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Something not right....


Hemikiller
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To quote Sgt. Howell from the movie Hacksaw Ridge "There's something off in your presentation, Private. Can't place it."

Just remember John Wick didn’t kill all those people for a random car. It was a Mustang

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One of those custom de-stroker rods!  I heard they are expensive.

 

lol

 

here are a few other nightmares. One below looks melted - someone getting liberal with a torch?

 

 

 

Ray

366372863_benttwistyrod.jpg.322048238b6867922df7df88290110bb.jpg

1257138905_badbenttwistedmeltedrods.jpg.31a786bc69858500fb226463f059a071.jpg

1971 Boss 351  

1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 

1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 

1971 Hardtop (parts car)

1973 Mach 1 (parts car)

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Looks like an experimental rod to reduce the side thrust caused by the crankshaft rotation :)

 

Any thoughts on what caused it? Hydrostatic lock, debris in the cylinder, heavy foot? Any damage to the piston face or cylinder wall?

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Looks like an experimental rod to reduce the side thrust caused by the crankshaft rotation :)

 

Any thoughts on what caused it? Hydrostatic lock, debris in the cylinder, heavy foot? Any damage to the piston face or cylinder wall?

 

 

No, this was a spare shortblock I had acquired about fifteen years ago in a vehicle trade. Engine came to me apart and I just stuck it under the bench. I pulled it out to do some parts fit-up. 

 

I'm assuming it's hydrolock damage. Piston is in perfect condition with no marks. They are 425P Silvolite cast units, so any detonation or nitrous damage would have blasted the piston into smithereens. Cylinder wall looks okay, but I'll probably have it check out if I did anything with the block. It's a 4 bolt 73 block that's already .040" over, so any damage would require a sleeve. Even then, I'd probably only use it with block filler.

 

 

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  • 6 months later...

Really? You don't think the cylinders would be strong enough with sleeves? I can tell you from personal experience, that I have a Hi-Po 289 that was at .040, and I sleeved all eight cylinders, and it's never had any issues in 10 years of service. Is the 351c that much thinner in the cylinder walls? Tell me what you know....

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The 351 C in my 73 vert is bored .050" and has flat top pistons, cam, don't know spec., AC, C-4 with shift kit. I bought off ebay had sat for 25 years he claimed in his summer home and he never used it. I let set couple years before I got it cleaned up. First time I drove it blew coolant out when I shut it off a sign of backwards head gasket. So I checked with mirror and R.H. gasket was backwards. So I pulled the heads and put them on right they do plainly mark them with FRONT. 
I think he let the car sit because of the over heat and thought he had punched it too far. I have driven to Charlotte last year to visit the MOM in 90 deg. + temp with no issue. Took to rod run in Pigeon Forge Tenn. and if you have ever been there was 90 deg. + and bumper to bumper stop and go for hour and half to get down the area. No heat issues. It has the stock Ford AC radiator I did take the transmission cooler lines off the radiator and have a fan cooled Hayden transmission cooler.
I would say you could put torque plate on and hone out to .050" over with no issue or no sleeves. I would get the block ultra sonic checked to see thickness. I am thinking I remember around .250" was the normal. 
A friend of mine runs Pontiac GTO and he took a 421 block and bored it .140" over. Since just a 1/4 mile drag car he poured epoxy in the block around the bottom of the bores in water jacket to back it up some. He won at a muscle car shoot out and some guy came up and wanted to buy the engine. I forget what he got for it but he pulled it out and left track with an engine. He then went to Jack Roush and he cast a special Pontiac block and it is a monster over 160 in 1/4 with all steel body in 66 GTO.
We have a ceramics mfg. here and they did some development on ceramic engine. Would run without coolant. I would love to have ceramic liners in a 351 C. I think the Nissan did on some of their HP engines. Nothing wrong with sleeves for sure.

I mentioned in another post Scotty Strickland in N.C. has an Australian 351 C block std. bore he wants $500 for. Has Ausi crank also but no heads they sold in few min. after he listed CC heads. Higher nickel content in Ausi block. Great for you racers.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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On 8/2/2020 at 8:21 PM, Spike Morelli said:

Really? You don't think the cylinders would be strong enough with sleeves? I can tell you from personal experience, that I have a Hi-Po 289 that was at .040, and I sleeved all eight cylinders, and it's never had any issues in 10 years of service. Is the 351c that much thinner in the cylinder walls? Tell me what you know....

There is more to a block than the cylinders.  The shock to the main webs of whatever bent the rod could certainly result in a failure even if the cylinders are perfect.  A thorough inspection with magnaflux testing would be in order before spending money on a block that has had that failure.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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For sure you always check everything before you put any money into it.

One of the old time racers in NASCAR Cecil Gordon he cut pulp wood for a living but he ran pretty much the whole schedule for NASCAR back in the 60's. He never go any factory help and the shop I worked in built his engines for him. He begged, borrowed and took pieces other shops tossed out. They were running the 427 side oiler back then and a new block from Holman Moody was only about $300 if I remember right. We actually brazed the center thrust bearing web back in a block that he got from someone the hit the wall and when the crank shifts forward it cracks the block there. It held together until he got money to buy a new one. 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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The reason I replied with "Really?", is that I've found that a lot of people have a misconception about running a sleeved block, either just one or all cylinders. What is the determining factor is cylinder wall thickness prior to sleeving. Obviously, a block that experiences core shift to the point of the bore required to sleeve a hole renders a cylinder block too thin, should be passed on. At work, we sonic check ALL cylinders on a block requiring a sleeve to make sure it's do-able. 

A sleeved block, in and of itself, is not at all a problem. Some factory engines used to come new with sleeves, ( picture an old V8-60 Ford ) many modern new engines today, do as well. A sleeve is centrifically cast, making it a stronger , denser, and more uniform material, than  factory cast iron blocks are. Sometimes, we can do a boring bar "push", which, when measurements justify doing, will gain some extra wall thickness around a sleeve. A bore receiving a sleeve is not bored all the way through, but left with a step, which the new sleeve is driven to ,and stops. The top of the sleeve is finished flat to the deck, so the sleeve is captive, and cannot move up or down if it wanted to, and it is press fitted as well so it's not going anywhere. Of course, most ALL aluminum racing engines are sleeved as well, however, they are cast to be so.

All engines are not created equal. Your Chevy blocks have much thicker cast cylinder walls. I'd have no issues with boring a 327 Chevy to .060 over, but I wouldn't recommend doing that with your 289 Ford, It may overheat,  due to thin wall casting techniques, but not always, so have the machine shop check. I would sleeve before I'd scrap a Cleveland. We just sleeved a Boss 302, no problem. I don't have the numbers on minimum wall thickness when boring for sleeves in my head, Alex at work, who does all of the boring and honing does, but as long as you're good, sleeves will save a block from the scrap pile. Sleeves come in various thicknesses, so oft-times a thin sleeve is preferred when walls bore to the thin side. 

. So, that's what I know on the subject. If you need to save a block, don't be afraid, just sonic check first.

Edited by Spike Morelli
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Nice write up... To save my original J Code (429CJ) block, required sleeving one cylinder due to a bore imperfection we found that could not be restored through a further re-bore process. The engine was already at 40 over and had been rebuilt at least twice previously albeit, poorly. How this block survived all these year’s is a testament to the durability of these engines. In the end, after carefully discussing all options with my engine builder I asked that he sleeve all 8 cylinders back to original factory bore dimensions. Money well spent in my books....

Edited by 7173Vert
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"Yes dear", has kept me in the hobby a long time...

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To answer Spike directly, Clevelands are known to have thin cylinder walls due to core shift and .040" is typically accepted as the upper limit for any sort of performance build without block filler. I have no issues with sleeved engines as that would be the strongest cylinder of the bunch. If I were to use this block, I would have it magged and the crank magged and checked for straightness. If I were going to twist it above 7000rpm on a regular basis, then it would get block filler. 

 

 

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Here's some printed info on 351s and the subject of sleeving. Especially, note that re-targeting the bore for maximum wall thickness when sleeving, rather than just over-boring the existing hole, is common practice, making a sleeved block more reliable than as cast in many instances. Street  hobbyists aren't aware of the procedure, and most don't need it done, but we do it at work. 

351 C Info.pdf

Edited by Spike Morelli
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Good information, thanks for posting. 

I looked for the book online, Amazon has them in electronic version (Kindle), for $9.99, but not hard copy.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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