LS swap?

[downwardspiral]

Not even trolling, has anyone done an LS swap? I know it's sacrilegious, but it's a good, plentiful and compact mostly aluminum engine.  I'm weighing my engine options before I start spending money, and I don't want to go the modular route because I don't want to hack up the shock towers and spend money on coilovers.

 

[c9zx]

It is a good engine but you should consider the total cost of the swap, trans, custom headers, driveshaft, carb conversion or custom fuel system for efi etc. If you are concerned with re-sale value the conversion is a loser, in my opinion. Then again, I'm one of those guys who hates seeing a SBC in a 1932 Ford or a Pontiac Firebird or a LS in fox body. I've always chalked it up to lack of knowledge and or judgement.

Chuck

 

[73pony]

It is a good engine but you should consider the total cost of the swap, trans, custom headers, driveshaft, carb conversion or custom fuel system for efi etc. If you are concerned with re-sale value the conversion is a loser, in my opinion. Then again, I'm one of those guys who hates seeing a SBC in a 1932 Ford or a Pontiac Firebird or a LS in fox body. I've always chalked it up to lack of knowledge and or judgement.

Chuck

+1

 

[Don C]

It is a good engine but you should consider the total cost of the swap, trans, custom headers, driveshaft, carb conversion or custom fuel system for efi etc. If you are concerned with re-sale value the conversion is a loser, in my opinion. Then again, I'm one of those guys who hates seeing a SBC in a 1932 Ford or a Pontiac Firebird or a LS in fox body. I've always chalked it up to lack of knowledge and or judgement.

Chuck

+1. There are plenty of Windsor blocks available, aluminum heads, intakes, and other power goodies. You can save another 90 pounds by getting an aluminum block.

Back when I was monitoring the Pony Express 90 race in Nevada, you should have heard the bow-tie boys howl when a guy showed up with a 428 FE powered Camaro. I figured turnabout was fair play  :whistling:

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'd thought about making a comment to the effect of having to reconsider your membership... but then I remembered we have a member in Europe swapping in a Jaguar drive train, and it's going really well (but at least Ford has a stake in Jaguar, if I remember right :whistling: )

But - why not?  Could be cool.  At the end of the day, it's the Mustang sheet metal that most people will ever see anyway, so as long as you don't plaster Chevy emblems everywhere, I supposed we could let it slide...

... just this once, though.

rofl

 

[Luke]

This is my thoughts. LS cheap easy HP they fit in everything. However I tend to look at them as exactly that disposable hp, hang a turbo or a blower on a stocko LS make 1200-1600hp spank it's arse for 2000kms then go to the wreckers and repeat. A well built clevo or even a Windsor would have more of a sense of achievement and owner pride to me in a mustang and last for years. A cranky high winding clevo will certainly get your nuts clacking.

I am a chevy guy if I was going LS it would be a Lsx454r or better still Sb2. However at the end of the day your car your choice

 

[RacerX]

Blasphemy!

No chevy in a FORD!

 

[clevelandcoupe]

No chevy in a FORD !!!!

+1

 

[Bentworker]

Personally I think the LS swap could be neat. It is a great engine. From a practicality, cost and resale standpoint it is probably a bad idea. But if you can do it with no hacking or beating I see it as a harmless way to have a reliable injected engine. I would love to see it done, and see all the of the posts as the project went along.

 

[will e]

haha, I thought I was on my Jeep board. The LS swap is kind of popular with the FSJ crowd. Jeeps that look like this:



Both easier and more complicated in an old Jeep. Easier because some companies make things like engine mounts, more complicated because of the transfer case and front/rear drive shafts.

I keep talking myself out of it for the jeep. The expense just isn't worth it since the Jeep runs fine now and I just don't drive it much. An LS swap would allow me to easily run an OD transmission. I would also gain fuel injection (which is good for Jeeps that you take off road) and of course horse power.

But in the Jeep world when going off road reliability is key. The LS engine is reliable but all of the custom engineering to make it work isn't. Simple things like routing the wiring can cause issues. So at this time I am still keeping it simple. And it's kind of fun to run with the new rigs while sporting a 71 Jav engine and a carb.

So back to the question about the mustang. I wouldn't do it. Not because of any blasphamy but because of cost. I think there are other options that would keep the cost lower but give similar results.

 

[downwardspiral]

It is a good engine but you should consider the total cost of the swap, trans, custom headers, driveshaft, carb conversion or custom fuel system for efi etc. If you are concerned with re-sale value the conversion is a loser, in my opinion. Then again, I'm one of those guys who hates seeing a SBC in a 1932 Ford or a Pontiac Firebird or a LS in fox body. I've always chalked it up to lack of knowledge and or judgement.

Chuck

It is a good engine but you should consider the total cost of the swap, trans, custom headers, driveshaft, carb conversion or custom fuel system for efi etc. If you are concerned with re-sale value the conversion is a loser, in my opinion. Then again, I'm one of those guys who hates seeing a SBC in a 1932 Ford or a Pontiac Firebird or a LS in fox body. I've always chalked it up to lack of knowledge and or judgement.

Chuck

+1. There are plenty of Windsor blocks available, aluminum heads, intakes, and other power goodies. You can save another 90 pounds by getting an aluminum block.

Back when I was monitoring the Pony Express 90 race in Nevada, you should have heard the bow-tie boys howl when a guy showed up with a 428 FE powered Camaro. I figured turnabout was fair play  :whistling:

I'd thought about making a comment to the effect of having to reconsider your membership... but then I remembered we have a member in Europe swapping in a Jaguar drive train, and it's going really well (but at least Ford has a stake in Jaguar, if I remember right :whistling: )

But - why not?  Could be cool.  At the end of the day, it's the Mustang sheet metal that most people will ever see anyway, so as long as you don't plaster Chevy emblems everywhere, I supposed we could let it slide...

... just this once, though.

rofl

The thing is I will pretty much need a new exhuast, and my car is injected although I will probably go the fitech route anyway regardless of what I run. I was running megasquirt on a junky 2bbl cleveland. The engine is apart, the cam is wiped and I have Aussie heads built for it but I don't really want to spend money on a rotator or major block work considering the Cleveland block seems to only hold around 500-600 reliably. If I can re-use my bottom end I'll definitely stick with the Cleveland with a solid roller and be happy. If it becomes a full build I will likely go a different route. Windsors are good but I feel like LS's are a better starting point and from what I understand more plentiful.  My buddy also said there's ways to bolt a toploader to an LS and he seems pretty good with the swap stuff. He has a Bronco with a 4BT and an LTD with a 4.6 and seems to make anything work. The car is the first car I ever had and don't plan on selling it, I'm just doing progressively weirder things to it. I'd probably do something dumb like dress it up like a coyote to keep the heat off. Thanks for not revoking my membership on the spot haha.

This is my thoughts. LS cheap easy HP they fit in everything. However I tend to look at them as exactly that disposable hp, hang a turbo or a blower on a stocko LS make 1200-1600hp spank it's arse for 2000kms then go to the wreckers and repeat. A well built clevo or even a Windsor would have more of a sense of achievement and owner pride to me in a mustang and last for years. A cranky high winding clevo will certainly get your nuts clacking.

I am a chevy guy if I was going LS it would be a Lsx454r or better still Sb2. However at the end of the day your car your choice

To me anything you're going to put your foot down with is a crap shoot. I like things that are cheap to put back together. I rebuilt my coyote and spenta good amount in just the torque to yield bolts for the cams. 

Blasphemy!

No chevy in a FORD!

No chevy in a FORD !!!!

+1

Hopefully the body doesn't reject it 

Personally I think the LS swap could be neat.  It is a great engine.  From a practicality, cost and resale standpoint it is probably a bad idea.  But if you can do it with no hacking or beating I see it as a harmless way to have a reliable injected engine.  I would love to see it done, and see all the of the posts as the project went along.

I'm hoping it would be a removable swap that wouldn't require anything permanent. I'm actually surprised I haven't found anyone who has done it.

haha, I thought I was on my Jeep board.  The LS swap is kind of popular with the FSJ crowd.  Jeeps that look like this:



Both easier and more complicated in an old Jeep.  Easier because some companies make things like engine mounts, more complicated because of the transfer case and front/rear drive shafts.

I keep talking myself out of it for the jeep.  The expense just isn't worth it since the Jeep runs fine now and I just don't drive it much.  An LS swap would allow me to easily run an OD transmission.  I would also gain fuel injection (which is good for Jeeps that you take off road) and of course horse power.

But in the Jeep world when going off road reliability is key.  The LS engine is reliable but all of the custom engineering to make it work isn't.  Simple things like routing the wiring can cause issues.  So at this time I am still keeping it simple.   And it's kind of fun to run with the new rigs while sporting a 71 Jav engine and a carb.

So back to the question about the mustang.  I wouldn't do it.  Not because of any blasphamy but because of cost.  I think there are other options that would keep the cost lower but give similar results.

What about a 4bt for the Jeep?  :angel: The Cleveland is not a cheap engine to build, and the cost of a Windsor swap would be (arguably) close in my estimation.

 

[will e]

4bt's are also a popular swap for the FSJ jeeps. Some go 6bt's but the extra weight adds all kinds of complications. For now I am happy with my 71 Jav 401 tucked under the hood.

And at least you are not talking about a diesel swap into the mustang. Now that I would have a hard time getting behind.

 

[Fraz2112]

Blasphemy!

No chevy in a FORD!

Agreed

 

[LCB1]

Don't tell anyone, but I considered this swap myself. I could not find a out of the box kit for our years, so I would have to pay someone for fabrication. After adding up the cost of acquiring the engine, ECU, drivetrain, fabrication and other parts, I could easily stroke my 351W and build equal amount of hp. Good luck with whatever way you go.

 

[Silverback]

You know, I belong to a few groups that "LS swap" everything, and it annoys the heck out of me for some reason. Like I have a few 3rd gen f-body (camaro/firebired, originally came with chevy V8's in it), and I'm not sure why an LS swap in those bothers me. OTOH, I have seriously considered an LS swap in my '71 Mach 1 and it doesn't bother me as much.

If I did it I would make it all bolt in (I've done a few swaps like that, the one that was the biggest hassle to build mounts was a Cadillac 500 in a '67 Lemans, the mounts were almost 8" off the original Poncho mount location and the block is significantly wider), likely use a 4L80e or TH400 transmission (they can be built pretty much bullet proof, and I have a long history of having engines that last forever and constantly replacing transmissions/axles) and probably use Megasquirt or similar engine managment (I've done 3 'squirted cars). I'd probably turbocharge it also, though a high winding LS could get you into the 10's or even the 9's reliably if you want to build something fast.

For those of you saying that there are Ford options that can be done cheaper I'd like to know what. I'd feel as weird putting a windsor in my Mach as a LS, and a serious Cleveland build is $$$ (My car is an original 4bbl/C6/track pack car, so I'd save the engine if I did and oddball swap). If you shop around you might be able to find a whole LS drivetrain for $1000-2000 (at worst you can buy a beater work truck for that kind of money, steal the drivetrain and part out the rest). I have an extra Megasquirt and probably everything I'd need to build the fuel system sitting around, but if I didn't you could find a megasquirt and comble the fuel system together for $400-600. Power adders will run roughly the same on either engine, packaging will be harder on the Cleveland, so that's a wash or slight advantage LS. So I'm pretty sure I could have a running LS drivetrain in my Mach for well under $2000 (about $2000 with some horse trading if I had to buy the parts that I already have), and I'm pretty sure I couldn't build a comparable Cleveland for the same. You can get into haggling about converters/clutches, OD... but the costs will be about a wash doing the same stuff ford/chevy, until you get nicer stuff where the ford stuff will cost way more than the chevy (until you get to the top shelf stuff which again will be a wash).

FWIW, there's a few easy ways to get odd engine/tranny combinations bolted together, one of the slicker ones is that mcleod has a modular bellhousing system, and then you just need to work out a clutch spline/input shaft/bearing combination. There are existing adapters to go ford/chevy or chevy/ford engine/trans... I know someone running a cleveland based engine with a chevy auto trans behind it in a Firebird...

 

[flstf09]

Why would you feel weird putting a Windsor in one?Didn't they come with 302's in them?This whole LS swap thing is just like every street rod having a SBC in it,monkey see monkey do or sheep following the herd.If cost is such a big concern wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy an LS equipped camaro or maybe start rodding Yugos,they are cheap.

 

[Don C]

Back in the true hot rodding days it didn't bother me to see a 327, a hemi, a Cadillac, or anything else in a Ford body. It was understandable. These hot rodders had imagination and put in the work to accomplish something.

Just because they're (LSs) cheap and easy doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned. I agree with others, I consider it blasphemy to stick an LS in any Ford. If cost is that much of a concern why have a classic car? They're not cheap to build or maintain.

 

[Mister 4x4]

I'm still more of a "keep it in the family" kinda guy.  The AMC 401 in the Jeep is a perfect example of why - everything fits (of course, all AMC transmissions fit all AMC engines - so, engine swaps are a snap - I have an AMC 360 from a '78 Wagoneer with a TC727 automatic from an '82 Wagoneer for my CJ-7... which will happen someday - and it'll all drop right in with the Dana300 transfer case and some drive shaft modification - no Novak or Adaptec plates or anything of the sort).

I get a little annoyed when I hear the term "LS swap" whenever anybody mentions improving their power.  It's so commonplace now that it almost seems 'lazy' to me, even though I know adapting a GM engine to a non-GM vehicle is probably anything but 'lazy,' or cheap for that matter.  For some things it's really cool to do an LS swap (a 4-cylinder import, or a V6 coupe American car, or a Volvo station wagon, or even an older GM hot rod or muscle car), but for other makes/models of already established muscle cars - I'm not so keen on.

Having said that, I still stand by my earlier comments.

 

[MeanMachine]

Pushrod Ford....yes. Even coyote/roadrunner...ok

LS?....no way for me.