exploding oil filter, Please Help!!

[barnett468]

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I would think that the company you got it from would fix it or replace it for free, but if you need it quickly, that won't help much . As far as taking that one apart, I would call the company you bought it from first and see what they say so you don't void any warranty they might offer.

Are you the one that had Tim Meyer do your engine?

 

[Omie01]

I will be calling "Precision Oil Pumps" on Monday to see what they have to say, but I checked the box it came in and it states right on the box, "due to the severity of use, we are in no way responsible for any damaged parts or faulty engines" or something of that nature, but since my motor has not really run yet, they may replace it. If not my wife works at Napa, so I'm not really worried about getting a pump, just the road to getting my engine back together and working. I'm just really hoping I can get my oil pan off without pulling the whole motor back out. I have the Moroso 7 qt pan, anybody ever remove one of these pans without completely removing the engine? I know I will have to raise the engine a couple inches at least, maybe drop the sway bar? Thanks for all the help everybody!!

 

[Mikes73]

I would save yourself the aggravation and pull the engine out to change out the oil pump. I will probably get attacked for saying this but I like to use medium lock tite on the oil pump bolts to keep them from backing out. I like to use Melling oil pumps and have never had a problem with one but unfortunately as in yout case things happen.

 

[Paul of MO]

I would save yourself the aggravation and pull the engine out to change out the oil pump. I will probably get attacked for saying this but I like to use medium lock tite on the oil pump bolts to keep them from backing out. I like to use Melling oil pumps and have never had a problem with one but unfortunately as in yout case things happen.

Omie,

You wont get the oil pump out with that pan in the car. Just pull the engine.

While it is out carefully review the placement of the oil restrictors and the placement and orientation of the bearings.

Best of luck!

Paul of MO

 

[jbojo]

My thoughts here is to remove and replace out of the car, it will be much easier. Then I would run it on an engine stand to break it in and see if there are any other issues. I went through a bearing issue with my build and wound up tearing my motor apart again to make sure everything was good. That's why I did this with the 440 on my current build to avoid having to pull it for any issues. Good luck.

 

[barnett468]

I will be calling "Precision Oil Pumps" on Monday to see what they have to say, but I checked the box it came in and it states right on the box, "due to the severity of use, we are in no way responsible for any damaged parts or faulty engines" or something of that nature, but since my motor has not really run yet, they may replace it. If not my wife works at Napa, so I'm not really worried about getting a pump, just the road to getting my engine back together and working. I'm just really hoping I can get my oil pan off without pulling the whole motor back out. I have the Moroso 7 qt pan, anybody ever remove one of these pans without completely removing the engine? I know I will have to raise the engine a couple inches at least, maybe drop the sway bar? Thanks for all the help everybody!!

A reputable company won't hassle you about returning the pump, and in fact, a reputable company would want the pump so they can determine what the prob is because they don't want their customers to have probs with their product.

If they have a way to test the pump which they should, they can do that to see if it is bad . If it is, they can test the next one they send you so there won't be any chance of it being bad.

I have never had to remove a pan like that from a 71 thru 73 car but I would certainly try to remove it without removing the engine . The car is designed so the oil pan can be removed without removing the engine and the extra size of the pan is in the front which is the direction the pan comes out from anyway . If you find that it will not come out you didn't loose any time because you would have had to undo the engine mounts and oil pan at some point anyway.

I have had to remove many pans on the ground and its a little slow and a little harder but it was not horrible and certainly was not as horrible as removing an entire engine and took far less time.

you may have to remove the oil pump pickup before removing the pan.

i thoroughly clean the gasket surface on the block and timing cover and rear main with brake cleaner or lacquer thinner . i use a small screwdriver to scrape out any sealer from the timing cover and rear main end seal channels and little slots on the end that the end of the rubber seals push into then clean the little slots with cleaner and a q-tip or paper towel on the end of a screwdriver.

One trick i use is to install the cork gasket on the block with gaska-cinch . this holds it firmly in place . i use black permatex gasket maker on the rubber end seals . after the gasket and end seals are in place . i silicone the pan and it easily goes right back on.

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[basstrix]

I will be calling "Precision Oil Pumps" on Monday to see what they have to say, but I checked the box it came in and it states right on the box, "due to the severity of use, we are in no way responsible for any damaged parts or faulty engines" or something of that nature, but since my motor has not really run yet, they may replace it. If not my wife works at Napa, so I'm not really worried about getting a pump, just the road to getting my engine back together and working. I'm just really hoping I can get my oil pan off without pulling the whole motor back out. I have the Moroso 7 qt pan, anybody ever remove one of these pans without completely removing the engine? I know I will have to raise the engine a couple inches at least, maybe drop the sway bar? Thanks for all the help everybody!!

Looking forward to hearing about the customer service you get from precision oil pumps.

 

[midlife]

Forgive my ignorance...I just can't imagine how a oil filter can explode with the kinds of pressure we're talking about (30-70 psi, even 100 psi). Those kinds of pressures are seen in typical driving (well, maybe not 100 psi), but they must be designed for larger margins of operation. Since oil goes in the filter and then out again, even if the outbound flow was restricted 100%, once the filter was full, one cannot generate more pressure.

Can someone explain to me how exactly one can generate sufficient pressure to rupture the oil filter canister?

I wonder if there is an extra oil filter gasket in place which would allow oil to leak out at pressure as though the oil filter burst, but the canister itself would still be intact. I'm confused...

 

[barnett468]

ok, i reread your thread.

your brad penn was thinner than your straight weight vr1 when it was cold so that made the problem WORSE.

i also see that you are in minnesota so i looked up the air temp which was around a high of 50.

the oil filters you tried have a burst pressure of around 300 psi . a royal purple filter is 600 psi but the seal should blow at around 300 psi.

before you tear the thing apart, you might consider installing a royal purple filter and 5w-30 or 10w-30 conventional oil with at least 1150 ppm of ZDDP or ZDDB.

I would also consider using a dedicated break in oil.

if your oil pressure stays above 100 for more than a few seconds, i would turn it off and remove the pump.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Conventional+-+5W-30/N0423/C0162.oap

ROYAL PURPLE BREAK IN OIL ... 10W-30 .... ZDDP 1200

COMP CAMS BREAK IN OIL ....... 10W-30 .... ZDDP 3000

VALVOLINE VR-1 ..................... 10W-30 .... ZDDP 1250

JOE GIBBS HOT ROD OIL .......... 10W-30 .... ZDDP 1250

.

 

[rocket366]

I'm curious also?

So a Cleveland is not a full - flo oiling system and ALL the pumps oil goes through the filter?

From research:

Oil Pressure Regulating Valve. The oil pump pressure regulating valve, usually built into the oil pump, helps control the operating pressure of the lubrication system. The regulating valve is set by the manufacturer to maintain the correct pressure. The valve utilized a ball (or plunger) and spring mechanism. When the operating pressure is below the preset PSI level, the spring holds the ball in the closed position so that oil flows to the bearings under pressure. When the desired amount of pressure is reached, the valve opens enough to maintain this pressure. Once the valve is open, the pressure remains fairly constant, with only small changes as the engine speed varies. If the oil pressure regulating valve becomes stuck in the closed position or slow to move to the open position after the engine has started, the pressure in the system will exceed the regulating valve setting. This may cause an over-pressurized oil filter. If a deformed oil filter is observed, the oil pressure regulating valve must be serviced immediately.

 


Relief (By-Pass) Valve. In a full flow system, all the oil passes through the filter to reach the engine. If the filter clogs, an alternative route to the engine must be provided for the oil, or the bearings and other internal parts may fail, due to oil starvation. A relief, or by-pass, valve is used to allow unfiltered oil to lubricate the engine. Unfiltered oil is far better than no oil at all. This relief (by-pass) valve is built into the engine block in some cars. Otherwise, the relief (by-pass) valve is a component of the oil filter itself. Under normal conditions, the valve remains closed. When there is sufficient contaminant in the oil filter to reach a preset level of pressure differential to oil flow (around 10-12 PSI in most passenger cars), pressure differential on the relief (by-pass) valve caused it to open. This condition can occur when the oil filter has become clogged or when the weather is cold and the oil is thick and flows slowly.

 




Thanks

Paul

 

[barnett468]

The valve in the oil filter does not regulate pressure . it simply open if the pressure in the filter gets to high which allows the oil to bypass the filter and go directly unfiltered into the engine . some racing filters like the Jomar, do not have a filter bypass valve, therefore they filter 100% of the oi.

the best way to keep the oil clean besides using a good filter is to install a bypass filter . these are designed to filter out much smaller particles than typical filters, but this means that they have a low flow rate so they are used in addition to a conventional filter by running a T off the oil pressure port that goes to the filter then out to the pan where a fitting must be installed.

the finer the filter material, the less oil it will flow.

the larger the filter surface area, the more oil it will flow.

there are some very fine filters that have a lot of area which take the place of a bypass filter, but these are too big to use on an automotive app and are used on big rig type diesels.

.

 

[rocket366]

All understood

Thanks!

BUT a Cleveland engine has what oiling system?

FULL-FLOW or NOT and ALL Oil Passes Through the Filter?

Paul

 

[barnett468]

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All oil passes thru the filter first on every engine I am aware of that use a filter.

This is the Clevo system . It should say "Oil from filter.".

 

[rocket366]

All oil passes thru the filter on every engine I am aware of that use a filter.

I was a Chevy guy in the day and they are full-flow design as only around 20%

of oil is filtered as oil filter oil is by-passed after 10-15 psi. So in the event of

a plugged filter there is still unfiltered oil lubricating things.

If a Cleveland has 100% of oil going through the filter with no by-pass by

design then I understand how a filter could blow with too much pressure.

Just learning Ford engines here very interesting thread!

Paul

 

[barnett468]

All oil passes thru the filter on every engine I am aware of that use a filter.

I was a Chevy guy in the day and they are full-flow design as only around 20%

of oil is filtered as oil filter oil is by-passed after 10-15 psi. So in the event of

a plugged filter there is still unfiltered oil lubricating things.

If a Cleveland has 100% of oil going through the filter with no by-pass by

design then I understand how a filter could blow with too much pressure.

Just learning Ford engines here very interesting thread!

Paul

the ford filter system is the same as a chevy . the oil filters have a bypass valve as i described and al the oil goes to the filter first on both engines . the filter bypass is in the filter itself.

the difference between the clevo series of engines and other ford engines is that the oil goes to the lifters before it goes to the crank.

small block chevy.

.

 

[rocket366]

the ford filter system is the same as a chevy . the oil filters have a bypass valve as i described and al the oil goes to the filter first on both engines . the filter bypass is in the filter itself.

the difference in the clevo series of engines is that the oil goes to the lifters before it goes to the crank.

.

Conclusion:

If the cleveland has a full-flow oiling system than the filter can NEVER BLOW

as oil filter oil is bypassed after 15-20 PSI.

I am not convinced the cleveland has a full-flow system and research has not revealed the answer. I need a book!

Paul

 

[barnett468]

Conclusion:

If the cleveland has a full-flow oiling system than the filter can NEVER BLOW

as oil filter oil is bypassed after 15-20 PSI.

I am not convinced the cleveland has a full-flow system and research has not revealed the answer. I need a book!

Paul

the clevo system works exactly how i described . as i stated, the oil filter bypass system is in the filter . if you block off the exit to the filter or put a high enough restriction after the filter, the filter will blow just like it will in every chevy ever made.

oil does not bypass the filter and go back to the pan under any condition because there is no bypass port leading from the filter to the pan.

.

 

[rocket366]

oil does not bypass the filter and go back to the pan under any condition because there is no bypass port leading from the filter to the pan.

.

Copy that TYMV understood.

Paul

 

[Paul of MO]

Here's your book:

"The oil pump bypass spring serves as the effective limiter for peak oil pressure when the engine is cold or at high RPM. The cumulative area of all bearing and valve train clearances in the engine defines the pressure at any time below peak."

This is taken directly from Ford Engineering circa 1949. It is also what I have observed and understood over the years. Oil pumps have not changed in basic design since 1949.

So when the engine is cold and the oil is thick the pump will dump some of the pressure because the oil is too thick to all physically move through the pump. Without the bypass something would have to break. Hydrolic lock.

At high RPM the shear velocity of the oil moving through the system causes the pump to bypass because again it all physically can not move through the pump. Without the bypass something would have to break. Again, Hydrolic lock.

In between cold and high rpm your engine has thin oil that is not moving to fast so the only thing that controls the psi under these conditions is how tight, loose, or how blocked the oiling system is.

The bypass in the oil pump is actually there mostly to protect the oil pump.

If your oiling system is blocked at any point and the oil is thin enough to pump and your are not at high RPM's the oil pump will just keep on pumping and something else has to give and that typically is the oil filter.

Now you may think that the filter also has a bypass and it does. But is is a differential based bypass so if the pressure is 400 psi on both sides then it will not bypass but will just burst.

It is possible to get multiple bad pumps in a row but it is unlikely.

It is very possible to screw up a Cleveland oil system modification and get a passage blocked. I have done it wrong and I have had a filter burst.

Again - If that happens and you are using multi weight oil, then at start up the oil is thin enough to pump and you are not at high RPM so the oil pump just keeps on pumping and something in the system has to fail and that would be the oil filter.

This is one of the oddities of fluid dynamics in a closed system. It may seem counter intuitive but it explains what is seen in the real world. That being even with a perfectly functioning oil pump bypass the pressure reaches extraordinary high levels and burst the oil filter because of a blocked oil passage.

Lastly, If you have a dry sump oil system in addition to your internal pump and you get the dry sump pressure too high, the bypass in the internal pump will never open enough to relieve the pressure and....................wait for it....................here it comes..............you will burst your oil filter.

There will be a quiz.

Paul of MO

 

[basstrix]

To clarify, the filter bypass is intended to address a clogged filter element. In the case where the element becomes clogged the bypass allows oil to bypass the element and prevents it from being disintegrated and pumped through the engine. I've seen the result of a disintegrated element first hand...it's mostly plastered to the oil pickup screen.

I believe you stated that you had normal pressure at the gauge. I suggest you tap into the port shown adjacent to the fuel pump (in the diagram Paul posted) to see what the pressure is right at the pump discharge. With a stock spring, you should see no more than ~70psi. With a stuck bypass, it should be easy to go beyond that. The premise is that the restrictors limit the volume of oil able to reach the pressure port at the rear of the block and only allow you to see 60-70 psi, despite much higher pressure upstream of the first restrictor. I don't have first-hand experience with this scenario, I'm only offing based on my understanding and application of fluid dynamics.