Distributor and Ignition Info Thread

[Mister 4x4]

I can't comment on that, because I have a non-tach car. When I have my non-tach cluster converted with the RocketMan Tach conversion, even then it'll hook up like an aftermarket tach - which is very different than how a factory tach is connected.

Having said that, the Duraspark module only has 2 wires to wire into the system that are not direct to the coil and distributor. The red and white wires are tapped into the following powered sources:

- white: ignition 'Start'

- red: ignition 'On'

In the installation instructions, there is a provision to disconnect the 'pink' wire, which may or may not be the tach feed (again, I don't have a factory tach-equipped car). If not, I would expect that the Duraspark ignition system will go right in without messing with the factory tach at all.

the pink wire is the resistance wire which had to be bypassed to install my MSD ignition. OEM Ford points system used lower constant voltage to the coil. The pink wire lowered the voltage.

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't entirely sure what the pink wire was for. ::thumb::

You can wire the duraspark system without using all the plugs, you can use ordinary spade connectors. I have had mixed results with some aftermarket ignition components. I like the duraspark distributer for mostly stock use, they are simple and you can run one off a 460 on 351C's or 429's. With the normal magnetic trigger you can choose any number of boxes for your ignition. My MSD-6AL has been on my 71 for probably 15 years and has always worked fine. Some people love Pertronix, I haven't had great luck with them. With the duraspark you can run a big or small cap which might resolve the clearance issue.

I actually wound up doing that with my Jeep. Since it came with an AMC Duraspark module, I ended up switching the other end out for a Ford TFI super coil and Ford 300 I-6 distributor cap & rotor set-up. Had to pick up an actual resistor wire and spliced it in, but it all worked out great.

Back on topic, I was looking at an MSD set-up since everybody had such good things to say. But once I learned it wouldn't fit with the factory Ram Air air cleaner, I decided to go with something else. Having already experienced the Duraspark system in my Jeep, I was sold.

 

[wwhite72]

Let us know what you find for a Duraspark distributor.

 

[CZ-75]

Yeah, now I'm heading the duraspark direction...

 

[Andreas1973MustangMach1]

Hi pros.

so here is the update: my ignition key and solenoid was destroyd so i bought a new one

i used the most recomnend wiring.

But here is the problem.

When i turn my key to start the engine runs nice and after i switch the key back to the run position it stops. The is no brumvle or anything it stops in the same secound as i turn it to run. So i think that the sparking plugs dont become the electric in run position.

I also tryed to use the relay to the red ignition wirs to get 12v and i also tryed directly to the battery to get 12v. Both didnt work.

I will try today the wiring from autorestomod. I think there is a pic of it in this threat.

If someone have an idea pls let me know.

Thanks

andreas

 

[Mister 4x4]

For what it's worth, I will be in the same boat as you this coming weekend (once I get power for my electric fuel pump worked out).

When I was hooking up the Duraspark module in mine, following the diagram I posted originally, I decided to test the red/green wire they say to just disconnect - it provides 12V keyed power, so I wired up the red Duraspark module wire to it.

Keep in mind, I don't have a factory tach - so it might be different for you.

As well, mine it currently just wired up - I have no idea if it's going to run or not, since this will be the first time since 1980 that my car has even had electricity running through it - plasma cutter and MIG welder don't count, right?

I will definitely post and share my results (and troubles, if so) this weekend.

Hang in there!

 

[Andreas1973MustangMach1]

Hehe than good luck this weekend

Ok yesterday i changed the wiring diagram and used the wiring from autorestomod wich is recommend for 68mustangs.

It didnt work after that i checked all cables and tata the run cable must be broken sonewhere in engine bay. So i split the run cable coming from the ignition key and it runs. Off - on - run - start. All perfect.

Next stage sequential taillights

good luck for you.

Wich tacho are u using?

Regards

 

[Mister 4x4]

My plan is to run a conversion tach by RCCI ( http://www.rccinnovations.com/index.php?show=menu-tach-all ), but I've been having problems getting my original cluster (and other items I'm going to have tested) packaged up and sent off.

The sad thing is that RCCI is only about 130 miles away from me (just a couple hours drive). I'm pathetic. :shy:

 

[Mister 4x4]

OK - just to follow-up and close the gap on my progress:

I have the Duraspark conversion harness from NPD. The diagram in the bag said with regards to the starter solenoid to:

• red/green to 'S' terminal
  
• white to 'S' terminal
  
• disconnect the brown altogether
  

As for the red power from the Duraspark module itself, it says to find a keyed 12V power source. Guess what? The 'brown' is a keyed 12V power source... so I hooked it to the Duraspark's red wire. (actually used it to power my "Bait box fuse box" relay, and plugged the Duraspark red into it's own fuse)

When I fired it up with the solenoid terminal configuration above, it only fired while the starter motor was engaged. So I switched the white wire from the 'S' terminal to the 'I' terminal, and the engine fired and ran strong.

So basically, NPDs diagram (which looks a LOT like everybody else's) is wrong too - or at least for my car, anyway.

I have it timed around 16 degrees advance w/o vacuum on the distributor, and it's running awesome.

Hope this all helps someone else down the road.

 

[Mister 4x4]

OK - just to follow-up and close the gap on my progress:

I have the Duraspark conversion harness from NPD. The diagram in the bag said with regards to the starter solenoid to:

• red/green to 'S' terminal
  
• white to 'S' terminal
  
• diconnect brown altogether
  

As for the red power from the Duraspark module itself, it says to find a keyed 12V power source. Guess what? The 'brown' is a keyed 12V power source... so I hooked it to the Duraspark's red wire. (actually used it to power my "Bait box fuse box" relay, and plugged the Duraspark red into it's own fuse)

When I fired it up with the solenoid terminal configuration above, it only fired while the starter motor was engaged. So I switched the white wire from the 'S' terminal to the 'I' terminal, and the engine fired and ran strong.

So basically, NPDs diagram (which looks a LOT like everybody else's) is wrong too - or at least for my car, anyway. Your diagram in post #14 with the white wire on the 'I' terminal is correct, although my brown is essentially connected to the 'red' wire from the Duraspark module (as I mentioned above).

I have it timed around 16 degrees advance w/o vacuum on the distributor, and it's running awesome. Which made sense as to why it was happiest around 36 degrees advance with vacuum connected.

Thanks again for all the info, Don. I hope you got yours running.

 

[Don65Stang]

OK - just to follow-up and close the gap on my progress:

I have the Duraspark conversion harness from NPD. The diagram in the bag said with regards to the starter solenoid to:

• red/green to 'S' terminal
  
• white to 'S' terminal
  
• diconnect brown altogether
  

As for the red power from the Duraspark module itself, it says to find a keyed 12V power source. Guess what? The 'brown' is a keyed 12V power source... so I hooked it to the Duraspark's red wire. (actually used it to power my "Bait box fuse box" relay, and plugged the Duraspark red into it's own fuse)

When I fired it up with the solenoid terminal configuration above, it only fired while the starter motor was engaged. So I switched the white wire from the 'S' terminal to the 'I' terminal, and the engine fired and ran strong.

So basically, NPDs diagram (which looks a LOT like everybody else's) is wrong too - or at least for my car, anyway. Your diagram in post #14 with the white wire on the 'I' terminal is correct, although my brown is essentially connected to the 'red' wire from the Duraspark module (as I mentioned above).

I have it timed around 16 degrees advance w/o vacuum on the distributor, and it's running awesome. Which made sense as to why it was happiest around 36 degrees advance with vacuum connected.

Thanks again for all the info, Don. I hope you got yours running.

Awesome! Thanks Eric. Glad to hear the 16 & 36 are working good for you. Chuck gave me those "ideal" numbers. The only thing left to check (and maybe you've done this already) is to copy down on paper what the timing is at various rpms up to the 36 all without the vac hooked up. Then after you're on the street you know your starting point and may can play with it to get to 36 faster with lighter springs without pinging.

 

[Mister 4x4]

Well, I got mine running this past weekend with the set-up I mentioned earlier. It runs pretty dang good too, if I may say so myself.

I posted some more information in this thread I'd mentioned earlier (from Don65stang) and added the things I found out this past weekend in getting it to run. http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-distributor-choice-for-ram-air

Also, in case you hadn't seen it posted elsewhere, here's a link to my first fire up video (sorry for re-posting again... but it just never gets old).

[video=youtube]


Hope this helps with your decision.

 

[rutkak]

First of all, congrats on getting your car running. I can only imagine the joy that overcame you as she fired up.

Not sure if you went duraspark yet, but as I mentioned I was following this thread early on for my 70 b/c the previous owner put in an HEI. The HEI ended up going bad and I did a swap with my 72...ANYWAY, I went with the Pertronix Plug and Plug Billet Distributor (Ignitor II) and coil. It's certainly much smaller than the HEI although a tad bigger than the stock dizzy. It works fine with the RCCI tach conversion, but I noticed that my ignitor III stopped clocking tach at 2200 RPM. Anyway, if you haven't bought anything yet, I'd recommend the Pertronix. I've heard good and bad about MSD and they seem a little pricey for me.

KR

 

[73vertproject]

Umm... Eric, you could also post up that video in the Deluxe Interior Door Panel replacement thread, and the Lug Nut thread, and the Windshield Washer fluid thread, and ....

Just messin' witcha' brother. The first fire-up should be a sticky at the top of all the forums, in my opinion. Wish I lived closer so I could see it in person.

Hijack over!

 

[Mister 4x4]

Thanks guys - once again.

KR - yes, I'm running Duraspark with an Accel Super Coil (cannister type). My specs are in the thread I linked above.

I'd thought about going Pertronix II, but my pal Jim talked me out of it only because if it ever crapped out, I'd have to wait for mail-order for a new module... as opposed to just going to a local parts house for a replacement Duraspark module (seems like good solid advice).

 

[CZ-75]

So this past weekend, I finally installed the Duraspark ignition system.

The NPD wiring harness sure made things simple, but it came without any instructions. It has a half-circle bracket that hooks onto a typical coil, but it didn'r tell me which side goes on the "+" or which side goes on "-". It also has a red wire and a white wire that gets spliced into the ignition switch, but again, no instructions.

Eric (Mr. 4x4) helped me out, and told me what went where.

To the coil, green goes on "-" and red goes on "+"

I spliced the red wire from teh harness into the car's brown wire that was hooked up to the old distributor. I left the white wire from the harness disconnected.

Everything works great.

It also gave me enough clearence to finally finish the installation of the aftermarket Ram Air system.

 

[Mister 4x4]

EXCELLENT!! ::thumb::

OK, so White to the 'I' terminal of the solenoid... Red to a keyed power source (the solenoid Brown disconnected from 'I,' in my case), and coil as you said above. Just making sure that:

1. Mine isn't some kind of weird configuration, and

2. Confirmation for my revised schematic drawing (forthcoming).

Awesome job, Bro! Glad to hear the Ram-Air air cleaner fits as well (since I haven't gotten mine yet).

 

[CZ-75]

I still need to mount the coil. Right now, it is just tucked in under the air cleaner. I'm going to have to use one of the intake manifold bolts, because the one that's there by the dizzy is too cramped, and the fuel line will rest on the coil... that doesn't sound too safe.

I had a hell of a time getting the distributor to seat... I needed to torque it forward a bit in order for it to drop into the block completely. And the oil pump do-hickey didn't want to cooperate, but all is good now.

I need to tweak the timing a bit... It would sputter when I floored it while rolling along around 40 MPH.

The red and white wires still have me scratching my head... One is "Ignition On" and one is "Start." Supposedly, the "Start" wire is optional, and sends a signal to the ignition module to retard the timing so it is easier to start.

I hooked the red wire to keyed igition on, and left the white wire disconnected. ... The vacuum advance is only adding about 5 degrees at idle, but I think it should be adding more. So if the red wire is start rather than ignition on, that would explain why the vacuum advance isn't advancing it as much as it should. But would the car run if only the start wire is connected to the keyed ingition on switch?

I guess I'll have to perform a test, and switch wires... hook up the white to keyed ignition, and leave the red disconnected.... and see what happens.

On a side note, I did try to connect the white to the "S" terminal on the starter selenoid. The car started, but the starter stayed on... made a terrible sound. The motor continued to run even after I removed the key. I had to disconnect the "S" terminal to get the motor (and starter) to stop. That frazzled me enough to forget to do the test I mentioned above... And I just left the white disconnected.

 

[73vertproject]

On a side note, I did try to connect the white to the "S" terminal on the starter selenoid. The car started, but the starter stayed on... made a terrible sound. The motor continued to run even after I removed the key. I had to disconnect the "S" terminal to get the motor (and starter) to stop. That frazzled me enough to forget to do the test I mentioned above... And I just left the white disconnected.

Bummer - with the starter trying to turn the flywheel at a certain speed, and the engine trying to turn it at a different speed, bad things can happen. Glad you got 'er figured out though. Hats off to you and Eric! ::goodjob::

 

[Mister 4x4]

I still need to mount the coil. Right now, it is just tucked in under the air cleaner. I'm going to have to use one of the intake manifold bolts, because the one that's there by the dizzy is too cramped, and the fuel line will rest on the coil... that doesn't sound too safe.

I used a Mr. Gasket cannister mounting bracket (chrome, of course - picked it up at O'Reilly Auto Parts) and did the same thing you speak of (intake manifold bolt). Mine's mounted right next to the driver side valve cover at the front of the engine.

I had a hell of a time getting the distributor to seat... I needed to torque it forward a bit in order for it to drop into the block completely. And the oil pump do-hickey didn't want to cooperate, but all is good now.

Same thing here... turned out being the oil pump 'do-hickey' that hagged me up as well. I just gave it a slight turn and it finally slipped right on.

The red and white wires still have me scratching my head... One is "Ignition On" and one is "Start." Supposedly, the "Start" wire is optional, and sends a signal to the ignition module to retard the timing so it is easier to start.

I hooked the red wire to keyed igition on, and left the white wire disconnected. ... The vacuum advance is only adding about 5 degrees at idle, but I think it should be adding more. So if the red wire is start rather than ignition on, that would explain why the vacuum advance isn't advancing it as much as it should. But would the car run if only the start wire is connected to the keyed ingition on switch?

I guess I'll have to perform a test, and switch wires... hook up the white to keyed ignition, and leave the red disconnected.... and see what happens.

I think if you hook up the White to 'I' terminal, it'll run just like mine... which is probably trying to run with the initial start-up advance (since it's a constant 12V when the key is 'On,' as well as the Brown wire).

I didn't get a chance to mess with mine this weekend, but I'll try simply disconnecting the White altogether and see if it'll run. If it runs any differently, I'll probably just adjust the timing to the 'new' set-up and leave the White disconnected.

On a side note, I did try to connect the white to the "S" terminal on the starter selenoid. The car started, but the starter stayed on... made a terrible sound. The motor continued to run even after I removed the key. I had to disconnect the "S" terminal to get the motor (and starter) to stop. That frazzled me enough to forget to do the test I mentioned above... And I just left the white disconnected.

That's exactly what mine was doing - I had to pull the battery cable to shut it off - and after about 10 minutes of letting the 'freak out' calm back down, I swapped the White over to the 'I' terminal and fired it up again with no hassles.

Like I said, I'm going to just pull the White on mine and see what happens. If it runs the same, I'll probably just hook it back up. If it runs differently... I'll have to figure something out.

Bummer - with the starter trying to turn the flywheel at a certain speed, and the engine trying to turn it at a different speed, bad things can happen. Glad you got 'er figured out though. Hats off to you and Eric! ::goodjob::

Thanks Doc! We're "fine tuning" the Duraspark solution, so we can become the new Authority - for when someone following directions given by VMF can say, "Well, the guys at 7173Mustangs have the RIGHT way to do it." rofl

 

[CZ-75]

Regarding timing and vacuum advance...

The Dizzy I had before was a ProForm HEI single-wire hookup. Initial advance was set around 15, then with the vacuum advance, it went up to 35.

With this duraspark, the initial is still at 15, but with vacuum it is only at 20.

In park, the throttle responds really well. But if I'm going about 30, and floor it, the motor sputters and coughs.

Is that too much advance or not enough?

I also need to pull the plugs and have a look at them.