Reproduction?

[PoFoMoCo]

Today a friend and I have been messaging back-n-forth about a couple of posts I've made about restoring an original part or praising another member about how good their restored part looks, when a new or reproduction part might look fresher or less "weathered". Aside from the shear joy of making a used part look good, sometimes a brand new or NOS part just doesn't look right.

Specifically, he thought it was ridiculous that I commented on a pair of NOS hood locks were too nice for my convertible. He really, honestly laughed out loud and he enjoyed taking a couple of shots at me at my expense... all in good fun.

So, that evolved into a discussion about what I feel is a quirky part of this hobby. When is it appropriate or necessary to "keep" a used/refreshed/restored part and when must/should you replace a part with a nice NOS or reproduction piece. And, for discussion sake, I'm not talking about survivors, or uber rare part(s) or 1 of 1 cars with history and lineage. I'm talking about a nicely restored #2 car that is owned and driven by the majority of us.

For me, a moving part or one that is touched, turned, rubbed, handled, opened, pushed/pulled on, etc. is acceptable to have some age or patina as long as its clean, refreshed and functional. For instance, foot pedals, radio knobs, door handles, steering wheels, gas caps, wheels, hood locks & latches, etc. On the flip, there are parts that should not show wear & tear and look better as NOS or reproduction parts. For instance, under hood & dress-up parts, windshield trim, chrome/bright moldings, fender emblems, drip rails, bumpers, bumper guards, other bright work, etc.

And then there are the "main" components that are always in the mix like paint, carpet, upholstery seat & interior trim. After safety and mechanicals, I'll put money into these things. I'm curious what you guys think?

 

[Spike Morelli]

Personally, I like my vehicles to look as good as they can, and work properly. I don't believe in "patina". I relate the word "patina" to "worn, or poorly maintained".I have replaced some chrome pieces with another new piece, just because it looks fresher. My biggest bitch with new repro parts is when they don't fit, or work properly. I consider that false advertising, and bad "Repro" parts have haunted me since my first car ( a Model A Ford ), and continues to be an issue . I've had my Mach 1 for 32 years, painted it twice ( original color ), had three interiors in it ( original replacement color and style ), kids wreaked havoc upon it , changed out everything on the suspension, re-built the engine and trans. At this point, it's fair to say the pieces I haven't touched on the car from when I first got it are the side and rear window glass, tail lights and rear panel/ gas cap. If you use your car and have it past a given number of years, you will need to replace things, it's just how it is.
They taught us in Aircraft Maintenence Training that we are expected to "return any repairs to it's original, certified, factory condition", corrosion control being an understood big part of it. I guess that's why I look at fixing my car in the way I do. That's just me. If I could go back in time, I'd go back to the first day the car was parked in the Dealership. ( In my case, Russ Davis Ford, in Covina, Calif. )
They don't make these cars anymore. A good portion of guys love to modify their cars. That's fine really. It makes them happy. I like mine how it originally was. It makes me happy. One guy cares about the details, the other doesn't. For me, generally, NOS whenever possible, referbish when good replacements aren't available, and repro when I have to.

 

[c9zx]

My first choice is refurbished parts that can be saved and look good and meet the quality goals for the car. Many interior bits can not be saved, so quality reproduction parts used there. I use NOS only when it is the only viable option. NOS many times doesn't mean perfect, it is OLD stock. I might look at it differently if I was restoring a $200,000+ car. The most expensive cars I've restored are a couple of 1969 GT-350s. But that was in the late 1990s when they brought 35-45K. Chuck

 

[Stanglover]

This is an interesting read.
As we all know from experience, most repop parts are nowhere near the quality of the originals, but sometimes we have no choice but to use them.
Personally, I tried to refresh as much as possible, but as my car had already seen some "updates and changes", going totally back to the original boring "plane Jane" Mach 1 it once was, wasn't an option for me.
The one repop replacement part on my car I decided I couldn't live with, was the rear bumper. At some point in the cars life, I think it had been backed into a post or something. At the time I had the car repainted, there was evidence of minor damage at the back right corner, so I'm sure the bumper was bent beyond repair and replaced. I finally found a NOS bumper on here, bought it and now the car looks much better.

 

[Mac]

Originality is a double edge sword; for example all 351-2V cars came with a single exhaust. Just wondering how many owners of original cars kept them "as factory delivered", therefore no dual exhausts, no style steel wheels (hub caps), blacked out hoods, etc.

 

[Rozz]

I only use original parts on my cars, unless they cannot be found. it's like fake ****s they may look better but they just don't feel the same.

 

[Spike Morelli]

You know what they say though,.....Cobras are like ****s...even the fake ones are pretty bitchin'.....

 

[Spike Morelli]

Originality is a double edge sword; for example all 351-2V cars came with a single exhaust. Just wondering how many owners of original cars kept them "as factory delivered", therefore no dual exhausts, no style steel wheels (hub caps), blacked out hoods, etc.

Mustang owners are the least of the offenders in this catagory. Attend ANY car show, you will find a large percentage of participants are Chevrolets. I would venture to say that you could go to shows all summer, and not find ONE original '55-'57 Chevy, or any original Chevelles, Novas, Pick-ups, El Caminos, and I believe ( to Chevy owners ) it is against all that is holy to restore a Camaro back to Factory Original, judging by what you'll see. There's big blocks and LS series motors in EVERYTHING! Just selfish carnage on a larger scale than we do. No, Mustang vintage owners aren't saints, as far as originality goes, but we represent closer to the mark than the Bowtie Boys do.

 

[351c1971]

Tips to enjoy your Mustang:
1. Build it the way you want it.
2. Enjoy driving it until the wheels fall off.
3. Understand that driving it like you stole it relieves stress.
4. Don't give a s..t about what others think it should/could be.

This might not work for everyone, but it sure works for me.

 

[Spike Morelli]

I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with Tip #1 and #4. God forbid the "wheels fall off", or anything else for that matter, that wouldn't bode well as to any mechanical skills I may profess to own, and personally, I've found touring gracefully in total control, up Pacific Coast Highway along the ocean going up to Monterey for the weekend , windows down, quite the de-stressing way to go.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Mustang owners are the least of the offenders in this catagory. Attend ANY car show, you will find a large percentage of participants are Chevrolets. I would venture to say that you could go to shows all summer, and not find ONE original '55-'57 Chevy, or any original Chevelles, Novas, Pick-ups, El Caminos, and I believe ( to Chevy owners ) it is against all that is holy to restore a Camaro back to Factory Original, judging by what you'll see. There's big blocks and LS series motors in EVERYTHING! Just selfish carnage on a larger scale than we do. No, Mustang vintage owners aren't saints, as far as originality goes, but we represent closer to the mark than the Bowtie Boys do.

Chevrolet products get a big BOOOOOOO!!! from me. I am so sick of the seemingly endless numbers of 32 Fords with the ubiquitous "small block 350/turbo 350 trans and a Ford 9" set ups. It is so very run of the mill. It is the twisted holy grail of the hot rodding World. I won't even get started bitching about LS swaps. Happy new year! . We hope.

Ron

 

[351c1971]

#2 was not meant to be taken literally and might be a bit of a local term. It implies that you will be keeping your Mustang and not flipping it. 50+ year old cars definitely require more attention to maintenance to be driven on the street.

 

[Stanglover]

Chevrolet products get a big BOOOOOOO!!! from me. I am so sick of the seemingly endless numbers of 32 Fords with the ubiquitous "small block 350/turbo 350 trans and a Ford 9" set ups. It is so very run of the mill. It is the twisted holy grail of the hot rodding World. I won't even get started bitching about LS swaps. Happy new year! . We hope.

Ron

Ron, it funny you say that about 32 Fords with small block Chevy motors in them.
I have a very good buddy who owns a 75 Corvette vert (and a 2021 C8). We spend quite a lot of time going to shows together, but whenever I see one of these 'monstrosities', he's right there to rib me over it. All in fun of course, but he knows how much I hate to see this abortion. The only positive I can offer is the Chevy motor, with its rear mounted distributor, packages better, meaning the plug wires can be routed to look better.
Another friend who we go to shows with, has a 32 Ford (plastic body of course) Ford with a 350 Chev motor. The only saving grace is he bought it from the family of another of our friends who passed away. He bought it to honor Jerry.
Even worse, I saw a Mach 1 at a show once that had a Chevy motor in it. The owner said he couldn't find a Cleveland motor anywhere, but Chev motors are ten a penny! Cleveland motors are very hard to find in my neck of Ontario.

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Ron, it funny you say that about 32 Fords with small block Chevy motors in them.
I have a very good buddy who owns a 75 Corvette vert (and a 2021 C8). We spend quite a lot of time going to shows together, but whenever I see one of these 'monstrosities', he's right there to rib me over it. All in fun of course, but he knows how much I hate to see this abortion. The only positive I can offer is the Chevy motor, with its rear mounted distributor, packages better, meaning the plug wires can be routed to look better.
Another friend who we go to shows with, has a 32 Ford (plastic body of course) Ford with a 350 Chev motor. The only saving grace is he bought it from the family of another of our friends who passed away. He bought it to honor Jerry.
Even worse, I saw a Mach 1 at a show once that had a Chevy motor in it. The owner said he couldn't find a Cleveland motor anywhere, but Chev motors are ten a penny! Cleveland motors are very hard to find in my neck of Ontario.

I guess I was being a little harsh. I have to admit a very good friend of mine who was also friends with my Dad owns a perfect 32 with of course, a Chevy powertrain. I have done a lot of work on it over the years and it has won best in show a million times. The car has the most mint and expensive paint job I have ever seen. He knew my father and mother when they bought my Mustang new and busts my balls all the time that I should get it repainted. His car has resulted in me taking care of other hot rods from his circle of friends. All with Chevy engines. At least the other 2 cars that I work on are actually Chevys which I am fine with. Like you said those small blocks are everywhere and cheap as well as the parts. I still would take a Cleveland even if it is more challenging and expensive to support. I can't believe someone put a Chevy small block in a Mach! That is just sick. That must have been a fun install. You would think he would have just got a Windsor. There are plenty of those out there and the plant is in Canada. Lol.
Happy new year.
Ron

 

[MikeGriese]

After 50 years, there aren't many NOS parts that can be used without being refurbished. From a personal perspective, I want my car to be as original as possible, within reason. I am building a car that Ford never produced, but my goal it to make it look like they did. I have no schedule and the budget was broken years ago. Part of the reason it is taking so long is that good, refinishable OEM (NOS or otherwise) parts have been a challenge to find. I've actually done some parts 2 or three times as I have used what was available until something better came along (like headlight buckets...). I'm getting pretty good at removing rust without damaging tool marks, but still haven't figured out how to deal with pitted sheet metal.

That said, I would never install an NOS part that contains rubber in a critical application - like suspension bushes, seals and hoses. The car will be driven in the manner for which it was created, and 50 year old rubber should scare the gear oil out of anyone. I will also use high quality, concours level reproduction parts when available. If I can't find acceptable reproductionor reusable OEM parts, I wait.

 

[Rozz]

I agree with using repo gaskets on the engine and suspension but, when it comes to door and window seals i would still prefer originals. When it comes to the chevy motors in our fords the only reason i can come up with is because so many of these parts interchange and not everyone can build a ford to run correctly.

 

[Bobby]

When driving modern cars or trucks, I always use OEM parts as the aftermarket parts usually wont work or if they do, they wont last. When replacing my braking system on my 72 Mach 1, the power booster disintrigrated when I removed it. There is no way I would use a NOS on a safety item like that. I managed a repro booster and master cylinder combo and have had zero issues. On the other hand, when I replaced my instrumentation (the tach, even though rebuilt, would only work intermittently and the alternator gauge had an internal short.) which also included the fuel gauge. Getting the wiring correct was a time consuming effort but it worked......except for the fuel gauge. The Autometer fuel gauge worked properly when the tank was full and when near empty but was all over the place in between. I contacted Autometer tech support and was informed that if I used an aftermarket sender on the gas tank, then the resistance values from the sender would not be compatible with the gauge. I would have to send it in to be modified to get it to work. A $25 charge and a face that was different than the tach and speedo gauge. If I could find an OEM sender, then no mods and changes were necessary. I actually found an NOS OEM sender on eBay actually in very close proximity to home. It was a whopping $300 for the sender. I asked the seller if he would entertain any offers since it had been listed for several weeks. His lack of reply told me no. So I bit the bullet and purchased it. I installed it and true to their word, the gauge worked perfectly after that. I would dearly love to pay more reasonable prices for OEM parts but sometime you have no choice. I sure didnt want to have to take the dash apart again and remove the fuel gauge for a mod.

 

[Stanglover]

I guess I was being a little harsh. I have to admit a very good friend of mine who was also friends with my Dad owns a perfect 32 with of course, a Chevy powertrain. I have done a lot of work on it over the years and it has won best in show a million times. The car has the most mint and expensive paint job I have ever seen. He knew my father and mother when they bought my Mustang new and busts my balls all the time that I should get it repainted. His car has resulted in me taking care of other hot rods from his circle of friends. All with Chevy engines. At least the other 2 cars that I work on are actually Chevys which I am fine with. Like you said those small blocks are everywhere and cheap as well as the parts. I still would take a Cleveland even if it is more challenging and expensive to support. I can't believe someone put a Chevy small block in a Mach! That is just sick. That must have been a fun install. You would think he would have just got a Windsor. There are plenty of those out there and the plant is in Canada. Lol.
Happy new year.
Ron

Well Ron, what it comes down to at the end of the day, it's a hobby, our hobby and we should all take it in stride. I always say "If you can't take a bit of ribbing or a joke, you'd better find another hobby". Those who just blow up at someone who's car is "not correct" or "not concours", can go piss up their kilt and play with the steam!!
Yeah I had a hard time dealing with the guy who put a Chevy motor in a Mach, but I bit my tongue and let him get on with it. It was his car after all, not mine.

 

[Bill Perkins]

The Old saying is anybody can drive a Chevrolet but it takes a real man to drive a FORD

 

[Ron Tanzi]

Well Ron, what it comes down to at the end of the day, it's a hobby, our hobby and we should all take it in stride. I always say "If you can't take a bit of ribbing or a joke, you'd better find another hobby". Those who just blow up at someone who's car is "not correct" or "not concours", can go piss up there kilt and play with the steam!!
Yeah I had a hard time dealing with the guy who put a Chevy motor in a Mach, but I bit my tongue and let him get on with it. It was his car after all, not mine.

Live and let live. I agree. Life is too short.

Ron