Bojo's 73 Project

[jbojo]

2/17/14

So I removed the intake manifold and I found cylinders 4 and 8 intake port areas full of fuel. The car is sitting at a slight up angle so that's why only those two were affected. Luckily I decided to check this as if I had tried to start the motor fuel would have just poured into those two cylinders. As a precaution I am going to replace the oil too as I don't if its been diluted with gas now, probably not but not going to take any chances. Looks like next weekend is when I try to start it now. Before I do though I am going to try it with the throttle body removed and make sure that the injectors are not pouring fuel again.

-jbojo

 

[jbojo]

2/18/14

Got all the old gasket material off the heads and manifold today so its looking like I'll be reinstalling the intake again tomorrow.

On another note I have to correct what I said previously about the tach verification feature of the MSD ignition. I was able to verify that it was indeed on and what happens is that when you turn the ignition on the tach sweeps to the rev limit that you set. My tach went to 6000 rpm and stayed there for about 3 to 4 seconds. Since I was checking for fuel leaks I cycled the ignition several times so that caused the flooding. The injectors thought that the motor was at 6000 rpm for each of the 3 to 4 second periods. When I disabled the tach verification the tach remained at zero when the ignition was on.

The only issue I have is that this is not described by MSD in the instructions. I did find this as an addendum doc on their site though but it was too late.

-jbojo

 

[droptop73]

2/17/14

So I removed the intake manifold and I found cylinders 4 and 8 intake port areas full of fuel. The car is sitting at a slight up angle so that's why only those two were affected. Luckily I decided to check this as if I had tried to start the motor fuel would have just poured into those two cylinders. As a precaution I am going to replace the oil too as I don't if its been diluted with gas now, probably not but not going to take any chances. Looks like next weekend is when I try to start it now. Before I do though I am going to try it with the throttle body removed and make sure that the injectors are not pouring fuel again.

-jbojo

I would recommend removing the spark plugs and squirting some engine oil in the cylinders. It would not be good to crank the engine over with dry or washed cylinders either.

 

[jbojo]

2/17/14

So I removed the intake manifold and I found cylinders 4 and 8 intake port areas full of fuel. The car is sitting at a slight up angle so that's why only those two were affected. Luckily I decided to check this as if I had tried to start the motor fuel would have just poured into those two cylinders. As a precaution I am going to replace the oil too as I don't if its been diluted with gas now, probably not but not going to take any chances. Looks like next weekend is when I try to start it now. Before I do though I am going to try it with the throttle body removed and make sure that the injectors are not pouring fuel again.

-jbojo

Jeff,

You read my mind. I planed to remove the plugs and do this just in case the cylinders has gas in them. Thx for the heads up.

-jbojo

 

[hyena429]

2/17/14

So I removed the intake manifold and I found cylinders 4 and 8 intake port areas full of fuel. The car is sitting at a slight up angle so that's why only those two were affected. Luckily I decided to check this as if I had tried to start the motor fuel would have just poured into those two cylinders. As a precaution I am going to replace the oil too as I don't if its been diluted with gas now, probably not but not going to take any chances. Looks like next weekend is when I try to start it now. Before I do though I am going to try it with the throttle body removed and make sure that the injectors are not pouring fuel again.

-jbojo

Jeff,

You read my mind. I planed to remove the plugs and do this just in case the cylinders has gas in them. Thx for the heads up.

-jbojo

{thumbs up} Yup....Your EFI dumping fuel at 6000 rpm could be alot of gas hidding in there...Hopefully not thou.

 

[MechEng]

I'll be curious to see how you like that EFI system once you get it running. A decent number of options out there now it seems

 

[Jeff73Mach1]

While you have the intake off, you can add oil to each cylinder through the intake port. Just use a little oil can and squirt a shot into each intake as far as you can reach. those that are closed will dump the oil when you turn the engine over.

 

[jbojo]

Thanks guys!!!

Unfortunately I have already put the intake back on before I saw your replies.

Mike, Looks like around Saturday when I'll be trying to start now.

MechEng, yeah there are a lot of efi systems available now. I chose the MSD system because it allows you to wire it up so that the computer will also control the engine timing. All you have to do is lockout the advance in the distributor and replace the rotor with an adjustable one and retard it 15 degrees. Set the engine to 15 degrees before TDC and enable the timing in the computer. From there you can program your timing for total advance at the rpm you want this to occur and the computer will optimize it for you as the engine runs.

Jeff all the valves are closed right now because the lifters have pumped down. I am removing all the plugs and am going to blow air in each cylinder to make sure there isn't any gas in them. I have a hand pump style oiler so I am going to give each cylinder a couple of squirts of oil before I put the plug back in. I wish I saw your post before I put the manifold back on, it would have been much easier.

Appreciate all the help guys. I am paranoid about the first start that is coming up. After that the rest of the project show go fairly quickly.

-jbojo

 

[jbojo]

2/22/14

Tried to start the car today but just couldn't get it to fire. The MSD ignition doesn't want to fire the plugs. I tried shorting the magnetic pickup leads and got the spark. Pull the distributor and rotated the gear and the coil was working properly. If I put the distributor back on it doesn't fire properly. Also have no tach output from the ignition box. Tried 2 ignition boxes that I had, a 6A and 6AL with the same results. If anyone has experience with this and has any ideas I'd appreciate your help.

thx

-jbojo

 

[RacerX]

Sounds like the pickup coil in the distributor is bad, especially since you shorted the leads and got fire.

 

[jbojo]

Sounds like the pickup coil in the distributor is bad, especially since you shorted the leads and got fire.

I have two distributors and both have the same results. I am going to measure the pickup today. MSD says it should be 500 -700 ohms resistance. Man this has me stumped right now. Going to redo all the wiring again today in case I made an error somewhere.

Anyone using an 6AL? If you are when you turn on the ignition does the red light come on and stay on until you crank the motor? Mine comes on and flashes about 5 times and then goes off. The 6A the light comes on and stays on.

RacerX thanks for your help. I was reading last night on the MSD forum where they mention to ground the dizzy. Do you know anything about that?

-jbojo

 

[RacerX]

It shouldn't depend on a ground although the distributor body is grounded thru the engine block. For grins try adding a direct ground to the body of the distributor. My money says it won't change.

Try disconnecting the tach wire and see if you get fire then. Make sure no popped fuses or bad fusible links.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[jbojo]

It shouldn't depend on a ground although the distributor body is grounded thru the engine block. For grins try adding a direct ground to the body of the distributor. My money says it won't change.

Try disconnecting the tach wire and see if you get fire then. Make sure no popped fuses or bad fusible links.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Thx I'll check that. Problem is that I need the tach signal from the ignition box to trigger the efi system. his really has me stumped.

-jbojo

 

[RacerX]

Just disconnect it to see if you get any spark.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[jbojo]

Just disconnect it to see if you get any spark.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Thx, I am heading out to try your suggestions and measure the resistance on the dizzy. I'll get back with the findings.

-jbojo

 

[jbojo]

So no go on this. Here is what I have done so far.

I have 2 distributors, both are MSD pn 8580. When I test the pick up I get around 570 ohms from both so that tells me that they are good.

Tested both the 6A and 6AL control box for spark by jumping the pick up leads as specified by MSD and they have spark.

Next I tried a dizzy off the motor with everything connected. When I spin the gear on the distributor the spark plug fires. I only have one plug connected. When I tried this with them all connected I got a backfire through the manifold. This seems to be working.

Issue is the motor won't start when everything is installed. Also the EFI hand control shows no rpm when cranking with both ignition systems. This would cause the injectors to not fire so no fuel. The EFI does squirt fuel on startup so I would expect the motor should at least try to start.

Just for kicks I also did checks with the coil. The readings were 0.5 ohms between the + and - connections and 5.1 k ohms between the output of the coil and the + and - connectors. The fact that I got the spark plug to fire ruled out the coil anyway. I also got zapped one time and I can attest that the coil is working.

Does anyone know how to verify if the tach signal from the MSD unit is working? With power on it shows about 0.2v.

RacerX, with tach input disconnected it still does not work.

Tomorrow I'll me calling MSD but hoping someone here knows what is going on.

thx

-jbojo

 

[RacerX]

So to clarify, you have spark. Fuel flow is questionable and so is timing. Do you have tdc marked and the distributor indexed properly pointing to #1?

Firing order correct for your camshaft ? Then squirting some fuel into the throttle body you should get it to try and kick over. Valves aren't too tight causing no compression?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[jbojo]

So to clarify, you have spark. Fuel flow is questionable and so is timing. Do you have tdc marked and the distributor indexed properly pointing to #1?

Firing order correct for your camshaft ? Then squirting some fuel into the throttle body you should get it to try and kick over. Valves aren't too tight causing no compression?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Yeah, every thing is set for cyl #1. Set to fire at about 12 BTDC. Firing order has been doubled checked and is correct. I have roller rockers and the instructions said to take out the play on the pushrods when the lifters were on the base of the cam and then 1/2 additional turn on the nut. This pushed the plungers in the lifters down about 1/8 of an inch or less. Probably just enough to not get the tapping sound when the motor is running.

What do you think that the gap should be for the spark plugs for a 10:1 compression?

thx again

-jbojo

 

[RacerX]

Plug gap is usually .035" , with the MSD you can probably open it up to .045" or .050"

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[jbojo]

Thx for all your help. Tomorrow I will talk to MSD and will try to start it again. I have also been thinking of slapping an a carb, get it running and then get the EFI working.

-jbojo