351 engine tear down

[Manu Mach1]

Hi everyone,

Any idea of what rod bearings should I choose to replace those ones? (standard).

Thank you.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I have been out of the rebuilding so long I cannot suggest a brand. Some of the guys that are in it now can give better info. There is so many parts being made off shore to the U.S. you never know what you are going to get.

Your machine shop will need to tell you what under size you will need to grind the crank. It will probably be .010 inch under size but they need to tell you. They should put the main bearings in the block and rods torque them down and measure installed same with the rods. Everything has tolerance in manufacturing so they might be off a .0005". It is not a requirement but it insures there will be no tight or loose bearings.

I could have gotten two 351 engines the other day but both were 2 bolt mains and I already have a couple of them for spares. I did take a great set of closed chamber heads off one of them.

How is everything else going have not seen many posts lately. It has got cold here finally so I have been polishing stainless and putting things on eBay.

David

 

[Manu Mach1]

I don't spend to much time in the garage those days, busy to try to find a new job, plus the temperature went down, I hate to work in the cold, even if I used to work by -20 celsius in east Europe.

So the shop might, after grinding and tight everything up, using plastigage I guess.

I found a shop close to my place, I'll bring the crankshaft and the heads as well, some valve guides has too much play, I want to replace them by some copper one, and I want that they install some hard seat to the exaust valves.

 

[Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs]

I don't spend to much time in the garage those days, busy to try to find a new job, plus the temperature went down, I hate to work in the cold, even if I used to work by -20 celsius in east Europe.

So the shop might, after grinding and tight everything up, using plastigage I guess.

I found a shop close to my place, I'll bring the crankshaft and the heads as well, some valve guides has too much play, I want to replace them by some copper one, and I want that they install some hard seat to the exaust valves.

The plastigage only tells you the gap that does not insure it is correct. If they measure the bearings in place they can grind the crank to fit with proper clearance and no need for plastigage.

Good luck on the job search and stay warm.

David

 

[Don C]

Clevite and Sealed Power bearings seem to be maintaining their reputations, so if need new bearings I would go with one of them.

Your distributor gear probably is new. The old one may be what messed up your cam, or got destroyed when your cam was damaged.

 

[Manu Mach1]

So first the machinist need to measure the crankshaft, rod and main (it's now standard size), then grind it. As you said above David, I should need to find 0,010 inch under (rod and main).

Ok Don C, should be what happend to the camshaft. But what I can tell you is that I spent a while to remove the the distributor from the block, it was like "welded", corrosion plus all the dirt.

Need also camshaft bearings. What cam should I take?

 

[secluff]

Your cam with the "BV" marking is actually the D2ZZ-6250-B CJ cam. The timing for these cams were retarded 4 degrees, but you can use a multi indexed crank gear to advance the cam. The Clevite bearings suggested by Don C are my bearings of choice. Ford thought enough of Clevite 77 bearings to use them in the Boss 351 and 351 CJ engines through 1974 when 351C production ended in the US. Looks like you are on the way to a good build. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask. A lot of people here have been through many 351 rebuilds and have a lot of knowledge to share. Good luck!

 

[Manu Mach1]

Questions? I have questions, enough to block the flow of the Mississipi

I have lot of parts to make a good rebuilt engine, and don't have the choice to order the wrong ones.

I have already the Cloyes timing set multi indexed.

I need push rods, hydraulic lifters, camshaft, rod and main bearings, pistons and rings, I have FEL-PRO FS8347PT engine kit, need valley pan.

 

[barnett468]

Questions? I have questions, enough to block the flow of the Mississipi

I have lot of parts to make a good rebuilt engine, and don't have the choice to order the wrong ones.

I have already the Cloyes timing set multi indexed.

I need push rods, hydraulic lifters, camshaft, rod and main bearings, pistons and rings, I have FEL-PRO FS8347PT engine kit, need valley pan.

well if you tell us what you want, we will suggest, we exactly what parts we think will best suit your needs.

for instance, for a near stock rebuild, you do not need $500.00 forged pistons or moly pistons rings etc.

either speed pro piston in the link below are fine.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/pistons/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-cleveland

these rings in the size you need are fine.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-e-251x30/overview/

.

 

[Manu Mach1]

A near stock rebuilt is what I want, no need performance parts as to me there are enough power as original. Just the fact to play with the timing set and set to 0° instead of the 4° retarded will give a little bit of more power.

Anyway, I want a reliable car, street driveable, could be my daily driver.

 

[4Vforever]

As for your Pistons, a set of cast will be fine for your application, but if you want to spend a bit more a set of hypers are even better, as Barnett said no need for forged Pistons, as they'd be overkill for your engine. As for pushrods, if you're not using guide plates which you aren't, just a standard type from mellings or sealed power are fine. As for cam and lifters, it comes down to personal preference, but it's the old adage, ask 10 different people which cam you should use and get 10 different answers. Depends on what you want to spend also, do you want to shell out extra for a Crane or Comp or similar or just one of stage 1 or 2 grinds from Elgin or Sealed Power etc (nothing wrong with them) You will also want to check your rockers and fulcrums to see if they can be reused, as well as your valves, but valve guides, springs, retainers and collets should be replaced. Oil pump, pick up and drive from Mellings will be fine. Also a set of freeze and gallery plugs will be needed. Firstly you will need your machinist to measure everything so they can tell you what sizes you're going to need before you order anything, realistically you should even have the crank ground before ordering bearings, as I've personally measured cranks thinking they will grind to a certain size, only to get an mark in them ground at that size, then having to grind it down to the next size (sucks even more when it's on the last journal) That way you can order exactly the parts you want at the sizes you need. Also search around a bit more as there are sellers out there with complete rebuild kits with everything you need and usually works out cheaper than buying parts one by one.

Good luck with it all and remember there are many people on here only too willing to help. Keep us all informed.

 

[Manu Mach1]

Thank you very much to all of you, I need help and is what I find here

So first machinist shop, then I will come back with all sizes to be able to order all parts.

Will come back soon.

 

[Manu Mach1]

I come back from the shop. There they can't grind the crankshaft (it will be done somewhere else). But they can take care of the heads. At the same time I will show them the block to measure the cylinder bore and the "cylindricity" <---- might not be very english...

So, I need to order exaust valves, valves guides (bronze I guess?), springs, I have already a set of rocker arm (COMP Cams 1232).

I will appreciate if you can give me some references.

Thanks.

 

[barnett468]

are you building a performance engine?

will you drive it every day?

you do not need bronze guides, cast iron ones are fine.

check cylinders for "eccentricity" and taper

your english is just fine.

 

[4Vforever]

Ok so before ordering valves, is your 4V a 73 model because if so it more than likely has the 2V valves installed, so you'll need to find this out first. Also here is a link to Alex parts who have parts you're after. A few guys over here use this stuff in mild engines with no dramas, so for yours being basically standard would be no problem at all. If your engine has the 2V valves then a full set of their valves is what will be needed, the better thing about them is they're stainless plus they're single groove. If you have 4V valves (shouldn't if it's a 73) they are out of stock on them at this time. As you'll see they have everything you need for your top end, valves, springs with collets and retainers in a set, valve guides, pushrods and cylinder head dowels. Unfortunately they have no part numbers, so I ticked what I think will suit your needs, just don't know if they'll show up on posted link. Maybe just message them with the parts you need and they should be able to help you out, if your heads do have 4V valves ask them when they'll be in stock. You seem to be going in the right direction with everything and doing it all properly, so all the best and keep us posted.

http://www.alexsparts.com/categories/FORD-351-CLEVELAND/

 

[barnett468]

.

all 351 cleveland closed chamber heads have 2.19 and 1.71 valves

 

[Manu Mach1]

I want to rebuilt this engine not for performance, just as close as it came.

The machinist will check all cylinders.

I sent a mail to Alex's parts cause it will be an international order, that's the procedure.

My valves are same as 2V's (4V open chambers). Is it better single grooves valves than multi grooves I originally have? If so, why?

Also, about the valve springs, there is another spring inside, the new ones will be different? (I mean not double spring).

The machinist will make himself the hard exaust seats.

 

[4Vforever]

I want to rebuilt this engine not for performance, just as close as it came.

The machinist will check all cylinders.

I sent a mail to Alex's parts cause it will be an international order, that's the procedure.

My valves are same as 2V's (4V open chambers). Is it better single grooves valves than multi grooves I originally have? If so, why?

Also, about the valve springs, there is another spring inside, the new ones will be different? (I mean not double spring).

The machinist will make himself the hard exaust seats.

As I said earlier, with your build being basically standard a set of cast Pistons will be fine for your engine, but for a few dollars more a set of hypers are even better. Go with a set of flat tops also, that way you'll get a bit more compression, which will be better for performance and economy. You won't have to worry about the compression being too high either, even with flat tops and a bit milled off the block decks and the heads.

I thought your engine was a 73, that's why I wanted to make sure it had 2V valves fitted (which it does) so going to a stainless single groove valve set up is a good upgrade, especially at the prices for these parts. Also I've never seen a multi groove valve made in stainless, not that you really need them, but for the price you can't go pass them. The difference between the two collet types is, a multi groove valve the collets don't actually clamp to the valve itself, so the valve will "turn" The theory behind it is for the valve turns when running so heat and wear is more evenly distributed. If you grab a couple of collets and a valve, put the collets into the grooves and you'll be able to spin the valve in them. As for single groove collets they're positive clamping type, which means they actually clamp to the valve itself.

The springs you need for your application should only be a single spring with a wound dampner. The dampner is not actually a spring itself, it's a flat piece of steel that does what the name says, dampen the load of the spring under compression, but a lot of people think that they are dual springs. If I had a dollar for everyone whose said they have dual or even triple (dual springs with a dampner) valve springs, I'd be richer for it, lol.

Your definitely heading in the right direction with your build, so keep with it and if unsure of something, keep asking questions as people on here are only too happy to help you through this and offer their advise.

 

[barnett468]

My valves are same as 2V's (4V open chambers).

I thought you said you have closed chamber heads . . I must have been thinking of a different thread.

Hi everyone,

Any idea of what rod bearings should I choose to replace those ones? (standard).

Thank you.

ok, i use H series crank and rod bearings . . the H crank bearings will provide way more oil to your rod bearings and crank.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cle-ms1010h10/overview/make/ford

in your case, i would not use H series rod bearings because they are narrower than the standard bearings.

if you can feel any marks/grooves on your crank, you must regrind it . . if it is good, you can have it polished . . if it ends up slightly smaller than stock, you ca buy bearings that are .005" thinner so they will fit a journal that is .001" smaller than stock.

CAMS

For a cam similar to stock, the first 2 on page 7 will be close . . the second cam will have a slightly higher operating range.

http://cranecams.com.au/pdfs/blueracer_guidesheet_9-9-10.pdf

.

 

[Manu Mach1]

Very good, I start to see better (and today the sun is shining, maybe a sign).

First about the cam, from the PDF link, I should choose the third one page 7, it gives the same as the factory one.

About that I found something, can help other people:

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/4181021846

So can be a cam from Melling (SYB 29), Clevite, Sealed Power (CS650), Lunati (11104), or even Elgin as mentionned above, with the Elgin HL 1900.

I was thinking were double springs, I read somewhere triple springs for racing, but this is another story.

Now waiting for Alex 'x parts for the quotation.

Merci mes amis.