New garage

[digithead]

I almost dont know where to start. I have decided at 58 I am going to spoil myself and build a garage to really work on stuff. I want a lift, I want a heated floor (I live in upstate NY with long winters). I have some land restrictions because I live in residential neighborhood and have zoning. My current "old garage" is on 24w x 19 deep. Its not worth fixing. I have the cash to do it right. Id like to tear it down and start over with poured concrete floor and the drive up to it will be concrete. I can do in floor radiant heat. Because of zoning, I will be lucky to get 24x24 when done or maybe 24W x 32 deep with a variance. But I am set on a lift of why bother. I have done lots of reading on all styles of lifts to get up to speed. The fact that I havent built garage gives me too many options to figure out where to start. So I'd like a 24' wide 2 car garage with a large or oversized single door. I envision a lift on one side, I dont care, left or right. To me, seems like a 4 post would offer up advantage of having a larger car collection as you can park one on top and drive under it. What advice would you give if theres limitation on say 24' wide (zoning) and a lift?  So I need high side walls correct? Instead of standard 8' I need 12? I dont even mind that if its so high I get storage over the top. I am basically looking at wood frame construction with white vinyl siding so it matches my house, and metal roofing. Its Northeast NY so high pitch roof is good for snow load.

I really dont know how to design it to start. I looked at prefab metal kits but I want to heat this too and with all metal construction I am wondering about insulation etc.  I know and trust the brain trust here much more then I do general contractors. You guys get it when it comes to working on cars.

 

[c9zx]

I'll start by saying GOOD FOR YOU! If you can spare the money, why not. If not now, when? Life is a short ride. The zoning restrictions sound ridiculously restrictive to me. I'd pursue the largest variance you can get and secure that before finalizing any plans. I used a 5 inch pour, 4000lb. concrete with steel reinforcement. I'm sure there is a way to do that with the radiant heat. You do need 11" 5" walls as a minimum, 15' would give a loft above if desired. If you use 10' or more on the walls, I'd use 2"x6" exterior wall studs. You could do a"high and low" staggered ceiling height and have useable space above on part of the garage. For the single large door make sure the reinforcement is over built and extends laterally way beyond the opening to prevent any sagging in the middle of the door opening. Don't skimp on insulation and air infiltration prevention. Use low-e glass for the windows even if it is an aluminum framed window. Plan on a 200 AMP box with surge suppression as well as at least 2 or 3 240VAC outlets for a large compressor, welder, and a possible AC unit (it makes working in the summer months pleasant). At a minimum plan on a couple of fans to move some air. Don't skimp on lighting, you'll be retrofitting later if you do (ask me how I know).

As far as a lift, if I had to choose a single lift it would be a 4 post drive on. With a sliding jack tray, a bottle jack, appropriate jack stands, and the smallest floor jack you can find, you can do almost anything. The two post, swivel arm lifts take up to much width space and requires careful attention to weight and balance. Spend the time researching and planning the build, it will pay off when completed. Happy building. Chuck

 

[keiths71]

If your building code will allow you to use rafters instead of trusses you can gain ceiling height. Also plan ahead for footers if need them for your lift. I'm in a similar place. At 58 I tore down my 25 year workshop and built a new house where it was. Now moved in but not starting on the detached garage untill my 71 is finished. You may also look into a tray or vaulted ceiling. Depending on your house 12' walls may look out of proportion to it. I was wanting to turn the old house into a garage. That idea didn't fly!

 

[digithead]

I'll start by saying GOOD FOR YOU! If you can spare the money, why not. If not now, when? Life is a short ride. The zoning restrictions sound ridiculously restrictive to me. I'd pursue the largest variance you can get and secure that before finalizing any plans. I used a 5 inch pour, 4000lb. concrete with steel reinforcement. I'm sure there is a way to do that with the radiant heat. You do need 11" 5" walls as a minimum, 15' would give a loft above if desired. If you use 10' or more on the walls, I'd use 2"x6" exterior wall studs. You could do a"high and low" staggered ceiling height and have useable space above on part of the garage. For the single large door make sure the reinforcement is over built and extends laterally way beyond the opening to prevent any sagging in the middle of the door opening. Don't skimp on insulation and air infiltration prevention. Use low-e glass for the windows even if it is an aluminum framed window. Plan on a 200 AMP box with surge suppression as well as at least 2 or 3 240VAC outlets for a large compressor, welder, and a possible AC unit (it makes working in the summer months pleasant). At a minimum plan on a couple of fans to move some air. Don't skimp on lighting, you'll be retrofitting later if you do (ask me how I know).

As far as a lift, if I had to choose a single lift it would be a 4 post drive on. With a sliding jack tray, a bottle jack, appropriate jack stands, and the smallest floor jack you can find, you can do almost anything. The two post, swivel arm lifts take up to much width space and requires careful attention to weight and balance. Spend the time researching and planning the build, it will pay off when completed. Happy building. Chuck

Thats so much Chuck! I will print this off and talk it over with the builders. You are spot, I have spent my whole life saving up money and I realized I am not having any fun with it, might as well spend it on something i enjoy.

 

[Vinnie]

Indeed, good on ya for building your garage! Why wait?

Good luck!

 

[detritusmaximus]

In case you haven't seen this site:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/

 

[Hemikiller]

Go for the 24X32 if you can swing it. 24x24 is almost too small to be serious about working on a vehicle and storing a car. A friend's is 22X34 and it's a great size. 32 deep would even allow a normal 2 door front or large single, and a roll up side entrance door in the rear.

 

[delawarebill]

i totally agree and build the biggest code will allow. and ck with coding folks before u dive in.. here in northern delaware we have a stupid law. 1 1/2 ac land build as high as u want. over 1 1/2 ac u can only build as tall as your house. i have a ranch and 2+ ac and was floored when the code guy told me of size. so i did a 24x40ft with a 12x14 attached shed to store heavy gear in. mine is a pole bld and it cost "total" 10k about 10 yrs ago

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Have been typing for 45 min. and boom message just went away. I will do again tomorrow in word document so it does not go away. I did 4,000 sq. ft. at 68 years so you are ahead of me.

Wish I had done 5,000. So look for tomorrow. I prefer 2 post lift but understand when space is tight how the 4 post helps. I see a four post as something you park your car on so you can jack it up, lol. If space is tight put in a pit with a cover much easier and less cost. How many oil change places do you see with lifts?

Will get lots of info tomorrow. Here are a couple of pics during build.

Cheers,

 

[Don C]

When I built mine, the biggest I could go was 24x30, with 8-foot walls. Strange zoning requirements. The set-backs are based on wall heights and to go any taller would have required me to have larger set-backs from the side and back property lines, which would have put it too close to the house, for future plans with our lot. The 24x30 size is nice, though. Plenty of room in the front and back of the car for working on it, pulling the engine, and so on.

I put in one 30 amp 240 volt outlet and one 20 volt 240 volt outlet, and 120 volt outlets every 10 feet, 3.5 feet above the floor. Three rows of 4-foot florescent lights, six 2-tube fixtures in each row, one down the center and the other two are 2-feet from the side walls.

 

[bkdunha]

Congrats on making plans to build the shop you want.  Do all of your zoning research first and then get the largest variance you could possibly want.  I currently have a 36x28 and it is not big enough.  When it was built in 2003 the plan was for a lift that I finally purchased in January 2018.  Whats 15 year ( a long d*!@ time).  I would render up several drawings with all the feedback you are getting.  You will need these to apply for your variance as well as it helps put things on paper the way you want them.  I would also agree with Chuck on the 4 post. They offer a lot of flexibility on what you can do with them.  My ceiling is 18 foot above the lift.  

[attachment=47803]

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Here is a summary of what I did. Would go larger if were doing over.

The following is how I planned out the build of my 50’ X 80’ 18’ eve with 3 in 12 pitch roof. We do get snow but never seen over 3 feet. If you go with steep pitch you have to install the snow slide preventers and add cost. They keep from tearing the gutters off and burying someone, lol.

I spent several months of planning out my garage. I went to Google earth and printed out a view of my property. I did a scale layout of the footprint of the garage.

I then went to the site and staked it out for outside dimensions. I kept drawings of the layout done on graph paper to scale. I cut full scale rectangles of black plastic to use as dummy cars in the layout. I positioned the garage doors and location of the 2 post lift to verify they worked.

I went to the supplier of the lift and got all the info on the lift so I would know how far away from the wall I needed to be so I had no interference issues.

I did layout for all of the electrical, overhead LED lights, outside automatic LED flood lights and where I would install outlets.

One thing I see people do that does not make sense is to put dozens even a hundred outlets in a garage. I put quite a few along my 14’ long work bench area and put four on a stand pipe beside the 2 post lift. I have several outlets in the work room and some scattered in the garage. I also put two outside. Why have all those outlets that are potential fire starters. I also installed all the outlets with the ground prong up. That way a flying wire brush bristle cannot go in and lay across the neutral and hot of the plug.

I ran plastic conduit under my slab to go across the building to the opposite side, to the work room and to the two post lift. There is an outlet for wire welder in the work room and beside the lift.

I could see no reason to heat a 4,000 sq. ft. garage to allow one person to work. I built a workroom 16’ X 26’ with 105” long studs to work in saving a bunch on bills. I installed LED vapor proof lights in the workroom and mounted them on 45 deg. angle to get the best feed of light. I put the lights in using outlets to plug them in so I only use what I need, can be one or can be 8. The outlets are controlled by two switches one for each side and end.

I used 2”X12” ceiling joists for the room ceiling that allows me to put 7/16” OSB on that and use the 400 + sq. ft. for storage of parts and stuff. Foot of insulation  overhead. Used the left over from the building and scraps.

When I went to the building permit office I was told that I could not have a garage that size in my zone which is residential only no business. I told them it was not a business just my private garage.  After some convincing they agreed to the permit. I wish I had gone 5,000 sq. ft.. I also got permit for a bathroom and septic system that will allow me to add an apartment if I want to later and rent out my home. Rent here is stupid high. They are currently planning a community of over 100 rental only homes ½ mile from me and a one bedroom rents for $5,000 a month. All the plumbing and windows are located to allow for bath, kitchen, bedroom and living area of 1,000 sq. ft.

One of my biggest costs was the prep of the building site. Had to have fill dirt brought in and took I think 14 more loads that estimated at $100 a load. I think the total for dirt, packing, septic and site prep was $14,000.

I wanted to do a stick built building with a second story for apartment but the cost to do the required fire barrier between garage ceiling and floor of apartment was too much. I chose 4 different Red Iron building suppliers and sent them my layouts and specifications. I did not use their windows and garage doors they are poor quality and they just buy and mark up anyway. I did have the frame in all the doors and window openings. They did offer foam insulated personal entry doors so I put those in the building. I extended the overhang on the front of the building 3 feet which makes the building look much better and gives you shelter from rain when entering.

I did all of my own plumbing, electrical and carpentry. I passed every inspection the first pass and do not see why anyone cannot do their own unless your area does not permit it.

On my electrical supply I went on the heavy side with a 400 amp meter base with dual 200 amp feeds to two 200 amp breaker boxes. Can never run out of power. Ran 3” conduit underground to get by all my water lines and drain lines for the gutters. When power came they did not have to get near the building to install wires.

I got I think 4 quotes from each supplier and went with Inland buildings. I kept making small changes and beating them up on price. I used the straight columns not tapered and got for same price usually higher cost. Also the representative for Inland in my area does install and that worked great. He never had to come back and redo anything and been in the building two years and never a leak and no floor cracks.

The foundation for the building was done with a two stage pour, footings first then the slab. The footings were 2’ deep and 2’ wide and 4’ X 4’ at each column. When they came to do the slab there was 4” of small gravel down this prevents putting holes in plastic when walking on the gravel when doing the pour. There was two rows of rebar in the footings and V shaped bent rebar going from each column out into the floor. Where the two post lift mounted the concrete was 1’ thick. A little note on concrete. If you have a 4” slab and want to make it twice as strong you only have to go to 5”. Sounds odd but that is the rule. They cut a 10’ grid of expansion joints and I kept the slab watered to keep cool during cure.

The total cost for my steel building to be delivered to my door with two 14’ X 14’ garage door openings. 3 3’ personal doors and 11 window framed openings was $32,000 and that included 6” of fiberglass insulation in roof and walls. When all in I was in the $84,000 for everything done and finished.

When I built the work room I used a 6” plate and sill. I staggered 2X4 studs on 24” centers so there is a stud every 12 inches but the inside wall does not touch outside wall. The best insulation value you can get and does not transmit sound. So I have six inches of insulation of two walls and 12” on two walls that are against the steel building walls. I went to Habitat for Humanity and they had tile for $40 to cover the work room and vinyl baseboard in Ford blue for $10 so I put that in also. There is a 3’ personal entry door and 8’ door for vehicle entry. My rotisserie fits in well. Not a working shop just a hobby shop so does not have to be the best.

On the lift I chose a Danmar asymetrical 2 post for couple reasons. They shipped for free and had three year warranty and have been through all the XXXX testing. Some lifts have not been tested and you can find video on the net showing them failing when they do test them. I put it up by myself with no issue. I stood the columns up using engine lift. You have to align the two columns using chalk line to within 1/16” and anchor with 8 - ¾” concrete bolts. They do make portable 2 post lifts for lower ceilings also. I see a 4 post lift as a elevated floor that you jack your car up on after you lift it. Too much extra work! Only reason to have one is for stacking by no means are they user friendly. If you are putting a car on a lift you are either going to work on wheels, brakes or something under the car. A 2 post offers the most access with least effort. 4 post you have to lift it up them move jack pads around and lift one corner of the vehicle again to be able to work on it. Then the ramps are in your way all the time.

You might consider a pit in the floor. Most all oil change shops just have pits they are faster than 2 or 4 post lift and little cost. You can make a cover to close it off when not using. I use my two post lift when washing and waxing car to put in ideal height.

All of my wiring is done one gauge larger that code required and the inspector said I did a much better job than most. He and she was shocked that they found not one thing in carpentry, electric or plumbing not to code. They usually find code violations in the Professional work, lol. Actually had 4 different inspectors make visits no issues with any.

Would I do it again U bet. Would I do it earlier in life, U bet. I went to China and worked for a year to make the money to come home buy my home place from my two sisters and build the garage. Also purchased several cars and China paid for it all, lol.

My windows are vinyl foam core filled with insulated glass with UV fliter. Bath area and kitchen area are safety glass. The panel garage doors are foam filled with no windows. I did not put sky lights in either they tend to sweat and drip moisture. I did put to louvered eve vents 3’ square one on each end. They do open and close so in winter closed.

The last two winters we had days and nights in single digits. I had house plants in the garage and only had an 1800 watt electric heater and it stayed in the 40’s and plants lived. I can heat the work room with a light bulb, lol. I bought a propane heater but never put it in. I did use a propane space heater some also. All of my lights are LED and did not go overboard in the main are of garage. I just store there and do little work. Why light it up like the sun when one person is working in one little area. That is what drop lights are for.

I do not have moisture issues at all. I have had vehicles sitting in there for two years with bare steel and no rust. I run parts through the molasses tank, wash them and rub down with phosphate and no rust.

In areas where I will be working and moving stuff around I put up a 4’ high 2X4 frame and put 7/16” OSB sheeting on it to protect the insulation and outside metal.

The 14’ X 14’ garaged doors are foam filled and have rubber seals all around and very tight. You can open with one finger.

There is a Facebook page that is Garages and Man Caves. There are some on there the go crazy with man caves. One just did the in floor heating with foam insulation under that. Some do spray foam insulation.

I had to keep telling myself I am 68, or was when building the garage. How long does this thing have to last and will not be a worry for me, lol. I go to back surgeon at 2:00 today to see what he can do with worn out back.

I have brake lathe, hydraulic press, Henrob welder, Lincoln wire welder, 80 gallon 2 stage compressor and all the tools to do anything just can’t do it now with back out. Have all the cars, parts and everything to build 10 projects but they will never get done. Going to attempt to finish the 72 Q code vert and a 65 A code 4 speed vert and sell the others. Looks like MOM Mustang Owner’s Museum is going to take the 73 Mach 1 with 32 options and 12,200 miles to put in museum. They asked for more pics and will let me know this month. If they don’t one of the owners of NPD wants it. For sure you can’t take it with you and my son has no interest in them.

So at your age build the garage even if it is one bay and you have to work under jack stands do it. My work and my family took most of my life from me and if I could go back would have gone different direction with work. Would have done a body shop for sure. Insurance pays you or you do not let the car go and state gives it to you after one year. Hind sight is 20 / 20 for sure.

If you have any specific questions ask away and I will give you what I know.

 

[BeerDontCount]

I agree with Hemikiller on size. I built a two car garage, 24 deep by 30 wide and I really like it. I have benches on both sides, and plenty of room to swing those huge doors open without worrying about hitting anything.

Scott

 

[NOT A T5]

A pit...don't forget to build a pit! With lots of lighting!

 

[Spike Morelli]

I believe my 2 car garage is 25' deep, and at least that wide, likely a bit wider. I car put two drag boats in there side-by-side, leaving a walkway between them and the workbenches. All messy grinding or cutting gets done behind the garage on an 8'x25 foot concrete slab, that the rear door goes out to. there's a ton of storage in steel cabinets, overhead shelving and two sheds out back. It does get cramped sometimes. With good weather, I can roll one boat out to work on the other. Still, it's not bad, but I could use more.



walt whitman a child said what is the grass

 

[Ed Raver]

As a General Contractor, I do metal buildings and houses for a living. My own metal garage building is 40 x 60 and I knew before it was completed that it was too small. The rule of thumb that I discuss with my clients is that you cannot build them too big. Generally works out that way as well. When you purchase a metal structure, compare weight not price. That goes to quality and durability. I also agree with the 4 post lift, at least for me. Ed Raver in New Mexico

 

[SVO2SCJ]

if you build an indoor NCAA half court you get a 12 car garage under it!