Re-visiting 3 point seat belt conversions.

[Stanglover]

@bdennis 

Here are a few more pic that may help. As you can see, the old system is really a lap belt with a shoulder belt that clips in to the buckle tang.  Also, while not as clear as I'd like, the rear belts showing the star burst insert. This is what the front ones would look like. Pic 1746 is the hook that the shoulder belt would hang on to when not in use. There was also a steel spring loop that was clipped into the headliner, but it's been removed on my car. Maybe someone else can post a pic of that.

Other pics are; the new 6" anchor bolt cover sleeve and I tried the semi-ridged sleeve on the drop sash, but I did not like it at all, better to have this flexible as it puts a twist on the belt and makes it harder to reach the tang to pull the belt over the shoulder....... especially with f'd up shoulders!! 

PS. I forgot to mention, you'll need a T 50 torx socket for the anchor bolts.

 

[bdennis]

Geoff,

Thanks for the pics, They are really helpful. I will take some more of mine and share.

 

[Stanglover]

Geoff,

Thanks for the pics, They are really helpful. I will take some more of mine and share.

Only too happy to help out. That's what this Forum is all about, helping and sharing.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

There are two completely different types of belts. You have to pay more to get the better ones. Here is screen shot of sticker showing the cost of the deluxe belts. You got the hard sleeves with them.  Deluxe belts were $15.49

 

[Stanglover]

There are two completely different types of belts. You have to pay more to get the better ones. Here is screen shot of sticker showing the cost of the deluxe belts. You got the hard sleeves with them.  Deluxe belts were $15.49 View attachment 50198

Thanks for that information David. On my current car, I'm surprised it even came with wheels, it's so low optioned. I took a look at the pics of my former 72's, both had deluxe interiors, but I don't see any difference in the seat belts, so I was not aware of the deluxe option.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

Yes they were in addition to gettting Mach 1 sports interior or deluxe in vert or coupe.

 

[bdennis]

Guys,

Im still on a quest to figure out why the drivers seat belt in my 7/72 Mach 1 is different to all the others.

I have taken a heap more pictures and found a video that explains the differences. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reUlxy7Vr48)

Basically all belts other than the shoulder belts still have date tags on them.

The back seat buckles have Code S 225 and a date code of M2572 The retractor lap belts in the back have the same code.

The front passenger side has a code of R551 and a date code of 2672

The front drivers side has a code of R511 and a date code of 2071. Both the buckle and the lap belt match in terms of code and date.

The driver side is a star burst and the rest of the wreath square button.

Looking at the front retractor, the passenger side has the larger one with the round hole and cap/ plug. It also has the fasten seat belt wire connected to the real. The driver side is smaller and does not have the wire attached. Per the video this seems to be a 1970/71 version. The lap buckle it self on the drivers side is a different size to the passenger side and will not plug in. Again, I think the driver side lap section has been changed at some point.

Also of note the 2 shoulder straps are exactly the same and I believe have not been changed. These both appear to have been brown / ginger where as the rest of the lap belts, and buckles in both types are black.

I suspect that the rear seat has hardly been sat in as the belts and labels are in great condition.

I would be interested to be able to decode the dates on the belts as in the 2572, 2672 and the 2071 dates. Obviously they are either 72 or 71. But would be interested to know if the 2572 and 2672 are pre July when the car was built.

Also of interest the 2 rubber bushes that are on the shoulder straps are still intact and while they look brittle, they still work and hold the strap in place in the buckle.

Does anyone have a late 72 car with the wreath buckles and tags still in place?

Given these lap belts are probably fairly hard to find and I need to replace the belts in the car to be Australian compliant. I'm a bit loathed to pull the belts apart and use the hardware to get them re made with Australian compliant materials. 

Unless I get them to reuse the tags that are on them.. I would also like to find a correct lap belt and buckle with the wreath on them and the square button to replace the odd one in the car..

Thoughts??

Regards

Brendan  

 

[Stanglover]

Hi Brendan,

To me, your belts are a mystery. The belts I have are not the originals to my car, date code totally wrong, but I do know from talking to a PO that they did come out of another 71 Mach 1 he had. All including the back seat belts are the same 7-71. From that I have little doubt my belts are correct in style. What I do see is different manufacturers, so that may account for the difference in date code style or even the buckles. On mine, it is clearly 7-71, July 71 that is and the manufacturer is Hamill MFG.Co.  Neither of the retractors have tags on them. 

Looking at the pictures I have of the 2 '72's I've owned, I don't have any that show the belts in any detail, so that's no help. I'm wondering if some other 72 owners could step up and assist.  They could be simply month/day/year.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

If you had standard interior with ginger I believe you got black std. belts. Also your steering column would be black. If you got Mach 1 sports interior you got ginger belts and ginger column. Then you could to got the deluxe belts another jump up.

 

[bdennis]

Geoff, thanks for the info. All a mystery.

David,

My Mach1 has the standard trim package. So it has the black steering column, black crash pad and glove box. Ginger vertical plastic either side of the radio. A ginger std 2 spoke wheel and the std ginger door trims with ginger carpet.

Its interesting that the passenger and drivers shoulder belts are faded brown but the rest are black.

There is no uplift on the belts to deluxe per the Marti report.

All interesting stuff.

I appreciate the help.

 

[Bentworker]

I wanted to give an update on my seatbelt planet order.  
 

Don’t order the universal 3 point 301 style belts like I did.  The retractor and the fixed end of the belt cannot be nested on top of one another (they need to on a Mustang).  They make a different set called the DF13 that is designed for the fixed end of the belt and the retractor end of the belt to nest on top of each other and be secured by one bolt.  Also noteworthy is that 110” was too short, not allowing you to lean forward to the wheel.
 

The 8” shoulder extension was pretty cool.  It lowered shoulder belt to a much more comfortable location.

I have reached out to seatbelt planet to see if they would make me up a DF13 set, but with the 8” shoulder extension.  Also to see if they have a slip tongue instead of the grip tongue which runs into the shoulder loop and keeps the retractor from retracting all the way.

I’ll update when I get to trying seatbelt planet version 2.0

 

[Stanglover]

I wanted to give an update on my seatbelt planet order.  
 

Don’t order the universal 3 point 301 style belts like I did.  The retractor and the fixed end of the belt cannot be nested on top of one another (they need to on a Mustang).  They make a different set called the DF13 that is designed for the fixed end of the belt and the retractor end of the belt to nest on top of each other and be secured by one bolt.  Also noteworthy is that 110” was too short, not allowing you to lean forward to the wheel.
 

The 8” shoulder extension was pretty cool.  It lowered shoulder belt to a much more comfortable location.

I have reached out to seatbelt planet to see if they would make me up a DF13 set, but with the 8” shoulder extension.  Also to see if they have a slip tongue instead of the grip tongue which runs into the shoulder loop and keeps the retractor from retracting all the way.

I’ll update when I get to trying seatbelt planet version 2.0

View attachment 51086

Great info there Bentworker. I like the 8" drop sash better as it looks much more "finished" the the one Seatbelt Solutions/Wesco sell. I was pretty disappointed with that part of it. I also would have liked a "slip tongue (or tang)" option just like most cars do today. It would be far easier to get ahold of to put the belt on. With bad shoulders, I find it hard to reach back to get the tang. I did try the sleeves that Seatbelt Planet sell as a cover for the drop sash, but I wasted my money. The center buckle strap bolt covers were worth buying however as I picture before. 

Wouldn't it be nice if someone actually made a 3 point belt set that fit and work right for our cars, whichever model one has.

 

[giantpune]

Is there a factory point somewhere for the shoulder belt to connect to?  I don't see one.  Hopefully its hiding under the trim.

 

[Stanglover]

Is there a factory point somewhere for the shoulder belt to connect to?  I don't see one.  Hopefully its hiding under the trim.

What model Mustang? 

Perhaps I may suggest going to your profile and add just a few details on your ride.

 

[tony-muscle]

Great info there Bentworker. I like the 8" drop sash better as it looks much more "finished" the the one Seatbelt Solutions/Wesco sell. I was pretty disappointed with that part of it. I also would have liked a "slip tongue (or tang)" option just like most cars do today. It would be far easier to get ahold of to put the belt on. With bad shoulders, I find it hard to reach back to get the tang. I did try the sleeves that Seatbelt Planet sell as a cover for the drop sash, but I wasted my money. The center buckle strap bolt covers were worth buying however as I picture before. 

Wouldn't it be nice if someone actually made a 3 point belt set that fit and work right for our cars, whichever model one has.

Can you post a link to pictures of the "slip tongue" you guys are talking about. I don't seem to picture how these look like?

 

[giantpune]

What model Mustang? 

Perhaps I may suggest going to your profile and add just a few details on your ride.

Its a '73 mach 1.  It has factory lap belts and they have an extra little bend and a slot in them like you could attach an optional shoulder seat belt somehow.

 

[Bentworker]

Can you post a link to pictures of the "slip tongue" you guys are talking about. I don't seem to picture how these look like?

I don't have a picture handy, but what I mean by it is the tongue that is used in modern cars.  The type that is 100% free to slide along the belt, but typically there is some sort of plastic clip or sewn in "Z" in the fabric to keep it from falling below your reach when the seatbelt isn't worn.  You get in, clip the belt in and the tensioner pulls the belt across your lap and chest free of slack because it is free to slide through the tongue.

The retrofit belts 3 point from Seatbelt Planet use some sort of "grip" style tongue that you have to pull on the shoulder strap to tighten the cross lap section of the belt.  It is very similar to an old lap belt.  If you switch drivers, clothing or seat position you have to loosen or tighten the grip tongue so that you lap belt section is correct.

 

[tony-muscle]

I don't have a picture handy, but what I mean by it is the tongue that is used in modern cars.  The type that is 100% free to slide along the belt, but typically there is some sort of plastic clip or sewn in "Z" in the fabric to keep it from falling below your reach when the seatbelt isn't worn.  You get in, clip the belt in and the tensioner pulls the belt across your lap and chest free of slack because it is free to slide through the tongue.

The retrofit belts 3 point from Seatbelt Planet use some sort of "grip" style tongue that you have to pull on the shoulder strap to tighten the cross lap section of the belt.  It is very similar to an old lap belt.  If you switch drivers, clothing or seat position you have to loosen or tighten the grip tongue so that you lap belt section is correct.

Got it and I agree. Mine are the same, unfortunately. 

 

[Stanglover]

I don't have a picture handy, but what I mean by it is the tongue that is used in modern cars.  The type that is 100% free to slide along the belt, but typically there is some sort of plastic clip or sewn in "Z" in the fabric to keep it from falling below your reach when the seatbelt isn't worn.  You get in, clip the belt in and the tensioner pulls the belt across your lap and chest free of slack because it is free to slide through the tongue.

The retrofit belts 3 point from Seatbelt Planet use some sort of "grip" style tongue that you have to pull on the shoulder strap to tighten the cross lap section of the belt.  It is very similar to an old lap belt.  If you switch drivers, clothing or seat position you have to loosen or tighten the grip tongue so that you lap belt section is correct.

A good explanation.

On my VW seat belts, there is a little button through the webbing to stop the tongue or "tang" from sliding too far down. It is very easy for me to reach and use. Wouldn't it be nice if these aftermarket manufacturers just do what the industry is doing. My Seatbelt Solution 3 point also have that grip type tang or tongue or whatever one wants to call it. It's a PITA for sure and hard to reach with a bad right shoulder to reach over and get ahold of.

EDIT:  To help explain, this is what the aftermarket seat belt manufacturers ought to be doing for the tongue/tang thingy. Here are a couple of pics of my VW seat belt tongue thingy. The button is seen to stop the thingy falling all the way to the retractor.

 

[Stanglover]

Its a '73 mach 1.  It has factory lap belts and they have an extra little bend and a slot in them like you could attach an optional shoulder seat belt somehow.

Thanks for clarifying your car. If you only have lap belts, then someone has removed the shoulder belts (for the front seats), which attaches to the lap belt at the slot in the tongue/tang. There is a mount up by the quarter window. You can see this if you scroll back through this thread as it is on my 71 Mach 1.

Lots of pictures posted. Look at P2, April 9 for close up of what I think you're talking about.