front end vibration

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I like "front end vibration" ... it doesn't happen often enuff.. and when I get it over a long  period I end up moist in the middle.... usually requires the assistance of a hot girl.  :chin:
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Hmm, I thought this was just discussed in another thread and what the "hot" girl from the pub really looked like :)

 
The area of the spindle where the inner wheel bearing sits shows more than a little bit of wear- like at some point in the past the inner race of the inner wheel bearing was spinning on the spindle, which is very bad. If a new bearing (because your old bearing may have wear on this ID) is at all loose on the spindle shaft I could see that causing erratic alignment settings as the suspension cycles.

Just something else to check.

Also, you mention that the vibration is most noticeable through the steering wheel, and that a mechanic questioned one of your front wheels. You may want to try rotating your wheels around the car (LF to LR, LR to RR, etc.) until you've flipped wheels on axles and driving on the same road to see if the vibration follows a wheel. Maybe your questionable wheel/ tire is worse than you or your mechanic think.

-Matt

 
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Doing some catch up on the forum and saw this one.

On the calipers. I have never seen one that actually was bad. Like stated you can blow the piston out with air pressure. The piston itself if chrome plated so they do not rust. If there is some rust in the casting clean out with fine sand paper and if pitted you need to replace. 

The pistons do not retract when in operation that is why a disc brake car gets about 1 mpg less mileage than a drum brake car. 

You can get the kits for the calipers just the seal for the piston and the dust boot. The dust boot is the most difficult part.

When you take the brake lines loose from the caliper there are copper Banjo washers in there that should be replaced each time. 

The wear mark on the spindle from the bearing inner race is normal not been spinning on the spindle. If it was it would be blue. I fixed an Alfa Romero that spun the outer bearing and it actually broke the end of the spindle off. I had to make the new spindle from tool steel and harden and grind it. 

On your wheels. Does the center hole match the spindle hub and rear axle hub diameter? Big Ford & Mercury wheels have larger diameter center holes. Lug spacing is same from 1949 up but center hole size varies. The center hole carries the weight of the car and centers the wheel the lugs just hold the wheel on. I do not like Magnum 500 wheels for that reason. They have no center hole to align the wheel.

You should not just go replacing lots of stuff on the car. Find the problem and fix the problem. Process of elimination. 

If you have a Go Pro camera or if you can borrow one video under the car while driving. 

It if very difficult to diagnose and issue like this without hands on the vehicle.

 
Doing some catch up on the forum and saw this one.

On the calipers. I have never seen one that actually was bad. Like stated you can blow the piston out with air pressure. The piston itself if chrome plated so they do not rust. If there is some rust in the casting clean out with fine sand paper and if pitted you need to replace. 

The pistons do not retract when in operation that is why a disc brake car gets about 1 mpg less mileage than a drum brake car. 

You can get the kits for the calipers just the seal for the piston and the dust boot. The dust boot is the most difficult part.

When you take the brake lines loose from the caliper there are copper Banjo washers in there that should be replaced each time. 

The wear mark on the spindle from the bearing inner race is normal not been spinning on the spindle. If it was it would be blue. I fixed an Alfa Romero that spun the outer bearing and it actually broke the end of the spindle off. I had to make the new spindle from tool steel and harden and grind it. 

On your wheels. Does the center hole match the spindle hub and rear axle hub diameter? Big Ford & Mercury wheels have larger diameter center holes. Lug spacing is same from 1949 up but center hole size varies. The center hole carries the weight of the car and centers the wheel the lugs just hold the wheel on. I do not like Magnum 500 wheels for that reason. They have no center hole to align the wheel.

You should not just go replacing lots of stuff on the car. Find the problem and fix the problem. Process of elimination. 

If you have a Go Pro camera or if you can borrow one video under the car while driving. 

It if very difficult to diagnose and issue like this without hands on the vehicle.
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Hello, had to step away from this for a while.  Everything is back together correctly, new races, bearings, calipers, brakes bled.  The brakes feel better then they ever have.  Still have the vibration .... did some more research and found alot of information on Cowl Shake in convertible Mustangs.  I will drive the car with the top up and locked in tommorow to see if there is any difference.  I have included photos of my ynder hood area showing the stock bracing from fire wall to shock towers.  That all seemed tight although might put a torque wrench on it tommorow for good measure.  Of interest where the braces attach to the shock towers looks odd to me.  The braces are on top of a domed piece of metal that is bolted down in three places and holds the top of the shock.  The three bolts dont actually go into a hole but fasten to the underside of the shock tower, it this correct ?  Doesn't look very sturdy.  Thanks for any info.













 
Does your car have subframe connectors? They might help. Is the plate present under the driveshaft tunnel that is unique to convertables and are all the bolts present and tight? Is there any slop in the steering center link, tie rods or the strut rods to the LCA's?

Cowl shake is a result of an engineering flaw-it happens in many convertibles and IF there is a solution, it is often a modification away from stock.

Are the springs all stock or have you stiffened some or all of them?

 
The cowl braces and shock tower caps are correct. Only deviation from stock I see is the use of nylock nuts vs the factory flange nuts.
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THanks for all the info.  All front end parts were replaced 4 years ago, the stiffening plate under the car is present, I installed new leaf springs  a year ago, just stock replacements.  The shocks are KYB, gas/hydraulic standard fit for my car.

 
The cowl braces and shock tower caps are correct. Only deviation from stock I see is the use of nylock nuts vs the factory flange nuts.
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THanks for all the info.  All front end parts were replaced 4 years ago, the stiffening plate under the car is present, I installed new leaf springs  a year ago, just stock replacements.  The shocks are KYB, gas/hydraulic standard fit for my car.
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No sub frame connectors and everything else is stock.

 
Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?

 
Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for your info.   I don't think a video would capture the vibration but I will drive later today and see if I can do that.  THanks

Steve

 
Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for your info.   I don't think a video would capture the vibration but I will drive later today and see if I can do that.  THanks

Steve
Click to expand...
If you have a go pro or a small video camera you can mount under the car you might see something. The front suspension on a Mustang is scary to watch on a video under the car shows how weak it really is.

 
Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for your info.   I don't think a video would capture the vibration but I will drive later today and see if I can do that.  THanks

Steve
Click to expand...
If you have a go pro or a small video camera you can mount under the car you might see something. The front suspension on a Mustang is scary to watch on a video under the car shows how weak it really is.
Click to expand...
Hello, Drove it today with the top up made no difference at all.  The cyclic vibration is definitely in the steering wheel only, not felt anywhere else.  Not in the body, seat or pedals.  It comes on then fades away as slow as 20 mph and is at its worse at 40 -50.  It feels like something in the front tires/wheels/suspension.  No clue at this point.  I will be taking it to a shop in a couple of weeks, I'll post any new information here.  Thanks for your help !

 
A cyclic vibration usually is caused by at least two rotating components being out of balance or out of round. They are rotating at different speeds and can cancel each other out and then both vibrate as they go in and out of phase. Makes it even more difficult to diagnose the cause.

 
I am sure you have swapped out the front tires to see if it is them? Did you check the center hole diameter to see if they fit the hubs to center the wheels?

In racing you get what is called caster vibration but I doubt you could put enough caster into the front end to cause on this model. The same thing happens with a shopping cart when the front wheel goes crazy shaking back and forth. 

I did go to the internet and found a pretty informative video that goes through most areas you should be looking at. The cure for this car was to add braces that kill or change the frequency of the vibration through the body. It is on a Buick but like I said previously we had same issue with a garden tiller and did similar to change the frequency of the machine and stop the vibrations. 


 
I've not gone back to check your earlier thread on this or stuck my nose into this one, but I don't remember if you mentioned what wheel rims you have on your car. I'm assuming factory with hub caps, BUT if by chance you have Magnum 500's, likely aftermarket, then these wheels MUST be balanced on a centering adaptor. One cannot use the wheel center to mount on a balancing machine. The hole is just from the stamping process and is NOT machined to center it. 

Earlier this summer, I bought a set of new BFG's from a local guy and when I drove the car the vibration was terrible. Knowing what the problem was, I took the car to another tire shop where they balanced them properly, no more vibrations.

I just thought I'd mention that.

Geoff.

 
I've not gone back to check your earlier thread on this or stuck my nose into this one, but I don't remember if you mentioned what wheel rims you have on your car. I'm assuming factory with hub caps, BUT if by chance you have Magnum 500's, likely aftermarket, then these wheels MUST be balanced on a centering adaptor. One cannot use the wheel center to mount on a balancing machine. The hole is just from the stamping process and is NOT machined to center it. 

Earlier this summer, I bought a set of new BFG's from a local guy and when I drove the car the vibration was terrible. Knowing what the problem was, I took the car to another tire shop where they balanced them properly, no more vibrations.

I just thought I'd mention that.

Geoff.
Click to expand...
Geoff,

In the video link I posted he shows the adapter to use for the Magnum 500 and in this case the GM aluminum wheels need it. 

That is one reason I do not like the Mag. 500 there is nothing to center it on the hubs but the lug nut holes and that is not very good.

 
I've not gone back to check your earlier thread on this or stuck my nose into this one, but I don't remember if you mentioned what wheel rims you have on your car. I'm assuming factory with hub caps, BUT if by chance you have Magnum 500's, likely aftermarket, then these wheels MUST be balanced on a centering adaptor. One cannot use the wheel center to mount on a balancing machine. The hole is just from the stamping process and is NOT machined to center it. 

Earlier this summer, I bought a set of new BFG's from a local guy and when I drove the car the vibration was terrible. Knowing what the problem was, I took the car to another tire shop where they balanced them properly, no more vibrations.

I just thought I'd mention that.

Geoff.
Click to expand...
Geoff,

In the video link I posted he shows the adapter to use for the Magnum 500 and in this case the GM aluminum wheels need it. 

That is one reason I do not like the Mag. 500 there is nothing to center it on the hubs but the lug nut holes and that is not very good.
Click to expand...
 David, yes for sure the Magnums are a PITA. The amount of weight needed for each wheel was very different, from about 1 oz to 6ozs. and that is the difference with the rims themselves. Egg shaped holes is why I had to buy a new set a few years back. The reason, people insist on using impact wrenches to tighten them without allowing the lug nuts to center themselves. Always do these by hand, then torque.

 

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