front end vibration

[Stanglover]

In a previous thread on the same subject, he states he has Magnum 500 rims and replaced one.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-steering-vibration?pid=354660#pid354660

 Yes, I seem to recall that now. Thanks for searching that and posting the link.

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

Just catching up on these most recent posts. When I last had the Magnum 500 wheels balanced I told the tech that they had to be balanced "lug centrically" He used an adapter that attached thru the 5 lug holes. Was this the correct way to balance ? I will look at my lug holes over the next few weeks and see if they have worn in an elliptical fashion. Also double check the torque, beleive they are torqued to 80 lbs. Am also going to check the steering coupler/rag joint for excessive play, believe it to be original to the car. Having trouble finding a reputable shop that knows how to address this issue, will continue to look. Thanks for all the great suggestions !

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

The rag joint would not be the source. 

Just some new thoughts I have. If this vibration is a harmonics situation on other models that Ford wanted to have a smoother ride and better overall feel they did one thing different. If you got a better model the driveshaft will have a harmonic balancer on the front end of it. What made me recall this I was cleaning up in the garage and found a driveshaft I took out of a Granada which was pretty much the same type unitized body as the Mustang, front spindles with interchange just different tie rod connection. They added that so that it cancelled out any harmonics that might come into play at different speeds or RPMs. They did not worry about that on low end models like the Mustang. They put them on several of the V-6 models due to a V-6 cannot be balanced to zero neither can a V-8 only inline 6 and V-12 can have perfect balance. I think even Ranger P.U. had them due to vibration issues.

I can get you a picture of it and you should be able to add as long as it clears everything under the car. I did find a stock picture on the net of one. 

 

[Don C]

The vibration has to be caused by something that rotates faster than you can turn the steering wheel.

Yes, lug centric balancing is required for wheels that do not have a center hole that is machined to fit the exact size of the hub. I believe that aftermarket Magnums fit that category. However, just because they balanced it correctly does not mean it is correctly balanced. Balancing machines have to be maintained and calibrated. I have encountered tire places that have balancers that should be called un-balancers. Every time they balanced the same tire/wheel the weight locations changed.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

The tire wheel scenario should be easy to eliminate. Just swap them out for some others that you borrow from a friend.

These cars do not ride like a cloud never have and never will were not meant to be luxury riders they were kind of middle of the road. You had Pinto and Maverick below them.

Wish we could see, feel what you are experiencing might be normal.

 

[naa10104]

Hello, what I am feeling is definitely not normal. It really does feel like something in the front wheels it’s sort of a shake or oscillation....is still more back-and-forth. It really does feel like tire balance but I’ve had them balanced. I checked the rag joint today and I think it’s fine. If you turn the wheel very hard left or right the metal pins do hit the metal part of the steering linkage but very little play and I don’t think that’s it. Any opinion on what the magnum 500 wheels should be torque to ...the Lugnuts I mean. I may have to try to find a very highly recommended garage and see if they can re-check the balance using the adapter you have spoken up. Thanks for your help

 

[6DUB606]

Hello, what I am feeling is definitely not normal. It really does feel like something in the front wheels it’s sort of a shake or oscillation....is still more back-and-forth. It really does feel like tire balance but I’ve had them balanced. I checked the rag joint today and I think it’s fine. If you turn the wheel very hard left or right the metal pins do hit the metal part of the steering linkage but very little play and I don’t think that’s it. Any opinion on what the magnum 500 wheels should be torque to ...the Lugnuts I mean. I may have to try to find a very highly recommended garage and see if they can re-check the balance using the adapter you have spoken up. Thanks for your help

" Back and forth " smells like strut rods moving ?  Have you checked these for chewed out bushings, loose bolts on the lower control arms etc. ? 

Are the control arms themselves secure ?

Can you lift the front end slightly to take the weight off the wheels and move as you describe ?  You're running out of options.

PKJ

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I just checked the Ford manual for wheels torque is 70 - 115 ft. lbs. That is from page 11-01-02 Volume 1 Chassis manual, 1972, I do mine 100 all the time. You of course do them in steps probably 50, 80 then 100 and jump back and forth as you go never just go around the clock tightening them.

 

[naa10104]

I just checked the Ford manual for wheels torque is 70 - 115 ft. lbs. That is from page 11-01-02 Volume 1 Chassis manual, 1972, I do mine 100 all the time. You of course do them in steps probably 50, 80 then 100 and jump back and forth as you go never just go around the clock tightening them.

Thanks very much !

 

[Don C]

Just curious if you ever solved your vibration problem?

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

Sorry for the lateness in this response .... very busy of late. Yes, it has been resolved and long story short it was 90% wheel balance and 10% Pittman arm. Keep in mind I have had the wheels balanced at least 3 times by reputable garages with modern equipment. I took the Mustang to a smaller garage owned by the mechanic who has been wrenching on cars for many years and does a fair amount of work on drag cars and muscle cars. He currently races a 41 Willy's dragster. He took my car for a test drive and immediately said, " pretty sure it is wheel or tire related, probably wheel balance. My Mustang has brand new Cooper Cobra's, which by the way are excellent tires and much more reasonbly priced than Radial TA's. Also have Magnum 500 wheels, the right front is brand new as the one it replaced had a wobble in it. Magnum 500's are great looking wheels but are also two piece and as such are more prone to wobble and balance issues. I have seen this on other sites and heard the same issues from other owners. I ordered a new Magnum 500 from Jegs and when it showed up they checked it for balance without a tire and told me to return it as it was out of round. I then ordered one from Coker which they spun before they shipped it to make sure it was okay, It was.

There are several manufacturers that produce Magnum 500's ... the two bought were made by Vintiques and the second is Specialty Wheel. When the mechanic put my car on the lift he checked all the front end components and found that they were all fine and that the alignmnent looked good, he did comment that the Pittman arm had a little play and should probably be replaced, not a safety issue, but would tighten up the steering al little. He still thought the balance was the main issue. He then commented that some of my wheels had excessive amounts of wheels weights stuck onto the inside of the rims. NO weights were installed on the outside of the rim. He advised that generally speaking you can not get a good wheel balance without placing weights on the outside of the rim. He understood why owners don't want to do this as they want there nice rims to look clean and free of weights but that contributes to poor wheel balance. He adivsed that if you don't place weights on the outside of the rim you are really only balancing half of the wheel. This is magnified especially on two piece wheels since there can be variances between the two pieces of the wheel.

He re-balanced all wheels and tires, placing the correct weights on the outside of the wheels and we went for a test drive. I could immediately feel an improvement sitting in the passenger seat and he did also while driving. I would say the overall improvement to the vibration problem was app. 80-90 % I did have the Pittman arm replaced which tightened up the steering and made the handling feel a little better. In my case I am certain that the problem all along was wheel balance.

If you get two piece wheels or mroe specifically Magnum 500's I would recommend doing some research to see which manyfacturer makes the best quality wheel and get them checked before they ship. Coker was very good about this at no extra charge. There you have it, something as simplet as wheel balance. Hopes this helps ! and thanks for all the input on this and other issues I have posted .... this is truly an amazing site !!!

 

[Hemikiller]

This is the type of issue that really smokes me. All the effort you put into diagnosing a problem and it comes down to incompetent mechanics not knowing how to balance a tire.

I had an issue with Wheel Vintiques as well, but it wasn't their fault, but a combination of Summit not packaging the wheels properly for shipment, and Fedex throwing them around. I went through 7 wheels to get 4 good ones. All showed no damage on the outside of the box, but significant impact damage on the inside of the carton and flat spots on the wheel.