Holley Sniper EFI and RobbMC Surge Tank, 351c and FMX

[NewAgeMuscle]

For some amazing reasons, wife's todo went "poof"

Guess what I did instead

More wiring, while at it renewed vaccum hoses, secured and sorted the mess of wires behind engine. Haven't found that connector.

So studied the ignition switch circuit in good old Haynes book, and so went the last unit wire for the engine baye to its place.

As I forgot buy an aluminum plate to make the kickdown bracket, I went back to the hood/ram air closing issue.

No matter how the sniper works, I can't drive with an open hood.



Measured all again, so the extra height of the unit plus the spacer would match the arc of the hood while closing.

As there's no way back but redo an entire new one, took my time and the diff was out. Repainted the exposed polymer at the cut.



Then after some massage it got its shine back, cleanup both unit and in ram-air high flow filters and re-oiled them.



and voila! Fits perfect and hood closes tight on it.

Tomorrow I'll remove the front fender to see if there's a safer route than via trans tunnel and not too visible for the fuel lines...

Happy to see you got it to fit Fabrice!!

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

So after a couple hours now of driving the car the sniper seems to be doing pretty well. Initially right after startup the car was shooting up to 1100 or so rpm, but then after 2 seconds or so would drop down to the 800rpm range. Additionally, even though I set my idle to hover around 680rpm it was constantly 750-850 range. That's when I came across these two helpful links:

http://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro-hangout/holley-sniper-installation-startup-troubleshooting

https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?19723-Sniper-EFI-tuning-questions-amp-suggestions

I did what the first link recommended (adjusting the idle speed curve in advanced settings) and now my idle seems pretty consistent at where I want it right around 680  ::thumb::

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Hi guys so today I realized that my ground wire going to the PS is getting extremely hot. Both my power and ground wires are 10 gauge, and I have them both hooked up to the POS and NEG side of the starter solenoid. I have several things grounding off of the solenoid will that cause a problem? I'm new to wiring so am unsure of what could be wrong. 

Another thing that I suspect however is the difference in sizes for the Power wire as it goes to the relay and the fuse. Currently I have the Power Wire (10 gauge) attached to the solenoid, which then goes to a smaller gauge wire that came on the inline 15 amp fuse, then it goes to the fuse itself, then on the other side of the fuse is the same smaller wire it came with, which then goes to the relay wire which is the same size as the fuse wire, then out of the relay comes some more of the smaller gauge, then it goes back to 10 gauge to the PowerSurge. 

Sorry if that was confusing. So the question is are mismatching power wire sizes something that would cause a ground to heat up even if the ground wire is the same size or bigger than all the power wire connections? The power wire isn't hot at all if thats relevant..

Thanks,

Adam

 

[Fabrice]

Awesome Adam, wish I was there

Never got it on the carb to idle that low, 800+ yes, bellow would have ment for me be shaken crazy and have

to keep it on pedal for minutes during winter before it could keep it without dying. Curious to hear the steady "blom blo blom blom"...

Regarding higher rmp's in first seconds, My 5.0 t-bird does that too, it goes 1100, then goes gradually back to +-800.

On my side, far from hearing the sweet low rpm sound, went bits further, installed the monitor inside, and routed it.

I was yesterday worried about being to short on wire length, but turned out be spot on.

Today showed me, that every new step in this install adds up to the todo...

I wasn't convinced at all about the safety of installing the two fuel lines via the tunnel already crowded by a **** load of wires.

Going bits left or right, the lines would comes too near of the exhaust heat... Plus I already know that if i would go this way,

as I plan an AOD swap, that these might be in my way soon or later and make me regret I've installed them this way.

On my 93 tbird its also coming form the side, so I've removed the front panel to see and pick the shortest and safest way.

Of course after I started remove the old line and tried pick the "ideal" location, the todo grown on me, as I need relocate

previous wirings, like my extra electric fan to clear up some space... todo++



The location should also allow me to secure them bellow the reinforcement bar (or whatever these massives brackets are named)



but then comes another prob in sight. Even with a nice fat grommet, once on the wheel side, they need follow some serious

curves and I really not sure I can do this with the fuels lines in one go. (I mean I could, but not sure thats the way at all)

I think 90 degrees connections would be better here.. and also may be at the bottom, where the original line takes a 90 degree turn to be aligned to the floor.

From there its straight line to rear of the car, and I haven't seen (yet) a place where it would become a problem

I even wonder if two metal lines bigger but identical in shape to the original would not even be better...

Any suggestions about eventual hardware I should use here?

 

[Fabrice]

oh I see my reply came 1 min too late...

Is the use of the starter solenoid indicated for this install? Could you share the diagram?

oh and don't read this one unless you want to leave the car in garage bits longer like me and end up recheck all connections you found

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/interior-electrical/1511-dont-do-it-top-12-wiring-mistakes/

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

oh I see my reply came 1 min too late...

Is the use of the starter solenoid indicated for this install? Could you share the diagram?

oh and don't read this one unless you want to leave the car in garage bits longer like me and end up recheck all connections you found

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/interior-electrical/1511-dont-do-it-top-12-wiring-mistakes/

No the use of the solenoid is not indicated, but it seemed like a good place for me to ground / get power form for the Surge Tank. Thanks for the link, I took a look at it seems like I have done everything correctly, (the PS has a dedicated power line, ground, relay and fuse), but I will try switching the ground location now to see if that helps!

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Awesome Adam, wish I was there

Never got it on the carb to idle that low, 800+ yes, bellow would have ment for me be shaken crazy and have

to keep it on pedal for minutes during winter before it could keep it without dying. Curious to hear the steady "blom blo blom blom"...

Regarding higher rmp's in first seconds, My 5.0 t-bird does that too, it goes 1100, then goes gradually back to +-800.

On my side, far from hearing the sweet low rpm sound, went bits further, installed the monitor inside, and routed it.

I was yesterday worried about being to short on wire length, but turned out be spot on.

Today showed me, that every new step in this install adds up to the todo...

I wasn't convinced at all about the safety of installing the two fuel lines via the tunnel already crowded by a **** load of wires.

Going bits left or right, the lines would comes too near of the exhaust heat... Plus I already know that if i would go this way,

as I plan an AOD swap, that these might be in my way soon or later and make me regret I've installed them this way.

On my 93 tbird its also coming form the side, so I've removed the front panel to see and pick the shortest and safest way.

Of course after I started remove the old line and tried pick the "ideal" location, the todo grown on me, as I need relocate

previous wirings, like my extra electric fan to clear up some space...  todo++



The location should also allow me to secure them bellow the reinforcement bar (or whatever these massives brackets are named)



but then comes another prob in sight. Even with a nice fat grommet, once on the wheel side, they need follow some serious

curves and I really not sure I can do this with the fuels lines in one go. (I mean I could, but not sure thats the way at all)

I think 90 degrees connections would be better here.. and also may be at the bottom, where the original line takes a 90 degree turn to be aligned to the floor.

From there its straight line to rear of the car, and I haven't seen (yet) a place where it would become a problem

I even wonder if two metal lines bigger but identical in shape to the original would not even be better...

Any suggestions about eventual hardware I should use here?

Went through the exact same experience with my carb this winter holding the pedal down to keep the car alive, glad I don't have to do that anymore! I do love the low rpm sound, nothing beats a grumbly american V8! 

Your plan for the gas line route looks pretty good! Not sure what kinds of hardware you should be using, hopefully another member with some more experience can point you in the right direction. Got my fingers crossed that you'll get her on the road soon!

 

[midlife]

Hi guys so today I realized that my ground wire going to the PS is getting extremely hot. Both my power and ground wires are 10 gauge, and I have them both hooked up to the POS and NEG side of the starter solenoid. I have several things grounding off of the solenoid will that cause a problem? I'm new to wiring so am unsure of what could be wrong. 

There is no positive or negative side of the starter solenoid.  There is a battery side and a starter side, however. 

All the solenoid does is act as a relay.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Hi guys so today I realized that my ground wire going to the PS is getting extremely hot. Both my power and ground wires are 10 gauge, and I have them both hooked up to the POS and NEG side of the starter solenoid. I have several things grounding off of the solenoid will that cause a problem? I'm new to wiring so am unsure of what could be wrong. 

There is no positive or negative side of the starter solenoid.  There is a battery side and a starter side, however. 

All the solenoid does is act as a relay.

Well that's embarrassing...  :shootself:  Switched the ground and now she works perfect... Haha.... Kill me now. Thanks midlife

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

So its my 3rd day driving the sniper and after some spirited driving an old problem of mine occurred... dieseling. I didn't know what to call it before 73pony referenced it, but previously I just thought it was the old carb's fault. Now that it happened with the new sniper, I'm wondering how I can fix it? Any suggestions would be great!

Note: it only does this when I don't use 94 octane, but with a 9:5:1 compression I didn't think I would need 94 octane..? A couple of people I spoke in person with suspected that the 94 octane here in Vancouver has 0 ethanol while the others do. Another suspects some type of additive in the 94 is making the fuel less prone to explosion when hot, therefore not exploding after the sparks cut or "dieseling"

-EDIT-

Just tried stomping on the gas from a stop and the car backfired through the Throttle body and died... I

thought this issue would be gone when I swapped out the carb as I thought that was a symptom of a bad accelerator pump, but I guess I was wrong. Can't hear any pinging (at one point I did, but retarded the timing just enough so I couldn't hear it anymore), but even without the pinging aren't dieseling and backfires a sign of the timing being too far advanced?

Thanks in advance,

Adam

 

[Fabrice]

Octane level is most important, in fact that the very definition of it. How it resists to compression to self ignition.

Over here we have only 95 and 98 and never got that issue on 95. I've got some pinging during accelerations running on 95 depending on brands, but never got engine run-on on shutdown.

Going lower octane will increase chances it occurs.

On mine, I've set double electrodes platinums plugs and the pingings were practically gone.

I know you have more friends running similar V8's combos, so if this is not a common issue for those running lower than 94 octane, I'd first loose the plugs and inspect them carefully.

If of wrong grade, they may become too hot. They would look glazed. if they look to white, its mixture that is too lean.

if they look fine, i'd go for an air leak test (intake to heads). Using some paste, oil around intake to close potential source of air succion.

Then I'd look at the timing.

 

[Don C]

Dieseling requires a fuel source. It should not be possible to have dieseling with fuel injection. As soon as the ignition switch is shut off the injectors remain closed, eliminating the fuel source that causes dieseling with carburetors.

Two possibilities that I can think of, one, debris in the injectors preventing them from closing and continuing to drip fuel until the pressure in the system bleeds off. Two, the crankcase is saturated with fuel and the fuel vapors are drawn through the PCV.

Make that 3, because the injectors are inside the throttle body, if they or the fuel connections are loose, the fuel could come from them, also.

 

[jbojo]

What is the car idling at? Higher idle is usually a sign that the throttle plate is not set up properly or you have a faulty IAC motor. You will have residual fuel in the plenum and if the IAC motor is allowing sufficient air in you could have dieseling if the fuel octane is too low. The idle solenoids in the carb systems were used to close the throttle plates to avoid dieseling by choking the air flow similar to a IAC motor in TBI systems.

 

[Fabrice]

From video's I saw on his channel, he runs a spacer looking like if made of flexible plastic.

I've seen on mine (aluminum one) that the upper gasket was distorted following the surface of the carb plate. So same "print" could occur on this spacer

and create a small air leak if he kept this one to receive the new unit. That's what made me think of air leak before timing issue.

but yeah, I have zero experience with low octane fuel. So that might simply be it.

Out of curiosity, what are the octane levels you guys can buy in regular stations?

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Dieseling requires a fuel source. It should not be possible to have dieseling with fuel injection. As soon as the ignition switch is shut off the injectors remain closed, eliminating the fuel source that causes dieseling with carburetors.

Two possibilities that I can think of, one, debris in the injectors preventing them from closing and continuing to drip fuel until the pressure in the system bleeds off. Two, the crankcase is saturated with fuel and the fuel vapors are drawn through the PCV.

Make that 3, because the injectors are inside the throttle body, if they or the fuel connections are loose, the fuel could come from them, also.

Hmm.. Given that the EFI is brand new and the previous carb also did the same thing, I'd like to think it's not debris in the injector especially with the 10 micron fuel filter. How can I tell if the crankcase is saturated? My PCV is not currently hooked up.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

What is the car idling at?  Higher idle is usually a sign that the throttle plate is not set up properly or you have a faulty IAC motor.  You will have residual fuel in the plenum and if the IAC motor is allowing sufficient air in you could have dieseling if the fuel octane is too low.  The idle solenoids in the carb systems were used to close the throttle plates to avoid dieseling by choking the air flow similar to a IAC motor in TBI systems.

I have the idle fluctuating from around 680-800 when in drive. Should I have to run 94 octane for an engine with a supposed 9:5:1 compression ratio? (as a note that's the compression ratio I was told by the guy who spec'd out my engine. I have 2v aussie closed wedged chamber heads, dished pistons and a mild cam) Also any input on the backfire and stall when I floor it from a stop? Thanks

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

From video's I saw on his channel, he runs a spacer looking like if made of flexible plastic.

I've seen on mine (aluminum one) that the upper gasket was distorted following the surface of the carb plate. So same "print" could occur on this spacer

and create a small air leak if he kept this one to receive the new unit. That's what made me think of air leak before timing issue.

but yeah, I have zero experience with low octane fuel. So that might simply be it.

Out of curiosity, what are the octane levels you guys can buy in regular stations?

Replying to this and your previous post, 94 octane is the highest gas station octane here! Crazy minimum is 95 for you.. I'm pretty sure I got a wooden spacer, but regardless I will check for a leak with some carb cleaner or Wd40.

 

[tony-muscle]

Sorry I am reading this thread now. As I recently installed a FiTech GoEFI 600 and a RobBMC PowerSurge I would have been able to help.

To summarize:

-Water temp sensor: as explained, use the stock location for the EFI and the thread by the pump for the stock sensor. The dash water temp gauge will be lower as stated.

-Per the instructions of the GoEFI, my O2 bung is 2" back from the collector of the passenger side bank, drilled into the adapter from the 3" collector to the 2.5" exhaust pipe. They recommend at least 2" from the collector.

-I used the post by the starter relay as a continuous battery plug, and the "S" plug of my voltage regulator for "engine on" power.

-I am using a 1" plastic spacer between manifold and EFI unit. I don't think it is needed, but just added it to mimic the height I will get once I can find a Blue Thunder manifold.

-I wrapped the bottom half of the RobBMC pump with heat shield after having it coated with Eastwood rubberized undercoating (had some left laying around). Additionally, my headers are ceramic coated, I added an exhaust shield between headers and pump, and a hose shield surrounding the heater core hoses that run right by the pump. All these to be very sure that the gas temperature is not affected by the headers. May be overkill, but it is insurance against unforeseen temperature issues.

-My EFI unit is running very well after month and a half of use. The only issues I have is slight bugging under heavy acceleration. I have not played enough with the settings, but I am not too worry since I will eventually pull the engine out to stroke it, which will change the settings anyways.

 

[jbojo]

What is the car idling at?  Higher idle is usually a sign that the throttle plate is not set up properly or you have a faulty IAC motor.  You will have residual fuel in the plenum and if the IAC motor is allowing sufficient air in you could have dieseling if the fuel octane is too low.  The idle solenoids in the carb systems were used to close the throttle plates to avoid dieseling by choking the air flow similar to a IAC motor in TBI systems.

I have the idle fluctuating from around 680-800 when in drive. Should I have to run 94 octane for an engine with a supposed 9:5:1 compression ratio? (as a note that's the compression ratio I was told by the guy who spec'd out my engine. I have 2v aussie closed wedged chamber heads, dished pistons and a mild cam) Also any input on the backfire and stall when I floor it from a stop? Thanks

I would think that 94 octane for a CR of 9.5:1 is more than enough.  I run 92 octane with a CR of 10.5:1 with no pinging.

As far as the backfire, I had a backfire through the Throttle body during hard acceleration and through the exhaust (popping) on sudden release of the throttle.  The solution for my system was to increases pump squirt on hard accel and for the other to adjust "power valve enrich" to assist in manifold pressure transitions. The PVE works by adding fuel based on MAP transitions while moving the throttle.

Each systems has different ways to adjust these settings and these settings fixed the backfire/popping issues for me.

 

[tony-muscle]

What is the car idling at?  Higher idle is usually a sign that the throttle plate is not set up properly or you have a faulty IAC motor.  You will have residual fuel in the plenum and if the IAC motor is allowing sufficient air in you could have dieseling if the fuel octane is too low.  The idle solenoids in the carb systems were used to close the throttle plates to avoid dieseling by choking the air flow similar to a IAC motor in TBI systems.

I have the idle fluctuating from around 680-800 when in drive. Should I have to run 94 octane for an engine with a supposed 9:5:1 compression ratio? (as a note that's the compression ratio I was told by the guy who spec'd out my engine. I have 2v aussie closed wedged chamber heads, dished pistons and a mild cam) Also any input on the backfire and stall when I floor it from a stop? Thanks

I would think that 94 octane for a CR of 9.5:1 is more than enough.  I run 92 octane with a CR of 10.5:1 with no pinging.

As far as the backfire, I had a backfire through the Throttle body during hard acceleration and through the exhaust (popping) on sudden release of the throttle.  The solution for my system was to increases pump squirt on hard accel and for the other to adjust "power valve enrich" to assist in manifold pressure transitions. The PVE works by adding fuel based on MAP transitions while moving the throttle.

Each systems has different ways to adjust these settings and these settings fixed the backfire/popping issues for me.

+1 This is a good advice. Play with your accelerator pump settings, specially the hard accelerator.

With my system I get backfire when I run with open exhaust cut-outs. I think this happens because the backpressure drops behind the O2 sensor. The instructions recommend at least 18" between the exhaust tip and O2 sensor. With the cut-out open there are about 3". The other issue is that the settings between running regular and open exhaust change suddenly so the system can't handle the open exhaust that well because this is seldom used.