Holley Sniper EFI and RobbMC Surge Tank, 351c and FMX

[Don C]

What I said (at least meant) is if the sending unit and float that are now in your tank are old or of unknown quality is to replace your old sending unit with the new one and then modify your old one for the vent/return.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

What I said (at least meant) is if the sending unit and float that are now in your tank are old or of unknown quality is to replace your old sending unit with the new one and then modify your old one for the vent/return.

Oh gotcha, I probably mis-interpreted it  :shootself:

 

[Fabrice]

Last weekend, as package was still somewhere in deep usa, I started prep a bit and made a plate

for the old mechanical pump. Made of the very same aluminum plate I've used to make my steering wheel

and few other small parts. Prolly the best $20 investment I've ever made on the mustang

Yesterday I finally received the baby. Dutch import taxes added almost $400 extra damage.

(if you're dutch and sending comes via UPS, think that you'll have to call UPS and ask how much once you see on tracker it has gone beyond customs,

as they accept only cash, of the exact amount on delivery. They will claim they have mailed you about the costs. As its the third time UPS delivers me parts from usa, I know for sure they don't. If you don't, you're good for another trip in center of country to get your package. On my second experience with them, they claimed they came back, which was a big fat lie.)



So thats how the kit looks like. big box with two boxes. One the sniper kit, the other the pump/fittings kit.



The unit in second box is well protected and with all the promissed wires.

One cheap move from Holley, is that their their tech pdf says the kit has 40ft of fuel lines. Turns out only 20 are provided.

I'll know for sure later on if that's enuff, but at first sight, it seems a bit short to install the return line from engine as well.

As also described in their pdf, the kit comes with some chevy plate for the old pump. hence why I did the plate earlier.



As I have a custom ram-air, made a quick test with spacer...



Here a pict from side. Turns out I'll have to change/redo something as it turns out

alignment is not exactly same as with my Holley 650 DP. There's like 1.5 cm diff.

Chances i'll have to remove the spacer are high.. I wanted keep it to reduce potential

problems that may occur on dual planes.

So first thing on the todo: ensure I can close the hood

@Don C, Gotcha too! Big thx for this vent/sending unit tip. Saves drilling/extra nipple and eases a lot the installation.

It's safe, cheap and very clean.

I don't even really need to fully empty the tank (+- 2 gallons in there) and might even be able to do the swap by dropping the tank just a bit.

As I painted the tank a while back and all clamps are clean, greased, that should not be a prob to lower it down gently.

Unfortunately the sending unit is still in Ohio...

Just like NewAgeMuscle, i'll post more picts as I go.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Last weekend, as package was still somewhere in deep usa, I started prep a bit and made a plate

for the old mechanical pump. Made of the very same aluminum plate I've used to make my steering wheel

and few other small parts. Prolly the best $20 investment I've ever made on the mustang

Yesterday I finally received the baby. Dutch import taxes added almost $400 extra damage.

(if you're dutch and sending comes via UPS, think that you'll have to call UPS and ask how much once you see on tracker it has gone beyond customs,

as they accept only cash, of the exact amount on delivery. They will claim they have mailed you about the costs. As its the third time UPS delivers me parts from usa, I know for sure they don't. If you don't, you're good for another trip in center of country to get your package. On my second experience with them, they claimed they came back, which was a big fat lie.)



So thats how the kit looks like. big box with two boxes. One the sniper kit, the other the pump/fittings kit.



The unit in second box is well protected and with all the promissed wires.

One cheap move from Holley, is that their their tech pdf says the kit has 40ft of fuel lines. Turns out only 20 are provided.

I'll know for sure later on if that's enuff, but at first sight, it seems a bit short to install the return line from engine as well.

As also described in their pdf, the kit comes with some chevy plate for the old pump. hence why I did the plate earlier.



As I have a custom ram-air, made a quick test with spacer...



Here a pict from side. Turns out I'll have to change/redo something as it turns out

alignment is not exactly same as with my Holley 650 DP. There's like 1.5 cm diff.

Chances i'll have to remove the spacer are high.. I wanted keep it to reduce potential

problems that may occur on dual planes.

So first thing on the todo: ensure I can close the hood

@Don C, Gotcha too! Big thx for this vent/sending unit tip. Saves drilling/extra nipple and eases a lot the installation.

It's safe, cheap and very clean.

I don't even really need to fully empty the tank (+- 2 gallons in there) and might even be able to do the swap by dropping the tank just a bit.

As I painted the tank a while back and all clamps are clean, greased, that should not be a prob to lower it down gently.

Unfortunately the sending unit is still in Ohio...

Just like NewAgeMuscle, i'll post more picts as I go.

Looks great Fabrice! Hopefully mine clears my hood, haven't checked yet, was planning on keeping my 1" spacer as well. That custom ram air looks really cool as well.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

For the latest update, I am now trying to find a place to put my 3/8" coolant temp sensor. Does it matter if I put it in the head vs the intake manifold? I am running 2v Closed Chamber Australian Heads, anyone know where I could put the sensor? Is there a place to put it in the head? Or should I put it in the intake somewhere?

Intake (Edelbrock Performer 2750):



Crappy picture of passenger side head:



image hosting com

Thanks for the help,

Adam

-EDIT-

On the thread https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-coolant-sensor-thread-size?page=2&highlight=coolant+temp+sensor

it shows a place on the water pump I could put the sensor. Will this be fine even though Holley recommends either the manifold or the heads?

Could I put it in where the circled bronze plug is?



Here is the part of the water pump I am referring to:



EDIT EDIT

Was just told Clevos don'y even have coolant running through the intake rip  :shootself:

Looks like the best bet is that water pump plug?

 

[Don C]

351Cs have a dry manifold, no coolant in them. Replace your stock coolant temperature gauge sensor with the sensor for the EFI and move the temperature gauge sensor to the plug on the side of the water pump.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

351Cs have a dry manifold, no coolant in them. Replace your stock coolant temperature gauge sensor with the sensor for the EFI and move the temperature gauge sensor to the plug on the side of the water pump.

What are the benefits of putting the EFI sensor at the temp gauge spot? Will it make much of difference if I just put the EFI sensor at the water pump spot?

-Edit-

Looking at it now, I don't think my temp gauge sensor will fit in the water pump plug as it will hit the alternator.. Any suggestions? Should I just put the EFI sensor there?

 

[Fabrice]

Where is you sensor located now? Kuz, I actually got the inverse question

I have the water temp next to pump as far as I can remember.

And dunno where else to relocate it...

For your hood clearance no prob, there is plenty of room, for me its just an arbitrary rotation issue that mismatches the new unit

top surface vs the old carb. (lines rotated not shown in pict) I saw since i posted I should be able get more than 1 cm correction without much efforts.

and keep the spacer. If I need more, I'll need to make/test with less high spacers. Also the unit is not bolted yet, so there are

2 gaskets that will be reduces in height and give me another 1 or 2 mm.

As a side note, there is another high flow air filter that you can't see in the ram air. once hood is closed, it lays on top filter.

The diff with original one is that I will see the sniper every time I'll open the hood

Should be enuff to make me forget my good old dual feed line with pressure gauge that has been on this engine forever. Loved that thing...

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Where is you sensor located now? Kuz, I actually got the inverse question

I have the water temp next to pump as far as I can remember.

And dunno where else to relocate it...

For your hood clearance no prob, there is plenty of room, for me its just an arbitrary rotation issue that mismatches the new unit

top surface vs the old carb. (lines rotated not shown in pict) I saw since i posted I should be able get more than 1 cm correction without much efforts.

and keep the spacer. If I need more, I'll need to make/test with less high spacers. Also the unit is not bolted yet, so there are

2 gaskets that will be reduces in height and give me another 1 or 2 mm.

As a side note, there is another high flow air filter that you can't see in the ram air. once hood is closed, it lays on top filter.

The diff with original one is that I will see the sniper every time I'll open the hood

Should be enuff to make me forget my good old dual feed line with pressure gauge that has been on this engine forever. Loved that thing...

Not sure what I was thinking.... Was looking at the oil pressure sensor lol. Here's a picture of the temp sensor circled in green and the second spot in red. 



So guess I will, do as Don suggested and put the EFI sensor into the block and the temp into the water pump? And just making sure these holes are 3/8"s correct?

Thanks,

Adam

 

[73pony]

Where is you sensor located now? Kuz, I actually got the inverse question

I have the water temp next to pump as far as I can remember.

And dunno where else to relocate it...

For your hood clearance no prob, there is plenty of room, for me its just an arbitrary rotation issue that mismatches the new unit

top surface vs the old carb. (lines rotated not shown in pict) I saw since i posted I should be able get more than 1 cm correction without much efforts.

and keep the spacer. If I need more, I'll need to make/test with less high spacers. Also the unit is not bolted yet, so there are

2 gaskets that will be reduces in height and give me another 1 or 2 mm.

As a side note, there is another high flow air filter that you can't see in the ram air. once hood is closed, it lays on top filter.

The diff with original one is that I will see the sniper every time I'll open the hood

Should be enuff to make me forget my good old dual feed line with pressure gauge that has been on this engine forever. Loved that thing...

Not sure what I was thinking.... Was looking at the oil pressure sensor lol. Here's a picture of the temp sensor circled in green and the second spot in red. 



So guess I will, do as Don suggested and put the EFI sensor into the block and the temp into the water pump? And just making sure these holes are 3/8"s correct?

Thanks,

Adam

It will fit where that plug is no problem. The hole was actually for a temp controlled vac switch. My car has idiot lights but I added gauges and wanted to keep the lights functional so I moved my light sensor to that hole and installed my gauge sensor in the original spot.

 

[Don C]

Yes, they are both 3/8" pipe threads.

To answer the questions about putting the EFI sensor in the water pump, the temperature there is a little lower than the one into the block, and it will be more important to have the EFI computer read the correct temperature than to have the correct temperature sent to the gauge, which is a guesstimate anyway.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Where is you sensor located now? Kuz, I actually got the inverse question

I have the water temp next to pump as far as I can remember.

And dunno where else to relocate it...

For your hood clearance no prob, there is plenty of room, for me its just an arbitrary rotation issue that mismatches the new unit

top surface vs the old carb. (lines rotated not shown in pict) I saw since i posted I should be able get more than 1 cm correction without much efforts.

and keep the spacer. If I need more, I'll need to make/test with less high spacers. Also the unit is not bolted yet, so there are

2 gaskets that will be reduces in height and give me another 1 or 2 mm.

As a side note, there is another high flow air filter that you can't see in the ram air. once hood is closed, it lays on top filter.

The diff with original one is that I will see the sniper every time I'll open the hood

Should be enuff to make me forget my good old dual feed line with pressure gauge that has been on this engine forever. Loved that thing...

Not sure what I was thinking.... Was looking at the oil pressure sensor lol. Here's a picture of the temp sensor circled in green and the second spot in red. 



So guess I will, do as Don suggested and put the EFI sensor into the block and the temp into the water pump? And just making sure these holes are 3/8"s correct?

Thanks,

Adam

It will fit where that plug is no problem. The hole was actually for a temp controlled vac switch. My car has idiot lights but I added gauges and wanted to keep the lights functional so I moved my light sensor to that hole and installed my gauge sensor in the original spot.

Oh awesome good to know! Any idea how to get the plug out? I'm assuming I need to go buy a hex driver or something?

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Yes, they are both 3/8" pipe threads.

To answer the questions about putting the EFI sensor in the water pump, the temperature there is a little lower than the one into the block, and it will be more important to have the EFI computer read the correct temperature than to have the correct temperature sent to the gauge, which is a guesstimate anyway.

Great thank you for you help Don! Will put the EFI sensor into the block, and the temp gauge sensor into the water pump when I finally get the plug out

 

[jbojo]

Yes, they are both 3/8" pipe threads.

To answer the questions about putting the EFI sensor in the water pump, the temperature there is a little lower than the one into the block, and it will be more important to have the EFI computer read the correct temperature than to have the correct temperature sent to the gauge, which is a guesstimate anyway.

Great thank you for you help Don! Will put the EFI sensor into the block, and the temp gauge sensor into the water pump when I finally get the plug out

That is the way I have mine set up, the temp gauge in the car will read a little lower than before but it's its more important for the ECU to get an accurate engine temp reading.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Yes, they are both 3/8" pipe threads.

To answer the questions about putting the EFI sensor in the water pump, the temperature there is a little lower than the one into the block, and it will be more important to have the EFI computer read the correct temperature than to have the correct temperature sent to the gauge, which is a guesstimate anyway.

Great thank you for you help Don! Will put the EFI sensor into the block, and the temp gauge sensor into the water pump when I finally get the plug out

That is the way I have mine set up, the temp gauge in the car will read a little lower than before but it's its more important for the ECU to get an accurate engine temp reading.

Yea that makes sense, I will be taking that route as well!

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

Just about finished with mounting the PowerSurge (PS). I modified the old charcoal canister housing to hold the PS in place, then drilled a whole through the middle mounting assembly and put a peg there to keep the PS at the desired height away from the headers (this description is confusing, but I will release a video of it later on my YouTube channel). Anyways, it is looking good, plan on wrapping the PS with some heat tape and hopefully it will stay cool





PS: Ignore the shotty wiring in the second picture, just testing things out it is not permanent

 

[Fabrice]

First day install for me. Whole day for little..

As I clean, refresh paint where needed while busy, (after all its no rush).

So I've nicely swapped the ford water temp from block to pomp and installed unit sensor. Removed

all the brackets, the alternator, as I wanted be sure I wouldn't f.. the water pomp plug. As I saw it was

claiming his seat firmly from a first try with very low grip, I've opted for the longer safer way.

Once the proper space and tool were in place it came as butter. Cleaned up, repainted a bit the block and installed the sensor.

I did not regret the extra work as all is now looking fresh.

The main unit installed too, tho spend ages to find 4 stainless steel rings I knew I had somewhere to nicely secure

it on my previous studs, as the provided ones are of a lower quality.

Next was to set the throttle cable: bam! Not in line with unit, looked in kit and the brackets they provide are for any cars but Mustangs.

Pissed at Holley for not providing more suitable material, pushed on tomorrow's todo to fabricate/weld something that is in line.

Next as I was busy behind the unit: the Lokar cable for the kick down. As I need also to do the O2 sensor, exhaust needed go out.

so I could access the transmission. (no bridge to put the car on, its a jack stands story in a small garage).

Picked a location + angle for the o2 sensor while busy.

Removed the clip for the long Kick down bracket and tried install that dam cable... and then I was pissed at Lokar

because I dunno from which universe the FMX they show on their doc is, but thats not mine for sure. No way to install that dam cable.

They show this nice with nothing on side trans and say, remove first pan bolt and use it for the bracket, the cable goes where the clip

was... yeah right: Lokar ffs, your company does this things for years,so first why the hell the diameter of the hole is not correct.

K, cable off, measure, drill the hole a bit to right size, set to clip back and then...

second the way they describe the install can never be in line, as the level is like 7 cm away from pan: bam, another welding bracket

story added for tomorrow. Removed cable again, and swore a few times more at Lokar and went on...

As I've ordered a bung to weld the sensor vs use the clamped prone to leaks plate they provide, I welded the baby.

Taped and pressurised with compressed air and inspected with bright light. No leak detected so far I could test. Should be ok.

During welding of the bung, used a tip I've seen online: placed an old spark plug in bung. It indeed absorbed the heat nicely and once

the exhaust was set back on, the sensor went in with zero efforts, bung had kept a perfect circular shape.

And then the day was over, was time to eat and shower Realised I've forgot took picts too.

Did you have similar issues for the brackets?

Tomorrow I plan swear again at Holley and even more at Lokar till the work on the brackets is done. And then I might look at tank to

replace the vent cap by the sending unit I finally received yesterday... Was planning doing the wiring first, but nice weather is announced

so it will be like a day at the beach

 

[Don C]

I don't have Lokar cables on my car, but every time I've installed a different manifold or carburetor I've had to fabricate brackets. As far as I'm concerned that's just part of the "joy". Because the Lokar kickdown has to work as a pull and not as a push, as the OEM rod does, nothing that came with it or you already have will work.

 

[NewAgeMuscle]

First day install for me. Whole day for little..

As I clean, refresh paint where needed while busy, (after all its no rush).

So I've nicely swapped the ford water temp from block to pomp and installed unit sensor. Removed

all the brackets, the alternator, as I wanted be sure I wouldn't f.. the water pomp plug. As I saw it was

claiming his seat firmly from a first try with very low grip, I've opted for the longer safer way.

Once the proper space and tool were in place it came as butter. Cleaned up, repainted a bit the block and installed the sensor.

I did not regret the extra work as all is now looking fresh.

The main unit installed too, tho spend ages to find 4 stainless steel rings I knew I had somewhere to nicely secure

it on my previous studs, as the provided ones are of a lower quality.

Next was to set the throttle cable: bam! Not in line with unit, looked in kit and the brackets they provide are for any cars but Mustangs.

Pissed at Holley for not providing more suitable material, pushed on tomorrow's todo to fabricate/weld something that is in line.

Next as I was busy behind the unit: the Lokar cable for the kick down. As I need also to do the O2 sensor, exhaust needed go out.

so I could access the transmission. (no bridge to put the car on, its a jack stands story in a small garage).

Picked a location + angle for the o2 sensor while busy.

Removed the clip for the long Kick down bracket and tried install that dam cable...  and then I was pissed at Lokar

because I dunno from which universe the FMX they show on their doc is, but thats not mine for sure. No way to install that dam cable.

They show this nice with nothing on side trans and say, remove first pan bolt and use it for the bracket, the cable goes where the clip

was... yeah right: Lokar ffs, your company does this things for years,so first why the hell the diameter of the hole is not correct.

K, cable off, measure, drill the hole a bit to right size, set to clip back and then...

second the way they describe the install can never be in line, as the level is like 7 cm away from pan: bam, another welding bracket

story added for tomorrow. Removed cable again, and swore a few times more at Lokar and went on...

As I've ordered a bung to weld the sensor vs use the clamped prone to leaks plate they provide, I welded the baby.

Taped and pressurised with compressed air and inspected with bright light. No leak detected so far I could test. Should be ok.

During welding of the bung, used a tip I've seen online: placed an old spark plug in bung. It indeed absorbed the heat nicely and once

the exhaust was set back on, the sensor went in with zero efforts, bung had kept a perfect circular shape.

And then the day was over, was time to eat and shower Realised I've forgot took picts too.

Did you have similar issues for the brackets?

Tomorrow I plan swear again at Holley and even more at Lokar till the work on the brackets is done. And then I might look at tank to

replace the vent cap by the sending unit I finally received yesterday... Was planning doing the wiring first, but nice weather is announced

so it will be like a day at the beach

I also bought the FMX kickdown cable kit from Lokar, but haven't attempted it yet... Another thread on the site has some good info and pics from RCH71: https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-fmx-kickdown-rod?page=2

I will follow what he did, but if I'm having a hard time I might just resort to manually downshifting for awhile..

 

[Fabrice]

@Don C,

I have no prob making parts, so in that regard, I perfectly accept and enjoy.

What does piss me off is that a reknown specialist that does practically only cables, comes

with such ridiculous doc that leads to impropper install. Even more ridiculous is the provided bracket that fits zero fmx trans for any application.

If you look at the post Adam provided in his reply, which is the result of the install description, even a 5 years old sees the cable is not in line, too much cable exposed that will touch parts on tension, and most of all, its never gonna work properly as cable length never match the carb lever length to actuate. The center of the level rotation and end of lever are practically in line, so you get nothing and once there's loads of pull force, you got a some rotation and hope its enuff. Practically zero graduation unlike with the ford rod. I understand now why so many posted 'this lokar bitch is really hard to finetune'. So yeah, sorry to say, but to me, this is something Lokar could have fixed years ago. Even beter, I would preffered they provided some application drawings that are correct and say 'have fun making the bracket' vs claiming this is ok. Kus its ridiculously not ok.

K, nuff bitchin, I got some brackets to build