Mystery surrounding my engine and chassis serial numbers

[tony-muscle]

I decided to consolidate two separate posts where I have discussed the mystery surrounding the serial numbers stamps on my engine and chassis. Some of you may have read these posts already, but here I am trying to make sense of them.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-muscletang-mod-project-thread-1971-m-mach-1?pid=306814#pid306814

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-just-exactly-which-351-c-is-this-block?pid=307354#pid307354

Let's start first with the engine. The engine is a D0AE-L with a date code of OL17. The engine casting number matches the manufacturing date of November 17, 1970. According to my Marti report my car was built on December 7, 1970.



The engine serial number appears as 1?2193?7. The second digit "?" could be a six, which doesn't make sense (Mystery #1). The sixth digits looks like a "5" at first, but I think it is a "3". What makes it look like a "5" is the casting irregularities, but if you look at the shape and size of the bottom curve of the stamping it makes me think it is a "3" instead of a "5". Open to debate off course.... The seventh digit is missing (Mystery #2).





Then let's look at the chassis vin by the apron: "4T159317". In this one the car serial number matches, but the first digit is way off. Definitely not a 1974 apron! (Mystery #3) The "T" matches my car being a Metuchen.



So what I have is a chassis that matches my car pad tag, door sticker, Marti, and buck tag. I have an engine manufactured within a time frame that matches the car. However, the serial numbers in the engine don't make sense but somehow come close. Based on my interpretation of the engine serial number it is 2193?7 and the car's is 159317. That being said the engine matches a lot of digits. I would like to believe that based on the history of obvious mistakes this car has with number stamping that who knows if whoever stamped the engine made more mistakes. Obviously they skipped a digit and they seem to have screwed up the second digit as well. Does a serial number in the 200,000s make sense for a 1971 engine manufactured in November of 1970?

Were line workers in Metuchen allowed to drink before or on the job???  :chin: :chin: :chin:

And so...... that's the mystery!

 

[tony-muscle]

Looking at the numbers stamped in the engine you can clearly see that they were working at an angle. The bottom half of the numbers is deeper than the top half. Hence, whatever the second digit is, the top half was not stamped. The same with the sixth digit that I think it is a "3". The top half is missing due to the angle.

 

[Hemikiller]

Going to say the QC at Metuchen was more than a bit lax in this time frame. I think the guy stamping the engine had one too many Schlitzes for lunch, and the guy stamping the apron was out with him. My car is a December Metuchen built unit as well, 167656, and I found plenty of factory goof ups, worst being the spot weld the blew through right above the driver's torque box, letting water into the car since Day #1.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I do not know if they drank but they sure did smoke pot on the lines, lol.

Now this is a fact and our German members can back this up. At BMW in Germany there are beer holders on the machines, lol. They consider beer a food in Bavaria and allow them to drink at work as long as they do not get carried away.

We purchased a new press line from Germany. I was given the assignment of doing all the tryout of the first 5 sets of BMW dies that were coming in also. When the presses arrived a team of Germans came to install. I was to assist when they needed something. The first thing they did was go to the huge boxed steel columns for the presses and took a zip wheel and cut some welds on a steel plate and pulled the plate out. There were cases and cases of their favorite German beer packed inside the presses, lol. Germans are serious about their beer.

I think they did just screw up on your stamped info. I have no idea why they use single stamps when doing the block they are always all over the place. :shootself: 

BTW when doing a tour of one of the beer plants in U.S. one guy went by the hopper where the partially filled bottles went to reject and got one out opened it and drank it. I ask tour guide and again ok as long as they did not get carried away. This was in Florida at Bush Gardens.

 

[rackerm]

I decided to consolidate two separate posts where I have discussed the mystery surrounding the serial numbers stamps on my engine and chassis. Some of you may have read these posts already, but here I am trying to make sense of them.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-muscletang-mod-project-thread-1971-m-mach-1?pid=306814#pid306814

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-just-exactly-which-351-c-is-this-block?pid=307354#pid307354

Let's start first with the engine. The engine is a D0AE-L with a date code of OL17. The engine casting number matches the manufacturing date of November 17, 1970. According to my Marti report my car was built on December 7, 1970.



The engine serial number appears as 1?2193?7. The second digit "?" could be a six, which doesn't make sense (Mystery #1). The sixth digits looks like a "5" at first, but I think it is a "3". What makes it look like a "5" is the casting irregularities, but if you look at the shape and size of the bottom curve of the stamping it makes me think it is a "3" instead of a "5". Open to debate off course.... The seventh digit is missing (Mystery #2).





Then let's look at the chassis vin by the apron: "4T159317". In this one the car serial number matches, but the first digit is way off. Definitely not a 1974 apron! (Mystery #3) The "T" matches my car being a Metuchen.



So what I have is a chassis that matches my car pad tag, door sticker, Marti, and buck tag. I have an engine manufactured within a time frame that matches the car. However, the serial numbers in the engine don't make sense but somehow come close. Based on my interpretation of the engine serial number it is 2193?7 and the car's is 159317. That being said the engine matches a lot of digits. I would like to believe that based on the history of obvious mistakes this car has with number stamping that who knows if whoever stamped the engine made more mistakes. Obviously they skipped a digit and they seem to have screwed up the second digit as well. Does a serial number in the 200,000s make sense for a 1971 engine manufactured in November of 1970?

Were line workers in Metuchen allowed to drink before or on the job???  :chin: :chin: :chin:

And so...... that's the mystery!

Okay here is my theory.  The first digit is missing on the block (not really needed since the casting date is present). I've seen blocks with sloppy stampings and only six digit serial numbers. Most of the digits are lightly stamped on the top of them, making it hard to see a complete digit. So, with that said I visually see it as "162195 7", but using your cars VIN as the starting point it maybe......  ?T52193  7. A "T" for Metuchen and a sloppy double stamped "5" making it look like the lower part of a "6". Still does not match though. Sorry that lead us nowhere.

I grew up a town next to Metuchen and had a High school friend whose father worked at the plant. I know he was a meticulous guy and did not drink

Next. What does the other shock tower have for a VIN... the same? The 4 is very strange.

Rich

 

[rackerm]

AS far the serial number goes, I have sept 73 car with a 114xxx and a June 73 car with a 247xxx. So 15xxxx or 16xxxx sounds about right for dec.

 

[mjlan]

I'm assuming that the engine was serialized to the car during or around the time of its installation. I've seen many toploaders with a partial VIN (same as the engine- MY, Plant code then consecutive unit #); as your car is an M-code and should have a C6, is there a VIN stamped on the top of the trans case? I think that some have found these stampings, I just don't know where they are located...

Where I'm going is that if all of these numbers where stamped around the same time on the assembly line, it could be as simple as the guy working that station that day just really having a bad day...

 

[tony-muscle]

I'm assuming that the engine was serialized to the car during or around the time of its installation. I've seen many toploaders with a partial VIN (same as the engine- MY, Plant code then consecutive unit #); as your car is an M-code and should have a C6, is there a VIN stamped on the top of the trans case? I think that some have found these stampings, I just don't know where they are located...

Where I'm going is that if all of these numbers where stamped around the same time on the assembly line, it could be as simple as the guy working that station that day just really having a bad day...

I can't see any stamping on top of the C6. My transmission has been gone through at some time so I won't be surprised if it is not the original. The tail housing has a 1976 part number.

 

[tony-muscle]

It is unfortunate that I can't say for sure if the engine is a numbers matching. Doesn't really matter much in my case, but it would be nice. The engine build date makes it a period correct down to the month so that's probably good enough.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

That is where the automatics were stamped on top of the tail shaft near the mating surface. I will look for a picture of one of mine. Humm pics not on this computer. I know when I bought the cj I did check the numbers and trans did match the body.

 

[jeff8877]

That is where the automatics were stamped on top of the tail shaft near the mating surface. I will look for a picture of one of mine. Humm pics not on this computer. I know when I bought the cj I did check the numbers and trans did match the body.

Pic of C6 where the partial VIN is stamped...

 

[secluff]

Fortunately the numbers were stamped a little more legibly on the transmissions vs the hard to read half A$$ job done on the engines. Unfortunately the location made a  while in the car read almost impossible. On the C6 it was stamped on a flat area on the main housing right in front of where the tail shaft housing bolts up.

 

[tony-muscle]

Does anyone know what is this number stamped on the front of the block by the oil pan face? It is "111870"

 

[midlife]

That sure looks like a partial VIN to me, you too?

 

[rackerm]

I am thinking it is the engine assembly date. Normally I would expect to see a "0 L 18" for November rather than "11 18 70", but since the engine casting date is "0 L 17" November 17, 1970. I am guessing given the location and casting date, it is the assembly date of November 18, 1970.

 

[Hemikiller]

I am thinking it is the engine assembly date. Normally I would expect to see a "0 L 18" for November rather than "11 18 70", but since the engine casting date is "0 L 17" November 17, 1970. I am guessing given the location and casting date, it is the assembly date of November 18, 1970.

I'd buy that for a dollar...

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Hate to ask but is the block cracked from freezing right beside the oil pan rail? Sure looks like it in the picture.

 

[rackerm]

I am thinking it is the engine assembly date. Normally I would expect to see a "0 L 18" for November rather than "11 18 70", but since the engine casting date is "0 L 17" November 17, 1970. I am guessing given the location and casting date, it is the assembly date of November 18, 1970.

I'd buy that for a dollar...

Lol! And so would Bixby Snyder.

 

[Stanglover]

On the subject of block stamping.

On the two spare 351C blocks I had picked up and looking carefully at the stamping, my personal opinion, being a qualified machinist having stamped many parts with id & s/n numbers. I believe that blocks would be stamped at the time they were first put on the line prior to any machining. An unskilled or sloppy person would very likely NOT hold the punch square or hit it hard enough. This would definitely cause most of the up-swell of the number being machined off during the facing process, resulting in a hard to read s/n number.

(I got s**t many times at first when parts were surface ground and the numbers lost!)

As for the transmission, mine is a top-loader 4 speed and the matching number was stamped on the top of the front mounting flange, so it would be very easy for the guy on the line to match block and trans..... if he could read the block number that is!!

As for yours, who knows what it is, definitely a sloppy job. Good luck finding the truth.