Couple Front Drum Brake Q's

[CFrance729]

So I've been rebuilding all four drum brakes for a few weeks now when I have time, mostly just running into issues with the brakes lines.

The left rubber/fiber/whatever hose had a tear in it, so I went to take that off so I could replace it, but it ended up basically being welded to the metal brake line. I tried everything to get it off, blasters, scraping the rust off, heat, etc. but that sucker wouldn't budge for anything. So now I am at the point of replacing the two front metal brake lines in addition to the hoses. I got the left off with no problem, having an issue with the right side right now, hopefully I will be able to get it off without doing any cutting.

For this problem, I just wanted to get some verification before ordering parts.

https://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_brake_line_set_front_drum_stainless-104037-2794.html

https://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_brake_line_set_front_drum_stainless-103986-2794.html

I have never messed with brakes before, especially on older cars, but I'm assuming PB is power brake and MB is manual brake? I couldn't find much info on it online.

My second question is about putting the old hubs in the new front drums. From what I dug up, the hub was held on from 'swedges'. I'm guessing those little metal tabs around the bolt? I also found that the best way to remove the hubs was to take it to a shop and have them press the hubs out, or wack the studs with a BFG, with the risk of messing up the drum doing it that way. I didn't find much about putting the old hubs in new drums, just that they needed to be seated correctly.

So I took them to a shop and told them I needed the hubs pressed out and put back in the new drums. I had someone else pick them up for me being the shop was about an hour away, but when I got them back, the hubs were still able to be moved in the new drums, and the little tabs were sticking further out of the drum than they were on the old drums.

I guess my question is exactly what needs to be done to put the old hubs in the new drums? Are they fine as is or does something else need to be done?

 

[mustang7173]

CFrance729,

PB is power brake and MB is manual brake? - Yes, You are correct. There were some that had the Power Booster with the drum brakes.

The drum to Hub was designed to separate so one could have the drums turned.

You will need to re-install the hubs. You would want to get some wheel bearing grease first thing. Depending on the age of the wheel bearings, they should be cleaned and inspected. If not, the new inner and outer bearings with new seals are in order.

Recommend to purchase a Mustang repair guide to help with your rebuild.

Are these the clips your are referencing?

Source: Ford MC Master Parts - May 1975

mustang7173

 

[judge]

Once you tighten the wheels lug nuts, the hub and drum will act as one.

 

[Stanglover]

From my experience, unless your car is a concours resto, why stay with drums up front? For about 1200 bucks (price has gone up quite a bit), you can put a set of SSBC 4 piston Kelsey-Hays style disc brakes on your existing drum spindles. This is what I did to my car. It is a simple upgrade that can be done in about 1 hour/side. I ran my car like this for 5 years without a power booster and had no braking issues to speak of. I did add a PB this year and that IS a major job. The so-called direct fit booster kits are far from it, beware!!

The brake line upgrade to SS is a really GOOD idea. Brake line rust from the inside. While you're at it replace the rears as well with SS. The preformed kits worked very well for me, but getting the rear line along the trans tunnel is a bit of a challenge without dropping the drive shaft. Again from my experience. If I remember, the drum brake SS line kit is what you will need for the SSBC install as you will need the master cylinder to distribution block line parts. Replace all the rubber lines as well if not included with the disc brake kit, but I think they are except the rear one. The front brakes will use your existing distribution block, but the rear has a separate adjustable metering block which you can set so you don't lock up the rear wheels.

Several posts are on here if you search.

All the best with whatever you decide to do.

 

[CFrance729]

I was originally gonna upgrade to discs on the front, but it is a lot smarter right now for me to stick with drums.

1200 for just the front for discs versus 400-500 for all four corners to be almost completely redone drums.

I figure cars ran on all drums for years just fine, and its only gonna be for a year or two while I work on other stuff.

 

[Stanglover]

I was originally gonna upgrade to discs on the front, but it is a lot smarter right now for me to stick with drums.

1200 for just the front for discs versus 400-500 for all four corners to be almost completely redone drums.

I figure cars ran on all drums for years just fine, and its only gonna be for a year or two while I work on other stuff.

Yes 1220 V 4-500 is far less drain on the ol' bank account.

My decision to upgrade was because of all the idiots out there without any concern or consideration for our classic cars that do not stop on a dime like modern cars. Nothing like getting the crap scared out of you to influence thinking.

It's your choice of course and your money, but perhaps in the future, something to consider. You don't need high priced fancy aluminum calipers with a fancy name.

 

[CFrance729]

Hopefully now that the perpetual two weeks of raining has stopped I will be able to finish the brake work this week. I think I am gonna try my hand at bending my own lines, being that I won't have to wait for parts and I can make only what I need. I think I'm gonna go with stainless steel but use the cheap steel line to practice and make a copy first.

 

[Stanglover]

Hopefully now that the perpetual two weeks of raining has stopped I will be able to finish the brake work this week. I think I am gonna try my hand at bending my own lines, being that I won't have to wait for parts and I can make only what I need. I think I'm gonna go with stainless steel but use the cheap steel line to practice and make a copy first.

Yeah, hope you all didn't get washed away. That was a baaaadd storm!!

I'm too lazy to make my own lines, but why not try see what you can do. If you're not aware, the flares are double. You will need a brake line flare tool kit that you might be able to rent. You'll need a good tube bending tool as well. Good luck with that, been looking for a while with no luck. I did say a "good one".

To be honest, while you were unable to work on it, you could have had a set ordered and delivered and save the hassle. The kits also have reinforced bends where needed.

Probably I've stated the obvious, but brakes are not something to mess with without knowledge.

Anyway, hope it works out for you, I'm sure you'll get enjoyment and satisfaction when it's done. There are plenty of far more knowledgeable guys here to help if you need it. I'm just relating to my experiences doing a brake rebuild on my car.

 

[CFrance729]

Our neighborhood didn't get anything bad...can't say the same for the rest of the city though.

I figure it'll save me time and money learning how to make my own lines now. I'm sure this won't be the last time or the last car I replace brake lines on. I plan on replacing the lines on my 85 Riviera sometime, and that thing can be hard to find parts for. Besides, I like learning new skills anyhow.

I did a lot of research on good tools and ordered my bending tool. Just rent a flare kit for now though, being as expensive as they are.

 

[Stanglover]

Our neighborhood didn't get anything bad...can't say the same for the rest of the city though.

I figure it'll save me time and money learning how to make my own lines now. I'm sure this won't be the last time or the last car I replace brake lines on. I plan on replacing the lines on my 85 Riviera sometime, and that thing can be hard to find parts for. Besides, I like learning new skills anyhow.

I did a lot of research on good tools and ordered my bending tool. Just rent a flare kit for now though, being as expensive as they are.

Glad to learn that your area didn't suffer too much with that storm.

Also happy that you did some research on making up brake lines. A good skill to have for sure. Let us know how it turns out as it may take a bit of practice to get the hang making 'no leak' flares.

Can you share where you got your bending tool, its quality and cost. PM me if you prefer.

Geoff.

 

[CFrance729]

So I've got everything back together, new lines on...used the Poly Armour lines, good stuff so far. I used some bailing wire to figure the length of line I needed, then just got two 41" preflared lengths. The $20 flaring tools are complete ****, I'll get a decent one of these days. I was able to bend most of the PA line by hand (that being one of the advantages of that line) although I used a bender from autozone for some of the tighter bends as not to kink the line (I kinked the first one I tried).

Now that I have everything back on and attached...I'm having an issue. I can't get the front drums to fit correctly. I thought it was the way the hubs were sitting in the drums at first, so I took them out and tried fitting the drums on without the hubs. Still wouldn't go. It needs to go maybe another 1/2" to 1", it looks like its not clearing the backing plate. The drums I am using are https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/NDA4401017/NDA4401017.

I guess its possible they are the wrong drums, as I just told Napa I needed shoes and drums for all 4 corners and gave them the model and all that.

 

[Don C]

Likely the wrong drums, possibly 1-1/2" drums for 2" shoes. I got an error when I tried to open the link. Do you have the part numbers of the shoes and drums?

 

[CFrance729]

The drums are 440-1071. I'll have to look for the shoe numbers tomorrow morning.

 

[delawarebill]

ya those front drums ARE swaged on at each lug.. what a pain.. i used a dremel to cut some of it and then used a deep socket on back side and pressed them out in a bench vise.. i replaced all the front lugs afterwards.. my car, i was told, sat for 20+ years and has 55k on it.. i'm thinking that should be fairly true since the drums were still swaged on and all the guts looked orig..

 

[Don C]

Please check that number, the online description says 6 bolt holes for that part number.

 

[CFrance729]

My bad. 440-1017. Not 71

I took a couple pictures just to give a picture. Its been a couple months since I started this, so suffice to say I have forgotten how exactly the drums are supposed to sit in the front. I'm pretty sure they are supposed to go over the backing plate, correct? I'm pretty much an expert on the assembly and disassembly of the underlying components at this point, but the other stuff...nah, still new to it.

As you can see in this picture, I was able to get the nut where it needs to be, but only after using the wrench to do it, and all it actually did was push the hub back out of the drum without the drum ever moving.

Also, I AM able to get the hubs to sit in the drums. Maybe too far in actually...I'm able to get it to sit completely flat in the drum, with the swedges out past where they originally sit.

 

[Don C]

Do you still have the old shoes and drums? I would do a side by side and measurement comparison.

 

[CFrance729]

I was looking for the old front drums yesterday...then I came to the realization that when I took them to the shop to get the hubs pressed out, I just had them keep the old ones. I still have the shoes and they match up though.

 

[Don C]

Those appear to be the 2" wide drums, visually and by part number.

Can you tell what is preventing them from going on further, such as brake shoes, or are they hitting the backing plate? They look like they should go a little further over the backing plate, but I'm not sure if enough to bottom out on the hub.