Jump to content

351 Cleveland thermostat restrictor


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Interesting - so, blocking off the bypass completely (well, aside from the 5mm pinhole) and using a Windsor style thermostat will have the same effect as a proper Cleveland set-up.

 

Can you explain that? Since the coolant will be flowing in "bypass, thermostat open" mode regardless of whether the thermostat is actually open, how will this help with cooling? (Seriously, I'm at a loss here).

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

if you are interested

page #3 shows the conversion above.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/attachment.php?aid=30013

 

"West Coast Classic Cougar (WCCC) offers an alternative, that grew out of Pantera owners

seeking a way to keep their cars running cooler, as overheating was an ongoing problem with

those cars. Someone discovered that by soldering a penny in the opening of the restrictor/bypass

plate he could use a Windsor thermostat and seemingly solved the overheating problems.

WCCC designed and produced a solid restrictor plate that requires the use of a Windsor style

thermostat. It does have a small hole in the middle of it to provide a way for trapped air to

escape:"

Link to post
Share on other sites

.

yes, the problem is not the concept of the cleveland system . . the problem is the design and parts used . . this system did not seal all the time when it was new which is why guys were changing it on new cars . . there are some cars that have the clevo system and theirs work just fine, but if you get rid of it, you 100% eliminate it as a potential cause of overheating.

 

the problem is that you can not actually see the system in operation so there is really no way to tell if it is sealing or not . . if you install the block off plate, it will seal.

 

if you have an aftermarket water pump that does not have the bypass, you should drill the bypass hole in it if you use the block off plate.

 

also, you can drill three 1/8" holes in the perimeter of your thermostat if you use the plate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys - I should've done the 'search' for this information, as while I was posting this I knew it had already been covered.

 

Mine's been weird. When I had nothing on the front end of the car (no fenders, hood, grille, none of the under hood accessories and components in-place, etc.) it ran cool as a cucumber during initial break-in with me lighting it up with my laser thermometer. Seems like once I got the car all back together in the driveway (with the temp gauge working), everything seemed fine with the gauge not creeping up past about 1/3 to 3/8 on the gauge. When I was rolling from the car show parking slot back to the trailer, I noticed the gauge had shot up to slightly over 3/4... almost to 7/8 and had even burped out some coolant. Turning the heater on seemed to help bring the temp down back to almost 1/2... which caused me concern with the [most likely] missing restrictor plate (I don't remember re-installing it when I built the engine) and whether or not I had actually gotten the correct thermostat.

 

I'm thinking I'll be doing the Pantera fix - since getting Cleveland proper thermostats seems to be a trick at any local auto parts store (these days, with everybody using the computer, rather than their experience and/or knowledge of the parts).

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am using an 180* thermostat with the bypass plate in and I can't get the temp pass 184 with the AC on and 100+ outside temp. When I look at the temp gauge it only reaches the first tick mark. I thought the gauge was off so I connected the efi monitor and it verified the same temp reading as the gauge. Thinking about putting in a 192* thermostat to bring up the engine temp.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

just order the part online, easy.

 

auto places always have the incorrect parts in the computer system.

 

+1, look up the part number in the article referenced above and order it or take it into the parts store. I just looked, and the local NAPA store has the 180 and 192 degree thermostats in stock for $6.65. Amazon has the Stant 13468 (180*) and 13469 (195*) for less than $6.00.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have all the correct factory set up and just decided we won't take her out when the temp is over 100. That wouldn't be so bad if we weren't in AZ. I think we may try the Pantera option and see if that helps once I confirm our gauge is reading correctly

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/ezgallery.php?action=myimages&u=3961]My Mach[/button] [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=3961]Check out My Garage[/button]

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am using an 180* thermostat with the bypass plate in and I can't get the temp pass 184 with the AC on and 100+ outside temp. When I look at the temp gauge it only reaches the first tick mark. I thought the gauge was off so I connected the efi monitor and it verified the same temp reading as the gauge. Thinking about putting in a 192* thermostat to bring up the engine temp.

 

That's GREAT news, J. I'll take that over overheating, any day.

 

Thanks for sharing! ::thumb::

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

.

ok, unfortunately the block off plate will not compensate for an inadequate cooling system . . if anyone wants to know how to keep their car from overheating when its over 100 degrees, feel free to let me know...also be prepared to spend some cash because you will be buying some parts.

 

one of the things to do to reduce engine temp is to tune your distributor to your particular engine . . if your timing is too low for your engine, it will be more difficult to make it run cool.

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if I would call it "inadequate" just yet, considering that I most likely don't even have the right thermostat and most likely am missing the stock restrictor plate. After reading some of the other references, apparently having the heater hose circuit opened up and bleeding heat through the heater core is doing what it's supposed to in the absence of a non-functioning bypass circuit.

 

I haven't had much luck with electric fans on other vehicles I've owned, so I currently have a monster 7-blade big-block clutch fan that fits the correct shroud & standard [for an H-Code] radiator, but everything is new. I might have to play with timing a bit, but right now it's set at 16* BTDC (non-vacuum setting) and running strong with great throttle response. I'm thinking that if the problem persists once I get the thermostat/restrictor plate situation squared away, then I'll definitely be looking into a better cooler solution.

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if I would call it "inadequate" just yet, considering that I most likely don't even have the right thermostat and most likely am missing the stock restrictor plate. After reading some of the other references, apparently having the heater hose circuit opened up and bleeding heat through the heater core is doing what it's supposed to in the absence of a non-functioning bypass circuit.

 

I haven't had much luck with electric fans on other vehicles I've owned, so I currently have a monster 7-blade big-block clutch fan that fits the correct shroud & standard [for an H-Code] radiator, but everything is new. I might have to play with timing a bit, but right now it's set at 16* BTDC (non-vacuum setting) and running strong with great throttle response. I'm thinking that if the problem persists once I get the thermostat/restrictor plate situation squared away, then I'll definitely be looking into a better cooler solution.

 

Eric,

I think I have a spare restrictor plate if you need one.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Eric,

I think I have a spare restrictor plate if you need one.

 

Thanks, J - I think I'm going to just order one of those WCCC "Pantera" restrictor plates (like the one in the original post) and get a Windsor thermostat, since that's probably what the local O'Reilly Auto Parts store sold me and is already in there - LOL.

 

I'll keep ya posted, though. Appreciate it, Brutha! ::thumb::

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

obvious things like a different fan or a better radiator will lower engine temps.

 

but, some options for lowering temps.

 

It is not uncommon using a lower heat range spark plug during the warm months in the south west.

so for example you would run autolite 23 or 24s in the summer and 25s in the winter.

 

making sure you have a shroud and a air deflector on the top of your rad and condenser if you have A/C.

That shroud between the rad and condenser can make a huge difference in dropping temps

 

anti collapse spring in the lower rad hose, many people forget about this spring and you could over heating at highway speeds.

 

running lean, and or retarded timing.

check your plugs are they bone white and have specs in the porcelain.. you need more fuel. richen up the jets a little maybe increase the pump shot.

retarded timing increases exhaust temps

 

are you running the vacuum advance? the vacuum advance will help lower running temperatures. lots of people are confused by the vacuum advance and plug it then only run off mechanical advance, big mistake.

an adjustable advance is the best.

 

water pump speed, many people mess around with under sized pulleys to increase HP this runs the pump slower and contributes to overheating.

 

 

change the Coolant Mix, 50/50 is fine for the winter but you could go to distilled water with 10-20 antifreeze mix in the summer.

 

 

Gas: go to a higher octane, yup it will make a difference if the motor is right on lean edge you could be pinging and not know it which increases combustion chamber temps. you could try filling up with the highest grade gas in your area and then throw in an octane booster and see what happens over a couple of days of driving. then you could make a decision based on the results.

 

limiting timing: all in by 3000 rpms isn't good sometimes, you want more initial timing to drop idle temps but you can have mechanical or vaccum timing come in too fast and cause the engine to go lean too much. this will require adjustment to the spring tension in the distributor or vacuum advance adjustment. you could also limit total timing.

 

external trans cooler for an automatic. removing the transmission cooling load from the radiator will drop the temps of the coolant.

----

 

there are tons more you can do or parts you can change on top of all this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...

We are rebuilding a 351C and it appears that the restrictor hat is permanently attached to the engine block. When we tore the engine down I was aware of the removable hat, but noticed that what looks like the restrictor hat would not come out of the block.

 

The block has now been hot tanked and bored .030 and was curious if the hot tank process would loosen or even destroy the hat. It did not and is in the same place it was before the machine work.

 

It the spot in the block simply a mounting spot for the hat? It looks just like the pictures posted here of what the hat should look like, but is not removable. Is it possible that the hat is permanently mounted in the block?

 

How difficult is it to remove the restrictor hat?

 

I am at a bit of a loss and appreciate some input.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff,

That bypass orifice plug is pressed into place. I think that it is brass so it will get destroyed if you pull it off. I don't believe you need to remove it if it is still in good shape. I know I have 2 of them, I'll have to look for them if you need one, not sure where I stored them.

-john

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We are rebuilding a 351C and it appears that the restrictor hat is permanently attached to the engine block. When we tore the engine down I was aware of the removable hat, but noticed that what looks like the restrictor hat would not come out of the block.

 

The block has now been hot tanked and bored .030 and was curious if the hot tank process would loosen or even destroy the hat. It did not and is in the same place it was before the machine work.

 

It the spot in the block simply a mounting spot for the hat? It looks just like the pictures posted here of what the hat should look like, but is not removable. Is it possible that the hat is permanently mounted in the block?

 

How difficult is it to remove the restrictor hat?

 

I am at a bit of a loss and appreciate some input.

 

it "should" pull right out with a J hook and a light pull . you could even try a bent coat hangar.

 

why do you want to remove it?

 

i never use them because they too frequently cause hot running conditions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff,

That bypass orifice plug is pressed into place. I think that it is brass so it will get destroyed if you pull it off. I don't believe you need to remove it if it is still in good shape. I know I have 2 of them, I'll have to look for them if you need one, not sure where I stored them.

-john

 

Thanks John, I don't think I need one, but wanted to be sure it was correct and didn't really know how difficult they are to remove. The only reason I considered removing it was I didn't want it to get lost or damaged during the hot tank, but since it is still there I wanted to be sure it was correct.

 

Looks like we need to get the correct thermostat before the final assembly.

 

One question though, shouldn't it be directly beneath the thermostat hole? It looks like it is offset towards the front of the block a bit. I will get pictures of it next week if I get time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

you are taking a big chance of your engine running hotter than it should by using it which is the sole reason, they made a block of plate to replace it with and why there is probably not one pantera in the country that uses it.

 

before the block off plate was made, people would solder a penny over the hole.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...