351c Build Ideas And Advice

Zach said:

Thanks, looking into trick flow currently. Seems the 195s 62cc ported heads are the only ones offered that are assembled for a hyd roller, the bares are out of stock till mid August. Seems like a good deal, and I can run Edelbrock air gap + my current headers, for almost half the final price of CHIs.

Edit:
Lykins got back to me and apparently he offers the 208 3vs assembled at a pretty reasonable price, so I am back on the fence lol.

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Yeah I had issues with availability on the Trick Flow heads at first but it seems they pick and choose who gets shipments. I ended up buying mine from Tim at Meyer Racing. I also got my complete rotating assembly from his for the 408 I built.

After a long email chain with Brent at lykins I will most likely be going with 3v 208s assembled for a hydraulic roller. Also might just get my whole 408 rotating assembly from him for consistency sake. Was originally gonna go with tmeyer but since I’m getting heads and a custom cam from brent it’ll help to get it as a package and he can give me advice.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Here's the recipe on my build, so far it's been running great with the Holley Sniper 2 set up on pump premium fuel:

Engine block bored 0.030” over
WM lifter bore bushings
Speed Pro Flat top forged pistons, 10:1
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap
Trick Flow 195 72cc cylinder heads
Lykins / Bullet Cams Hydraulic Roller, int./exh. 221/229 @ 0.050 duration, 0.588 / 0.622 lift, LSA 113 Brent recommended this grind, but he had no cores available at the time so he had Bullet grind it for me since I was trying to hit a deadline
Morel Hydraulic lifters, part # 5323 max 6,500 RPM’s “Street Performance Series”
Holley Sniper 2 EFI system
Holley HyperSpark 2 distributor
Aeromotive fuel tank
Stock crank & rods, ground 0.010”
Blueprinted standard oil pump from Precision Oil Pumps
FPA headers
YT roller rockers during break in. Comp Cams Pro Magnums after finding YT flaw.

Scheduled for tuning and dyno first week of July. Anticipating numbers, but so far I've been very happy with this set up. After initial setup with the basic Holley handheld, the engine literally fired up on the first crank. Very surprised when this happened and been extremely happy with it. The only issue I had was with the Holley distributor. I kept having problems with it seizing up after bolting it down. Sent it in twice to Holley and they found nothing wrong. After some fiddling around, I finally figured out that the rotor was actually rubbing inside the cap. I just ground down the plastic around the rotor center post and no problems since. Good luck on the build, and take your time! If you're interested in a set of YT roller rockers, let me know. I may part with my set, but you may reconsider if you read the post about the issue I had.

INPete said:

Here's the recipe on my build, so far it's been running great with the Holley Sniper 2 set up on pump premium fuel:

Engine block bored 0.030” over
WM lifter bore bushings
Speed Pro Flat top forged pistons, 10:1
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap
Trick Flow 195 72cc cylinder heads
Lykins / Bullet Cams Hydraulic Roller, int./exh. 221/229 @ 0.050 duration, 0.588 / 0.622 lift, LSA 113 Brent recommended this grind, but he had no cores available at the time so he had Bullet grind it for me since I was trying to hit a deadline
Morel Hydraulic lifters, part # 5323 max 6,500 RPM’s “Street Performance Series”
Holley Sniper 2 EFI system
Holley HyperSpark 2 distributor
Aeromotive fuel tank
Stock crank & rods, ground 0.010”
Blueprinted standard oil pump from Precision Oil Pumps
FPA headers
YT roller rockers during break in. Comp Cams Pro Magnums after finding YT flaw.

Scheduled for tuning and dyno first week of July. Anticipating numbers, but so far I've been very happy with this set up. After initial setup with the basic Holley handheld, the engine literally fired up on the first crank. Very surprised when this happened and been extremely happy with it. The only issue I had was with the Holley distributor. I kept having problems with it seizing up after bolting it down. Sent it in twice to Holley and they found nothing wrong. After some fiddling around, I finally figured out that the rotor was actually rubbing inside the cap. I just ground down the plastic around the rotor center post and no problems since. Good luck on the build, and take your time! If you're interested in a set of YT roller rockers, let me know. I may part with my set, but you may reconsider if you read the post about the issue I had.

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Thanks this is a big help. I was concerned about first startup with the sniper system, good to know it should all play nice. Unrelated but I am interested in that fuel tank, might send you a PM to learn a bit more, mine is pretty shot.

Zach said:

Talked to Brent at lykins and he suggested CHI heads by a long shot. If I am going with CHI I might as well go for the 3vs. The bare 3v 208 60cc heads, and their dual plane intake is gonna run about 4k before taxes and all of that. Are they really that much better than a trick flow or another aluminum head that are around the 3kish range for a pair and I can use the cheaper air gap intake?

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I used Edelbrock hydraulic roller heads complete out of the box at 1200 each and a matching air gap with a cam from Lykins in my 410 and it’s a middle of the road street set up it made 527HP and 525TQ.

TFS here, but I needed 2v for the 90’s era blower I have.

Ask Brent for a price on the (assembled by him) TFS heads. From what you have said they would more than meet your needs. Or, find some 4V OC heads, they are relatively cheap but, would need complete rebuilding.. Chuck

I did my 351-C build about 15 years ago and then got tied up in work and building a Volunteer Fire Department. Short of it, it still has less than 1,000 miles on the build. Started with "H" code, replaced heads with 71 M codes, got a spreadbore intake and 4300-D carb. Still has FMX transmission with shift kit and runs good now, but must have had all the gremlins in it at first. Mistakes I Made:
1) Did not replace the heater hose fitting on top of block - It Leaked
2) Did nor replace top radiator hose neck - it then leaked
3) Did not remove the brass water restrictor under the thermostat. Tanking destroyed it
4) Did not remove choke stove pipe from intake when it was sent to be tanked - Never came back.
5) New HIE After Market distributor without checking Height verses stock height distributor. Stock Air Cleaner no longer fits without using a lar

Things I DID RIGHT: - going to near stock
1) Had block machined 20 thousands
2) New flat top pistons
3) Rods reconditioned
4) Crank 20 thousands under & Polished
5) Rod journals 10 Thousands under & Polished
6) New Damper
7) Had Lunati Build a special hydraulic Cam as close to the 71 CJ cam as possible
8) Had everything balanced
Within the next month, I will be getting back to finishing this build with
1) Replacing HEI distributor with another stock height HEI
2) Rebuilding the 4300-D carb
3) Converting to rear disk brakes
4) Converting to T-5 Transmission
5) New Paint
6) Adding a lot of miles to the build.

By any slim chance does anyone here know some good Cleveland machinists in the Minnesota area. I have yet to call around to all the shops and check, the only shop near me that I know about does big block chevys. I thought I’d check just in case. Prefer someone that knows a bit since I am building this up pretty good. Thanks.

I love this thread! Since you are really considering EFI you might want to go one step better and get your intake manifold from The 460EFIGuys. You can get a complete intake with EFI ported into the manifold instead of a throttle body like you are thinking of. This is real injection not a modified carb/throttle body. Plus you can choose your intake manifold to match your height requirements so it all fits under your hood.
I had them build me the intake manifold using Holley 72 Shorty injectors and it brings the fuel rails down to the perfect height to fit under my NACA hood cowl.
Check these guys out if you want injection. https://460efiguys./

Cleveland Crush said:

Zach, you're fine with open chamber heads. They burn measurably cleaner then closed heads and also do better at un-shrouding the valves. Like the current and classic Mopar hemi, the Cleveland OC heads employ a 360 degree quench design to gain their swirl and cleaner burn vs the closed chamber side draft.The "best" combustion chamber design is as near a sphere shape as possible (including the piston top). Over the years we've ran countless Cleveland Ford open and close style heads, ALL with excellent results. My opinion, good success with your build.

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The Big difference, when comparing Cleveland open chambers to a true Hemi, is that in a true hemi, the spark plug is centered , and the flame front burns down ,over the piston, opening like an umbrella. With Cleveland open chambers, as with any wedge head, the spark plug is to one side, and the flame front has to burn across the combustion chamber and piston. A wedge head flame front takes longer to complete it's burn than a true hemi, and is why Hemis generally need LESS ignition timing lead. Open chambered Clevelands are wedge chambers with, no quench. I currently have open chambered 2v heads, I have run mine for over 30 years just fine, but the reality is they're an emissions / low compression / fuel economy era design. Does that make them junk? No. Perhaps they are more accurately defined as suitable for milder builds and certainly readily available.

AcesArneson said:

I love this thread! Since you are really considering EFI you might want to go one step better and get your intake manifold from The 460EFIGuys. You can get a complete intake with EFI ported into the manifold instead of a throttle body like you are thinking of. This is real injection not a modified carb/throttle body. Plus you can choose your intake manifold to match your height requirements so it all fits under your hood.
I had them build me the intake manifold using Holley 72 Shorty injectors and it brings the fuel rails down to the perfect height to fit under my NACA hood cowl.
Check these guys out if you want injection. https://460efiguys./

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Sounds like a really cool setup. Already purchased the Holley system when it was on sale, wanted to try something new. I have a quadrajet on my 77 trans am that I had to fully rebuild and tune and it is quite a hassle with late 70s emissions and vacuum lines. Since it will be my mom’s car (for now) I wanted a little bit more of an easy start and go setup for her and didn’t wanna deal with carb/ign tuning. Slightly regretting the Efi setup since the engine is a lot bigger than what we previously wanted but oh well. Should still be fun, especially since it’s new to me.

Gonna revive this forum and use it to document my build for the 351 since so much information is here already. Finally was able to get it disassembled today didn't run into many issues except for one of my motor mount bolts rounding out so that'll be fun. In terms of the engine it was definitely on its last leg, cam is pitted, missing most of the cylinder 1 lobes. Lots of deep brown stains on the crank and bearings. Crankshaft is heavily grooved on a few journals more than likely it is trash, won't be reusing it anyways but still. I am 99% confident a bearing was missing, I keep my shop pretty clean and I cannot find it anywhere and do not remember taking it out, I kept the rest together. Seems there is no damage to the block aside from a vertical grove in cylinder 1, should bore out just fine though. As well as the valve stem seals petrified throughout the bottom end, thanks to another forum post that was solved. The timing chain was also incredibly worn, almost could be pulled off there was so much slack. Overall, pretty bad but all I need is a good core.

Current plan is a 408 stroker with a roller cam that can run on 91 with chi 3v heads.

Few questions if a few people could give some insight please;
Sending the engine to a very well known machine shop, they are not specialized in Clevelands but they have been around for ages and do a lot of good work, is there any information I should know or tell the machinists that is specific to clevelands?
One struggle I had (still am having) are the square bolts that are general used for drain plugs and such, any reccomendations on how to not strip these out? They seem to always be very soft and way to tight, a open end wrench fits well but I tend to not have enough leverage and eventually it'll slip, especially the 3/8s one.

Get a 4-point 3/8" socket. You may have to buy a whole set of drain plug sockets to just get that one socket.

Or, weld a couple of 3/8 drive sockets together to make your own tool.

Anyone have any input on 2 vs 4 bolt mains, studs or bolts.

Currently the block is a 2 bolt main and I was planning on using ARP bolts, from limited research on ancient forum posts they are apparently strong enough but I’ve heard people swapping them to 4 bolts, or even using studs, curious what people think here.

Unless you're planning to do some serious racing, the 2-bolt mains are strong enough for street-driven cars so no need to change to 4-bolt. Using quality fasteners, either bolt or stud, will do the job.