What did you do to your car today?

[AcesArneson]

Are you running a HV pump? What about oil? What viscosity were you running on the dyno?

I had a whole response written but decided it might generate controversy, but suffice it to say that I believe the 2v vs 4v overhead oil retention will be very similar, all else being equal.

I am ok with controversy, I think that is why we all come here, that's how we learn.
Yes it has a high volume oil pump.
I am not sure on the oil, I wasn't there but the invoice has 30W break-in oil listed.
The suggestion on the larger pan came from the engine builder when he was running the Dyno. I am running the Edelbrock 61629 aftermarket heads with 2V style ports. I am seriously thinking I should have had them ported and port matched to the intake however, the valve covers are pretty tall to accommodate for the .621 and .624 valve lift so I am thinking I am likely holding a lot more oil in the valve cover than anticipated. The high volume pump is likely pumping it out faster than it can drain down even though I had him add the main bearing restriction suggested by many hallowed 351C rebuilders on bearing #1. Like Spike Morelli said, I am probably over thinking it.

 

[AcesArneson]

I intend to do something like this, as well. I'd like to find a way to incorporate a decent sized screen for a backup camera. I don't think my eyes are good enough for a smaller screen. One option might be a rear view mirror cam...but I'd rather just leave the RVM off of the windshield. I took mine off years ago and it's still in the glovebox.

How do you see the cops with no RVM?

 

[Steve McMahan]

I intend to do something like this, as well. I'd like to find a way to incorporate a decent sized screen for a backup camera. I don't think my eyes are good enough for a smaller screen. One option might be a rear view mirror cam...but I'd rather just leave the RVM off of the windshield. I took mine off years ago and it's still in the glovebox.

I know from looking around that only a single Din unit will fit into the stock space. That said, if you don’t have the three gauge setup, you have more room to expand your choices, but complexity increases significantly. I remember Seeing a single Din with a foldout and tilt screen, but I didn’t look very long, as you can see by my pic, I’m using a late 1980’s floor shifter, which moves it even closer than stock. A member here, TheDude, was very helpful and generous with his time in my making the selection. Good luck.

 

[72MustangSprint]

Gutted interior, getting it ready for road trip to Ponies in the Smokies

 

[basstrix]

I know from looking around that only a single Din unit will fit into the stock space. That said, if you don’t have the three gauge setup, you have more room to expand your choices, but complexity increases significantly. I remember Seeing a single Din with a foldout and tilt screen, but I didn’t look very long, as you can see by my pic, I’m using a late 1980’s floor shifter, which moves it even closer than stock. A member here, TheDude, was very helpful and generous with his time in my making the selection. Good luck.

That fold-out screen is what I had envisioned. I have a ??? DIN in my truck that has a flip out DVD player...figured they had something similar with a bigger screen. I just did a quick search. My fortune teller sees one of them in my future.

 

[HeavyCoupe]

How's this for paint the hood springs?

Beautiful.

Oh boy, look what showed up yesterday! Piece number 1 of 4 for swapping the Sherman Army Tank front bumper out to a 71-72 style, paintable.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one keeping my '73 bumper. I understand, but let me tell a story. I was 16 at a local gas station. I backed up too far and jumped a curb with my rear tire. It landed on my shock bolt suspending my tire in the air, rendering my open diff useless. For whatever reason I didn't get in the car as dude pulled me off the curb and my car rolled into his hitch. My huge rubber bumper took it like a champ, you can't even see the crack in the paint farther than three feet away. Anyway, there's my story no one asked for.

 

[Steve McMahan]

I’m keeping my 73 bumper on as well. It’s the only thing keeping the front wheels on the ground, with this gnarly 125hp motor.

 

[Stanglover]

I am ok with controversy, I think that is why we all come here, that's how we learn.
Yes it has a high volume oil pump.
I am not sure on the oil, I wasn't there but the invoice has 30W break-in oil listed.
The suggestion on the larger pan came from the engine builder when he was running the Dyno. I am running the Edelbrock 61629 aftermarket heads with 2V style ports. I am seriously thinking I should have had them ported and port matched to the intake however, the valve covers are pretty tall to accommodate for the .621 and .624 valve lift so I am thinking I am likely holding a lot more oil in the valve cover than anticipated. The high volume pump is likely pumping it out faster than it can drain down even though I had him add the main bearing restriction suggested by many hallowed 351C rebuilders on bearing #1. Like Spike Morelli said, I am probably over thinking it.

Jumping in here, but from my own costly experience, loose the high volume oil pump asap. They are not needed unless there has been a lot of rework done.
Back in 2012 when my engine had to be rebuilt, the builder, well experienced with Cleveland's decided to put in a HVP I think he just happened to have on the shelf as well as a set of flat topped 11:1 pistons. To cut tot he chase, within a short time, the hvp took out the first lobes on the cam and the debris took out the mains and almost wrecked my engine. The oil was just blowing by the first lobes so they got little oil. The pump pressure had apparently been set. The shop rebuilt the motor under warranty, but cost me a lot of time and extra money to get rid of the flat top pistons that were causing spark knock due to our crappy fuel these days. I dropped to 10:1 dish top pistons and was then able to stop the knocking.

 

[Stanglover]

As for "what did I do to my car today" Nothing!! It's got too damn cold again here.

 

[AcesArneson]

Beautiful.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one keeping my '73 bumper. I understand, but let me tell a story. I was 16 at a local gas station. I backed up too far and jumped a curb with my rear tire. It landed on my shock bolt suspending my tire in the air, rendering my open diff useless. For whatever reason I didn't get in the car as dude pulled me off the curb and my car rolled into his hitch. My huge rubber bumper took it like a champ, you can't even see the crack in the paint farther than three feet away. Anyway, there's my story no one asked for.

Pros and cons to everything we look at. My '73 bumper was already toast from some scratches that were never repaired, so I was half way there anyway. I am hoping the total of all of the weight I have pulled off will pay dividends in handling. We'll see when I get it on the road.

 

[AcesArneson]

Jumping in here, but from my own costly experience, loose the high volume oil pump asap. They are not needed unless there has been a lot of rework done.
Back in 2012 when my engine had to be rebuilt, the builder, well experienced with Cleveland's decided to put in a HVP I think he just happened to have on the shelf as well as a set of flat topped 11:1 pistons. To cut tot he chase, within a short time, the hvp took out the first lobes on the cam and the debris took out the mains and almost wrecked my engine. The oil was just blowing by the first lobes so they got little oil. The pump pressure had apparently been set. The shop rebuilt the motor under warranty, but cost me a lot of time and extra money to get rid of the flat top pistons that were causing spark knock due to our crappy fuel these days. I dropped to 10:1 dish top pistons and was then able to stop the knocking.

Thanks for the feedback, I can check out the wear if I decide to pull the heads off for port matching. Reading through the 351 Cleveland rebuild manual, the author George Reid, who consulted with several Cleveland experts including Trent Goodwin from Comp Cams and Tim Meyer of Tmeyer Corp., suggests that for anything over a 350hp rebuild you should go with a HV pump. The caveat is that you also need to ensure you complete other modifications like restricting oil to the cam by installing the reducer pipe in the mains and blueprinting your pump to make sure it meets factory spec clearances.

 

[Stanglover]

Thanks for the feedback, I can check out the wear if I decide to pull the heads off for port matching. Reading through the 351 Cleveland rebuild manual, the author George Reid, who consulted with several Cleveland experts including Trent Goodwin from Comp Cams and Tim Meyer of Tmeyer Corp., suggests that for anything over a 350hp rebuild you should go with a HV pump. The caveat is that you also need to ensure you complete other modifications like restricting oil to the cam by installing the reducer pipe in the mains and blueprinting your pump to make sure it meets factory spec clearances.

That is also what I learned. Probably without a restrictor, is the reason why the oil apparently pissed past the first cam lobes wiping them out in short order.
Most of us who don't build high hp, modified engines, do not need nor should use a HV pump. My pretty much stock motor with a recurved distributor and just a 670 cfm carb, can get me into as much trouble as a guy can want.
Anybody want a good (if you can call it that) HV Melling oil pump, you know where to find me.

 

[basstrix]

Thanks for the feedback, I can check out the wear if I decide to pull the heads off for port matching. Reading through the 351 Cleveland rebuild manual, the author George Reid, who consulted with several Cleveland experts including Trent Goodwin from Comp Cams and Tim Meyer of Tmeyer Corp., suggests that for anything over a 350hp rebuild you should go with a HV pump. The caveat is that you also need to ensure you complete other modifications like restricting oil to the cam by installing the reducer pipe in the mains and blueprinting your pump to make sure it meets factory spec clearances.

Below is a response directly from T Meyer related to a 408 build I'm working using his kit. The context is for an engine with a 7000 RPM upper limit. T's response in red...highlights are from my email search. He may have changed his stance since the writings you referred to.

 

[73pony]

Below is a response directly from T Meyer related to a 408 build I'm working using his kit. The context is for an engine with a 7000 RPM upper limit. T's response in red...highlights are from my email search. He may have changed his stance since the writings you referred to.

View attachment 86801

That is the exact same info I got from T as well when doing my 408 build.

 

[AcesArneson]

Below is a response directly from T Meyer related to a 408 build I'm working using his kit. The context is for an engine with a 7000 RPM upper limit. T's response in red...highlights are from my email search. He may have changed his stance since the writings you referred to.

Below is a response directly from T Meyer related to a 408 build I'm working using his kit. The context is for an engine with a 7000 RPM upper limit. T's response in red...highlights are from my email search. He may have changed his stance since the writings you referred to.

View attachment 86801

No that’s correct. Anything over 7000 rpm should have HV but even more importantly Tmeyer restricts cam flow with a reducer plug. At least that’s what I read in his preferred oil modification in the Cleveland book. I just looked the publication date and it is 2013, so maybe some new info.

 

[basstrix]

This is one of T's cam bearings. They act similar to a restrictor in the galley feeding the cam off the main bearing. Oil flows through the groove on the OD of the bearing and into the slot. The slot gets clocked in the optimum position for oil wedge against the cam journal.

 

[72MustangSprint]

Gutted interior, getting it ready for road trip to Ponies in the Smokies

hoopty detailed

 

[Spike Morelli]

That is also what I learned. Probably without a restrictor, is the reason why the oil apparently pissed past the first cam lobes wiping them out in short order.
Most of us who don't build high hp, modified engines, do not need nor should use a HV pump. My pretty much stock motor with a recurved distributor and just a 670 cfm carb, can get me into as much trouble as a guy can want.
Anybody want a good (if you can call it that) HV Melling oil pump, you know where to find me.

I think maybe there was another issue involved with your wiped out cam lobes. The reason I say this, is because on the FE big blocks with solid lifters, those blocks came factory with NO oil holes to the lifters, they are completely lubricated by oil being thrown at them from underneath, from the rods. knowing that fact, same goes for your 351c, your cam should have had sufficient oil for sure being thrown at the lobes, and hydraulic lifter bleed off. I'm in no position to know exactly what happened with your cam , but ??? From personal experience , I can tell you that I've been running an HV pump for many, many years. I have talked about this in another entry somewhere on these forums, the issue I had, was shearing the stock distributor gear roll pin, more than once. The third time it happened I decided to remedy the roll pin situation for good ( details are elsewhere in that discussion). Well, as I've posted, it's been 34 years of everyday driving and towing and no other bad side effects of running the HV pump. Cold, the oil pressure on my SW mechanical guage goes right up to 70 psi, where the pump by-pass blows open to hold it there, and hot idle is 30 psi, off idle to driving speeds are about 60 hot. I use a 30w Racing Valvoline non-synthetic. Though honestly, I wouldn't reccommend a HV pump for the majority of us. Had I been aware of the added load the HV pump puts on the stock dist gear, I would never have used it. MY new build is in fact, using a stock volume oil pump. I have bushed my lifter bores and restricted the cam journal feeds , which should deliver more oil to the mains, and rods, which are at .0025rods, .0025 mains . ( That's 2 and one-half thousanths, not 25 thousanths) .Stock pan and pick-up.

 

[Stanglover]

I think maybe there was another issue involved with your wiped out cam lobes. The reason I say this, is because on the FE big blocks with solid lifters, those blocks came factory with NO oil holes to the lifters, they are completely lubricated by oil being thrown at them from underneath, from the rods. knowing that fact, same goes for your 351c, your cam should have had sufficient oil for sure being thrown at the lobes, and hydraulic lifter bleed off. I'm in no position to know exactly what happened with your cam , but ??? From personal experience , I can tell you that I've been running an HV pump for many, many years. I have talked about this in another entry somewhere on these forums, the issue I had, was shearing the stock distributor gear roll pin, more than once. The third time it happened I decided to remedy the roll pin situation for good ( details are elsewhere in that discussion). Well, as I've posted, it's been 34 years of everyday driving and towing and no other bad side effects of running the HV pump. Cold, the oil pressure on my SW mechanical guage goes right up to 70 psi, where the pump by-pass blows open to hold it there, and hot idle is 30 psi, off idle to driving speeds are about 60 hot. I use a 30w Racing Valvoline non-synthetic. Though honestly, I wouldn't reccommend a HV pump for the majority of us. Had I been aware of the added load the HV pump puts on the stock dist gear, I would never have used it. MY new build is in fact, using a stock volume oil pump. I have bushed my lifter bores and restricted the cam journal feeds , which should deliver more oil to the mains, and rods, which are at .0025rods, .0025 mains . ( That's 2 and one-half thousanths, not 25 thousanths) .Stock pan and pick-up.

Spike, I appreciate your far greater knowledge on these motors. My knowledge of what happened to my engine reflects what the builder told me after the fact. So that is what I based my comments on, right or wrong.
There is one part of these cars I have not actually done myself and that is build my own motor and the one thing I'd love to do. Where I live, Cleveland's are all but impossible to find now and when one does pop up, they're expensive to start with let alone rebuild costs.
Thanks for you knowledge and input, we all appreciate it.

 

[steves73]

Spike, I appreciate your far greater knowledge on these motors. My knowledge of what happened to my engine reflects what the builder told me after the fact. So that is what I based my comments on, right or wrong.
There is one part of these cars I have not actually done myself and that is build my own motor and the one thing I'd love to do. Where I live, Cleveland's are all but impossible to find now and when one does pop up, they're expensive to start with let alone rebuild costs.
Thanks for you knowledge and input, we all appreciate it.

Facebook market has more Cleveland stuff right now in Ontario than I expected.